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How will Poland be affected by WW3 which has now started


cms neuf 1 | 1,782
29 Jan 2024 #151
He's in jail for speaking his mind

The Udmurtian way of life

Here in Poland we can say what we want about the government
Bobko 25 | 2,002
29 Jan 2024 #152
He's in jail for speaking his mind

Hmmm, maybe that, but also organizing a party which includes some people that organized assasination attempts on Russian officials and have done time
For it.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
29 Jan 2024 #153
Here in Poland we can say what we want about the government

Read the Polish First Amendment and look for "unless", "however", "except", and "hurt feeling"...
mafketis 36 | 10,860
29 Jan 2024 #154
Polish First Amendment

no such thing....
Novichok 5 | 7,853
29 Jan 2024 #155
I know. That's why that "freedom of speech" in Europe is such a joke...
Miloslaw 19 | 4,777
29 Jan 2024 #156
It is, but that is true of America too.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
29 Jan 2024 #157
No. For my posts, I would be serving time in Europe, but not in the US.

Here we go:

Hitler was a great German leader and his fault was that he didn't murder enough. Germany would benefit greatly if he was alive today.

Or:

Muslim migrants are cancer and should all be deported from the UK ASAP.

Post those two in Germany and the UK and tell me how it went.

A typical evasive Euro move is always: Why should I post what I don't believe is true?

To be ahead of this response, a reminder...We are discussing "freedom of speech", not Hitler and Muslims. Those are only examples of what I am free to post without criminal consequences and you are not.
Miloslaw 19 | 4,777
29 Jan 2024 #158
No. For my posts, I would be serving time in Europe, but not in the US.

Wrong!

Neither of your examples would lead to a custodial sentence in The UK but they might in some of the more "Liberal" states in the USA.

People in glass houses and all that....
Novichok 5 | 7,853
29 Jan 2024 #159
Milo, you are a nice guy but you forgot that I am never, ever wrong.

Quoting from city-journal.org/article/gone-to-rot...

The U.K now has some of the most authoritarian restrictions on free speech in Europe. The basis for much of Britain's censorious legislation is the concept of protected characteristics-identities deemed vulnerable and enshrined in the Equality Act of 2010. Initially, that law had a noble intention: to fight prejudice and discrimination against minority groups. Unfortunately, the protection of a select group of people in the name of "equality" has made equality under the law no longer tenable, and the Equality Act itself has wound up chilling freedom of speech. Engaging in whatever authorities may deem hate speech can bring police to your door.

This threat is not theoretical. According to official statistics, the police in England and Wales recorded 124,000 hate crimes between March 2020 to March 2021-a 9 percent increase from the year before and more than double that of five years ago.

Proliferating identity groups continue to seek protection from offense under the law. Last December, the Law Commission published recommendations on the reform of hate-crime law. It suggests expanding the concept of hate crime to include prejudice against the disabled and LGBT people.

Glaswegian Joseph Kelly, though, saw things differently. He tweeted a photo of the World War II veteran with the words "The only good brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella, buuuuuurn." Offensive to many, no doubt. Kelly deserved critical scorn-but not prosecution. Authorities recently convicted him of sending a "grossly offensive" tweet under Section 127 of the 2003 Communications Act, which makes it against the law to send "by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character." What about free speech? Adrian Cottam, the sheriff who convicted Kelly, offered this answer: "The prosecution does interfere with freedom of expression, but it is a necessary interference."


None of the above would be posssible in the US.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
30 Jan 2024 #160
Quoting from cato.org/blog/germanys-attack-free-speech

In Germany criminalization of hate speech and fake news is seen as a legitimate way to protect democracy and the historical truth against onslaught. That's why a mainstream German politician and member of the European Parliament a couple of years ago countered my criticism of legislation against Holocaust denial by insisting that "European citizens have a constitutional right to the truth." The frightening implications of this statement didn't bother him at all.

In Germany and other European democracies the right to free speech is just one among many rights that has to be balanced against other rights, values and considerations, be it public order, dignity, democracy, religious sensibilities, security, equality and so on and so forth.

