There is no Poland without the Church!

Isn't this the guy who claims that he brought people back to life, among other very dubious things?

Not sure why you'd promote him on here as being a good example.

Hahaha. 40,000 turned up to see this guy, while 60,000 turned up to see some enactment of the Battle of Grunwald. :D

Does that mean that more people are interested in history than Catholicism?

Yes that is very strange. I just returned from the city center a short while ago, and I spent most afternoon there and didn't notice anything?

I was in Church this morning (family thing) and the priest said something rather interesting to me personally. He said nobody should feel obligated to come, but if we come it should be entertaining and interesting. What do you think he meant?

Indeed. Even by traditionalist Catholic standards, he's way out there.


That's actually a pretty high number for a fringe religious figure. He must be either rather charismatic, or have superb PR, or both. I highly doubt that even Rydzyk could draw a crowd of 40,000 these days. And no other religious figure in Poland could even come close.

Yes, that's the bloke.


/2015/05/24/jesus-pales-in-comparison

From what I've read, he's exactly the kind of guy that most normal Catholics are warned to not listen to. Even Fronda.pl seems to be rather confused about him.

There was a lot of advertising - I stumbled across it randomly, and it seems as if it's been promoted as a kind of Lednica event.

From what I can see, he's like a Catholic Joel Osteen. Ugh.

He seems to be totally unknown outside of Poland.

Could Polonius perhaps explain his support for this guy?

But who the hell is he anyway? Just another charlatan that's turned up in Poland and managed (through slick PR) to convince people to give him 2 million złoty for a one day event?

Where should he be known best if not in par excellence (desptie your idiotic protests!) CATHOLIC POLAND? Rather than answering in what other EU country could anything but a sporting event or rock concert or the pope himself draw such a following, you (as usual) tried to derail things by saying last time he attracted 80,000 of 100,000 or whatever. Maybe 10 years earlier 1.3 million turned out. But that wasn't the question.Your primitive, simplistic, naive and feeble attempts to derail he discussion whenever you lack substantive arguments (and that's nearly always!) and latch onto some peripheral point like Sunday head counts have been thoroughly seen through by all on PF. Eversyone's got you pegged as the typical Google-based psuedo-intellectual.

Perhaps in the countries where more people bother doing the very minimum required by the Vatican?


I'd certainly like to know why Polonius thinks it's great that some bloke who claims to have raised 26 people from the dead took 40+zl each from tens of thousands of Poles.

Polonius, have you got any idea what you're going on about? The guy claims to be a faith healer, he claims to have brought back to life more people than Jesus... come on :/


But it's not a good thing! The guy is very much on the fringe of the RCC - even the Church itself seems to be rather divided. If you mentioned the rather good Lednica, we wouldn't have an argument - but you're instead choosing to highlight a charlatan of the worst kind.

But anyway, I'll humour you.

rt.com/news/197296-catalonia-independence-protest-elections - 110,000 on the streets for Catalan independence

ucb.co.uk/content/united-prayer-event-calls-christians-wembley - 65-70000 Christians at Wembley Stadium, London

pinknews.co.uk/2006/06/30/gay-community-awaiting-europride - half a million at London Europride

More?

This is the first time I ever heard of him. I was not reviewing his presentations which I had never heard but that fact that a Catholic retreatmaster could attract such a following in Poland. So far only the Jehovah's Witnesses coull fill a stadium with their religious message. Also the pope, but that's a different category.

Honestly, Polonius, he's not the kind of Catholic we want here. That stuff about healing (I'm open minded about Lourdes, Fatima, etc - so I'm not against the idea) is just surreal, but the stuff about raising people from the dead is utterly inexcusable. I'm not sure if he's saying this stuff in Poland too, but he seems to be your typical Pentecostal type dressed up as a Catholic. To me, he's the kind of person that can do much more harm than good - people will use him as an excuse to ridiculous and mock Catholicism, even though he's very much on the fringe.

Lednica is a much better event to discuss - by all accounts, even by non-Catholics, it's a wonderful event that steers clear of anything that might be dubious. And yes, it is remarkable that a clearly religious event in Europe can attract the regular numbers that Lednica does.

Hi! the guy claims to be a healer, it is extremely dangerous as a lot of idots may stop their medical treatments to follow what the charlatan says. I bet that he has drawn all the old "farts" whose no.1 priority is their health.

Very dangerous and on top of that, the guy gets rich out of people's stupididy.

How can Poland (the guy needs a visa) and the city of Warsaw accept this?

PS: Also, how much money from taxpayers' pockets (police....)?

Better watch your step. The Bully Brits are sworn anti-clericals, Christophobes and Church-bashers so saying anything positve about Catholicism might face you with expuslion from the inner-sanctum of that unsavoury little clique..

Equally applies to you. I am pretty sure I can find dozens of incidents where you used these expressions in a single paragraph to describe people that don't agree with your particular agenda.

