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How will Poland be affected by WW3 which has now started


OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
23 Jan 2024 #61
I mentioned Syria because

LIAR..... as I clearly said, IRAQ.

Iran ups the ante against US, proxies strike Iraq military base with ballistic missiles.

Your brain is slipping in old age Rich.
Maybe some Prevagen would help your memory.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
23 Jan 2024 #62
Hey did you see where Britain may soon start the draft up to build their tiny military up in anticipation for WW3 ?
Private Milo and Lieutenant Lenka.
The British public will be called up to fight if the UK goes to war because the military is too small, the head of the Army is to warn.

General Sir Patrick Sanders will stress the need for the Government to "mobilise the nation" in the event of war with Russia in a speech on Wednesday.

Should be interesting to say the least.
jon357 74 | 21,940
24 Jan 2024 #63
General Sir Patrick Sanders

A good idea however he's talking about the young rather than either of those two.

I'd doubt it's likely to happen any time soon though.
mafketis 36 | 10,865
24 Jan 2024 #64
"mobilise the nation" in the event of war with Russia in a speech

Well the world is in the midst of a profound change of socio-political orders and those traditionally have been accompanied by major wars... (WW's I and II par exemple) there's some author (name Babbit IIRC) who suggested that the US was trying to prevent the kind of major, wasteful conflagation that usually accompanies such changes by keeping a bunch of smaller regional conflicts going (Syria, Congo, Yemen among others) to distract the energies of major players.

russia's eternal wounded narcissism could easily turn it into a conflagration....
jon357 74 | 21,940
24 Jan 2024 #65
to distract the energies of major players.

Sensible really. We're in dangerous times.

Britain may soon start the draft

I was just reading about General Sanders' forthcomig speech that you mentioned and he's saying nothing of the sort.

In fact he said he wouldn't support conscription in peace time. He's complaining (rightly and not for the first time) about slow army recruitment, outsourcing of their recruitment function to a private company and how picky they were and how many potential recruits are rejected.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,177
24 Jan 2024 #66
He's complaining (rightly and not for the first time)

In my experience it seems like army recruiters want only those THEY deem fit to serve at moments notice. Without the thought that Army training is meant to prepare them for what their looking for.

If army needs men with more muscles, then perform more drills to have more of them -.-

Instead of complaining that the draftees have no muscles and reject them. Not everybody knows how to train muscles well, how long or what type of food to eat best even.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
24 Jan 2024 #67
Britain may soon start the draft up to build their tiny military up in anticipation for WW3 ?

I was just reading about General Sanders' forthcomig speech that you mentioned and he's saying nothing of the sort.

Here, read it again.

The British public will be called up to fight if the UK goes to war because the military is too small, the head of the Army is to warn.

General Sir Patrick Sanders will stress the need for the Government to "mobilise the nation" in the event of war with Russia in a speech on Wednesday.

With the British Army being reduced to its smallest size for centuries, The Telegraph understands Gen Sir Patrick, who has been openly critical of troop cuts, wants British men and women to be prepared for a call-up if Nato goes to war with Putin.


msn.com/en-us/news/world/public-face-call-up-if-we-go-to-war-military-chief-warns/ar-BB1h9cWQ
Atch 23 | 4,057
24 Jan 2024 #68
Why don't we wait to hear the actual speech instead of what he's expected to say. Btw he expects war with Russia at some point in the next twenty years, not any time soon.
jon357 74 | 21,940
24 Jan 2024 #69
Here, read it again.

I did, and the article doesn't say that conscription is to be introduced or even anything like that.

He is against conscription, and for the record hasn't delivered the speech yet.

He is expected to warn that if we took part in a land war, the current level of recruitment may mean that we could have to take steps to address the conservatives' cuts in military strength. His beef is with the recruitment outsourcers and conservative politicians' concentration on cyberwarfare rather than traditional military forces.

If army needs men with more muscles, then perform more drills to have more of them -.-

That does make sense,.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
24 Jan 2024 #70
Btw he expects war with Russia at some point in the next twenty years, not any time soon.

Meaning it could be next year or sooner too.