In the U.S. the First Amendment's protection of speech cannot be balanced against other rights. That principle has served the US well.

The Soviet Union made it a serious crime to distribute false and slanderous information defaming the Soviet social and political system. Such criminal laws were widely used by the Kremlin to silence dissidents, human rights activists, religious movements, and groups in the Soviet republics fighting for national independence.


The short version: Europe is only a notch better than the USSR, Compared to the US, you suck. Lucky me, I am an American - in the US.
cms neuf 1 | 1,782
30 Jan 2024 #161
Nope - all nonsense

Everywhere west of Terespol you are free to publicly disagree with your freely elected leaders

In Udmurtia it can get you 25 years in Siberia

Restrictions on free speech in most EU countries are the subject of vigorous debate - usually they are there to prevent people like Crno causing fear to minorities. I'm a free speech absolutist myself but it's obviously nonsense to compare a backwards society like Udmurtia with advanced nations like Poland or Romania
Tacitus 2 | 1,392
30 Jan 2024 #162
Why do you expect them to disarm

I do not. I am just holding them to their word. They publically entertained this idea when it gave them good publicity, and then backed down. As did quite members of that so-called Leopard coalition, who acted similiarly or suddenly needed a lot more convincinf. Imagine the backlash if Scholz had done something like that.

You claimed that Scholz made empty promises, while I pointed out that he kept all pledges and was careful not to raise expectations he thought to be unrealistic.

Poland didn't stop,

What new commitments did Poland make in the last few months and are those financed by them or the EU?

we don't have enough stuff

While this may or may not be the case, it is certainly at odds to what Polish leaders said at the beginning.

As for farmers, there is no reason

Well, one reason: Solidarity with Ukraine. Poland was insistent that other countries cut their energy ties with Russia, no matter the damage to their economy (and then kept receiving fossil fuel longer than others). But once the Polish economy was hurting, things changed. Kinda like with the weapon deliveries: No mew deliveries once it meant that it would have bear the costs on their own.

Which personally I find perfectly understandable. But it is irritating that someone can defend this position and make empty accusations against Germany and its' supposed lack of help and solidarity.

In stiffing Polish development

This whole conspiracy nonsense. Poland has benefitted massively from cooperating economically with Germany. No doubt there are areas where both countries compete or have differing interests, but that is natural in capitalism.

It is in our interest that Poland gets wealthy and preferably soon starts paying into the EU funds instead of receiving them.

The government that stifled Poland's growth was PiS because due to them it would have missed out on potentially 100bn money from the EU.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
30 Jan 2024 #163
Everywhere west of Terespol you are free to publicly disagree with your freely elected leaders

...but not to offend and insult minorities...

You see, stupid, I can offend and insult any group I want in America and never fear being charged criminally. That's why we have the First Amendment - to offend and insult...

You are so cute when trying to smuggle that kind of crap past me...
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
31 Jan 2024 #164
I can offend and insult any group I want in America and never fear being charged criminally.

However if you had a brain you would understand that if you offended the wrong group or person here in the U.S.A. that you could face what is called 'revenge consequences' with far worse consequences than being criminally charged. :-o

And in your case, I don't think that would surprise a single person here on this forum.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
31 Jan 2024 #165
I am just holding them to their word.

What exactly are you talking about? Poland sends and is sending a lot of stuff, that is not the issue here. I'm talking about Germany It took them long enough to come around to help Ukraine but now they play political propaganda games by publishing charts showing equipment that they promised not the one they have already sent to Ukraine.

That is what I'm talking about in case your government-controlled media in Germany fails to inform you.
-------
Also, if someone has 250$ in his wallet and gives 100$ to charity, then you have someone with 600$ in his wallet that gives 150$ to charity? Question who is giving more?

----

Solidarity with Ukraine.

But not by destroying our strategic resources like agriculture. Ukrinaie ologary international firms producing grain and other agricultural stuff are playing dirty and everybody knows it. It hurts other farmers as well, all farmers in the EU and you have German French, and Dutch farmers staging huge protests across the country, and rightly so.