Yes but so is Polonius.

People that want to deprave youth and destroy the moral foudnations of society, you mean. How would YOU describe a band of Nazis?

Am I hearing the same "stara płyta" again?
So everyone that doesn't share your particularly disturbed cocktail of views is off to destroy society? Seriously man get help.

@Polonius: even is let's say 98% of Poles claim to be Catholics, catholicism is NOT compulsory in Poland.

Either some of them were award-winning good at going to fancy dress parties, or one could describe some of them as senior members of the RCC.

The above shows one of the many reasons that there is most certainly a Poland without the RCC.

Just because I may not agree with yoga meditation, vegan diets or herbal medicine nor be personally involved or promoting sports as healthier alternative to netsurfing, or natural food as free of chemicals as possible, or philately or, climbing and a host of other interests and causes, these thing do not pose a threat to society. I am opposed to whatever undermines the moral foundations of society. That includes the glamourisation of risky lifestyles, drugs, perversion, alcohol, unwed motherhood, parent-child conflicts and other counter-culture arrangements as lifestyle options. Also undermining the family and our society's Christian foundations and promoting in their place off-the-wall lifestyles and subcultures.

Plain and simple enough?

Sounds plain and simple, but remember, you want to oppose X because you think that X undermines the foundation of society, what is there to stop you at X? Maybe tomorrow you will want to oppose Y & Z and then A & B... Plain and simple enough?

As much as you like to believe or even claim otherwise, people that share the same views as yourself are increasingly in the minority (a trend that is happening in Poland as well). Did you ever stop and question yourself? Maybe think a little bit outside the box? Did you question what you believe are the foundations of society and are they really the foundations of society? Nobody wants you to become homosexual or change your gender. Nobody wants to stop you from going to Church or even raising your kids based on a belief system that you are comfortable with, and most certainly nobody is going to ever deny the validity of your "man + woman" marriage. The real question is, why do you want to inflict these pains upon others? What makes you think that you are right and they are wrong? More importantly, have you ever seen what happens to societies that take on intolerance as a way of life (which is exactly what you are promoting)?

No, it tells everyone not to tolerate evil. How does one know what evil is? The 10 Commandments make it plain. What about those who don't follow the 10 Commandments? They are the reason for so much misery, chaos and suffering in this world.

Wow, isn't that a totalitarian approach? Why would letters or whatnot addressed to somebody else given forcibly to the government. As if government was a medicine and the answer to all wrongs and ills. As if gov was doing such a great job as it is.

You're really confused with your rants against gov and such and then out of the blue you demand more power to be handed over to the gov. I guess it is due to the fact that you're obsessively afraid of a religion.

The fact that people complain to bishops not to the police is question of free choice by individual citizens. All you can do is try to persuade them otherwise or build the trust. Your totalitarian approach is way off. Hey have you fixed Antifa problem? No? So why you butting in into something that doesn't concern you?


They should just jump a lake. Useless morons.

If they contain evidence of a crime, they should go to prosecutors or the police.


Governments already have the 'power' (and the right, duty and obligation) to investigate crime. Concealing evidence (like a letter) relating to a crime is already illegal.

IF? It doesn't contain any evidence if somebody write something in a letter. IF somebody who wrote it has been a victim or a witness to a crime it is his duty to report it to the authorities. IF that was as simple as you say it wouldn't be even an issue.


Let them investigate all they want. Who is stopping them eh?

People here seems have no clue or talk without thinking just repeating some nonsense. A common denominator of those people is a fact that they are full of hate and are afraid of a religion and the Church. A good advice for all of you. Talk sense and stick to facts and what you know instead of listing to rumor. As you let your imagination run wild it makes you look silly. Rather than hide behind 'concern' be honest and just spew all the hate and prejudice against the Church you holing inside without any excuses.

Ah, there seem to be a third kind. Simpletons, they hear something on the media and they just go with it.

Letters (and emails, texts, online messages etc) are all evidence if they relate to an alleged crime under investigation.


The police and prosecutors do investigate. Where there are perceived failings (like an undue respect for the RCC) there are always civil courts (where the burden of proof is far lower).

IF they relate to an alleged crime UNDER investigation. Yes. I agree but that is not what you posted before.


So they are doing their job. Good to know. There is no need for some special anti-Church anti--freedom legislation.

Or any crime. If a document refers to a crime that has happened, whether it's yet to be investigated or whether it's been investigated before and closed. Evidence is evidence.


No 'anti-church' legislation is needed. Simply make sure the 'church' follow the law like any other organisation, ensure safeguarding procedures, disclse any evidence about or records of crimes against children, and not attempt to intervene when senior 'clergy' are prosecuted as accessories for not reporting crimes that they are aware of and all will be well.

Nah, only of a crime or an alleged crime is under investigation. Those who are in a possession of some evidence must be aware that is an evidence, Again totalitarian mindset without understanding of the law.


Dough implied something of the kind.