Why don't we wait to hear the actual speech

You are in charge of that then Atch, let us know if there is any major differences in what he is expected to say and what he actually says.

Gen Sir Patrick, who will stand down as Chief of the General Staff in six months, will make his speech at the International Armored Vehicles expo in Twickenham.

Earlier this month The Telegraph revealed that the Navy has so few sailors it will have to decommission two warships to staff its new class of frigates.

Over the past year, 16,260 personnel have left the Armed Forces.
It comes as the forces struggle to retain female personnel amid a sex harassment crisis engulfing the military to no surprise.
This year, having been given the task of recruiting 9,813 people, Capita admitted it has so far only recruited 5,000.
Keep us posted, Ms. Atch
Novichok 5 | 7,853
24 Jan 2024 #71
How will Poland be affected by WW3 which has now started
If WW3 includes Russia and the US as enemies, Poland will be like Bikini Atoll with cockroaches as the only survivors.
If WW3 will have Russia and the US as allies killing the invading migrant hordes, the sun will shine bright and the white race will be saved.
jon357 74 | 21,940
24 Jan 2024 #72
He's now delivered the speech.

He made it clear that he doesn't support conscription and talked about an army reserve.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
24 Jan 2024 #73
Do you have a source for that ?
News Feed ?
jon357 74 | 21,940
24 Jan 2024 #74
The Daily Telegraph. It's behind a paywall however the report didn't say that much.

He did point out that a "citizen army" can help win wars and that we've seen that in Ukraine and he also praised army expansion in some of the countries in eastern and Central Europe.

He stressed that he opposes conscription.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
24 Jan 2024 #75
He stressed that he opposes conscription.

Did the Daily telegraph print that ?
jon357 74 | 21,940
24 Jan 2024 #76
Presumably they're printing it now. I read the app.

The exact paragraph is:
" The Army chief, who would not support conscription, said: "Our predecessors of course failed to perceive the implications of the so-called July crisis in 1914, and stumbled into the most ghastly of wars.

"We can't afford to make the same mistake today. Ukraine really matters.."


The key part of the article was:

Sir Patrick suggested Britain should "train and equip" a "citizen Army" to ready the country for a potential land war and urged the Government to be "clear-eyed" about Russia, which he said was spending nearly 40 per cent of public expenditure on defence.

.....

Speaking at the International Armoured Vehicles conference in Twickenham on Wednesday, Sir Patrick said: "Ukraine brutally illustrates that regular armies start wars, citizen armies win them
."
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
24 Jan 2024 #77
Sir Patrick suggested Britain should "train and equip"

Does that mean everyone in Britain will be given a gun and ammo to protect their families with ?
jon357 74 | 21,940
24 Jan 2024 #78
No., There's no question about doing anything so foolish, and the thought that someone in his position would even toy with such an idea is risible.

He was talking at an armoured vehicles trade show attended largely by other army bods about his vision for expanding the TA and his frustration at regular army recruitment being outsourced to a for-profit organisation.

The news report you read was lifted from a newspaper popular with elderly former army officers who like the lack of gun crime in our society and don't favour a weakening of firearms laws either. If anything, they favour far stronger gaol sentences for possessing such things.
Atch 23 | 4,057
25 Jan 2024 #79
Does that mean everyone in Britain will be given a gun and ammo to protect their families with ?

No. What Anders means by a citizen army is basically an army reserve. The units would be equipped, not the individuals. My own grandfather was in the British army reserve for eight years and did regular training, extra courses etc. He was called up when war broke out. He was a proper trained soldier already, that's what Anders means. It's also essential for a solid core of NCOS which are really the backbone of the British army. A good Corporal can quickly be promoted to Sergeant in the event of war.
Tacitus 2 | 1,393
25 Jan 2024 #80
I doubt any of the Western European countries will resort to mass conscription. As it is their armies struggle already to equip the soldiers they have and fighting a full-scale war won't be very popular to begin with. They'll end up sending a few divisions (which is the current NATO planning) and a disproportionate amount of high-tech weapons and defense systems, but Poland and the Baltics need to be prepared to shoulder at least 50% of the required man power.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
25 Jan 2024 #81
but Poland and the Baltics need to be prepared to shoulder at least 50% of the required manpower.

I don't think that Poland taking the burden of defending the Baltic is a fair proposition. Germany already made a lot of promises to them and is selling them their tanks, taking most of the money upfront and political favors it would be best if Germany lived up to their promise and put up a strong military presence in the Baltic in times of need.

Seems to be Germany is keen on grabbing and consuming all possible benefits while shrinking from their duties and trying to shift others - on Poland this time. No can do!
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,024
25 Jan 2024 #82
@Tacitus
Poland has done a great job buying equipment for a war, but the numbers of soldiers being trained is not enough. Bodies fighting win wars, not equipment sitting in storage because there is no one to operate it.

Germany has the production capability to really make things happen. Why they are not, is simply not explainable.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
25 Jan 2024 #83
He made it clear that he doesn't support conscription and talked about an army reserve.

This is what we are hearing on this side of the pond.
Britain's top military brass this week suggested that civilians may be conscripted to join the armed forces in the event that a war breaks out with Russia.

msn.com/en-us/news/world/who-would-be-exempt-from-conscription-if-we-went-to-war-with-russia/ar-BB1heKNu
jon357 74 | 21,940
25 Jan 2024 #84
Britain's top military brass this week suggested that civilians may be conscripted

He didn't though.

It's all covered in the posts above. If you've not read them yet, they're worth a look since they cover the talk he gave.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
25 Jan 2024 #85
He didn't though.

He did though
Quote: Britain's top military brass this week suggested that civilians may be conscripted to join the armed forces in the event that a war breaks out with Russia.

He also said that although it is unlikely that conscription will be enforced in the UK - it is possible that women could get drafted, too.
jon357 74 | 21,940
25 Jan 2024 #86
@johnny reb
Your quote actually comes from a news article rather than the talk he gave.

He talked about the army being brought up to strength to avoid such a thing. He also talked about the value of the TA since he opposes conscription.
Tacitus 2 | 1,393
25 Jan 2024 #87
is a fair proposition

Poland, the Baltics and Finnland are now frontline states in a confrontation with Russia, and NATO doctrine has always assigned those states the task to field a large part of the conventional forces with other countries sending a few additional divisions. I seem to recall that Western European countries have agreed to field 8 combat ready divisions by 2030. If Russia invades Poland with say 800k soldiers, then the latter will have to equalize the difference in numbers.

while shrinking from their duties and trying to shift others

Roles have just changed. Germany can now play the part of France and the UK during the Cold War while our Eastern Neighbours will serve as first line of defence. Who knows, if Kaliningrad and Belarus become independent one day, then Poland might switch roles as well.

is selling them their tanks

That and other stuff like modern air-defence-systems. But that is relevant how?
Novichok 5 | 7,853
26 Jan 2024 #88
If Russia invades Poland with say 800k soldiers, then the latter will have to equalize the difference in numbers.

What If Russia invaded Poland with 14 million soldiers - the maximum a country can deploy?
What if Russia invades Mongolia, Nepal, Canada, and Brazil?

I called Putin an hour ago and he said you are nuts but asked me not to quote him.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
26 Jan 2024 #89
the task to field a large part of the conventional forces

It doesn't mean Poland has to send troops into the Baltic. Germany promised them troops and is already cashing in for it. I only say they should deliver on their promises and stop asking Poland to take it over from them.

--
Tacitus 2 | 1,393
26 Jan 2024 #90
@Novichok

What If Russia invaded Poland with 14 million soldiers

I mentioned 800k soldiers because that is plausible estimate of the number of Russian soldiers involved in the invasion of Ukraine.

@Ironside

and is already cashing in for it.

All that is required from Lithuania is to prepare appropiate barracks and other facilities which can be used to house the soldiers. That is hardly "cashing in", those facilities still belong to the Lithuanian state and may one day be used again for a different purpose.

If Russia invades the Baltic states, all NATO countries will be required to defend them. It is not possible to station enough troops there to succesfully defend against a Russian invasion since the countries are simply too small.

And I strongly suspect that Poland may want to make a large effort to defend them, if only because it is better to fight Russia in a different country than your own.


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