The EU Commission and Geman government are bad sh'y crazy and act as if they want to destroy the EU food-producing sector.
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This whole conspiracy nonsense.

What conspiracy? They protest and file complaints against building infrastructure on the Polish side of the border. Where is conspiracy in that I don't know but I'm sure to know that it is not a theory because those things happen as we speak and anyone can check it.

----
By the way, If Germany wants to be a regional power player they should be ready to pay up a lot and invest a lot and change their attitude, otherwise don't bother, you can't just get along for a ride with your bullying, corrupting and laying your way out tactics.

---

100bn money from the EU.

Keep it, I would rather that all legal, underwhelmed, and financial obstruction made by the old EU members to make it difficult for Polish firms to succeed in their market were abolished.
Tacitus 2 | 1,392
1 Feb 2024 #166
@Ironside

that is not the issue here

Stopping new pledges in a war of attrition that may last for several more years is a big issue.

And it becomes embarrassing if your government liked to boast about their contribution.

play political propaganda games by publishing charts

That is a reaction to the intense scrutiny German aid to Ukraine received. It is easier refute accusations of inaction if you can point to the delivered weapons and the steady flow of equipment Ukraine will receive over the next few years.

They protest and file complaints

Enviromentalists are doing the same in Germany too. You don't know the controversy every time an airport is enlarged or a river made accessible for large ships.

And let us be completely honest here, how PiS has handled the Oder disaster was not helpful at the least. You can be sure that any project that may have an impact on Germany will from on be very, very closely monitored.

If Germany wants to be a regional power player

Does not look like we have a choice on the matter. I am sure most Germans would rather see the USA take the lead, or alternatively a more European approach. But since neither are looking feasible and the option would be to let Eastern Europe fall to Russia, it looks like it will up to Berlin.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
1 Feb 2024 #167
I am sure most Germans would rather see the USA take the lead,

You are lying again.

You don't want the USA to "lead". You want the US to bleed - men and money - because Euros are now trembling pussies.
jon357 74 | 21,937
1 Feb 2024 #168
the same in Germany too. You don't know the controversy every time an airport is enlarged

We have much the same in Britain.

Deluded people from affluent country towns who go to "independent coffee shops". They protest against efficient agriculture and what they call the "old industries" or anything do with the defence industry not even realising or caring that for millions of people in urban areas such industries are current rather than 'old', that we're one of the world's major industrial economies, an oil/gas exporter, that in the defence/aerospace sector we're the fourth largest producer in the world after China, the US and r*SSia and that their nice affluent middle class lifestyles are funded by the Labour of people working in those sectors.

Putler and Micron are probably doing dark PR to influence them.

alternatively a more European approach

A global approach is needed to tackle a global problem. The Yanks always want to try and lead since without a stable Europe/Middle East, they have very few export markets.
OP johnny reb 47 | 7,057
1 Feb 2024 #169
- because Euros are now trembling pussies.

Takes one to know one.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
1 Feb 2024 #170
The Yanks always want to try and lead ...

Is everybody here a shameless liar? What the fvck is the matter with you, Euro parasites?

I didn't meet one American who wanted "to lead". Everybody here wants out of NATO and the UN - the two most useless to us organizations. We pay and pay and get sh*it in return...

without a stable Europe/Middle East

Hey, stupid, our main exports are arms and wars so we love unstable. When things are stable, the DC will make them unstable, See Iraq, Libya, and Ukraine.

A global approach is needed to tackle a global problem.

Why when "global" is mentioned, every parasite is looking at the US for men and money?
jon357 74 | 21,937
1 Feb 2024 #171
parasites?

I didn't meet one American

We're talking about their government, not the trash you meet.

Buzz off.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
1 Feb 2024 #172
embarrassing if your government liked to boast about their contribution.

Well, I don't like it either but on the other hand, the German Government took a step forward and is boasting about stuff they WILL send to Ukraine not what they have already contributed. Is that a brazen embarrassment?

---

Enviromentalists are doing the same in Germany too.

Those who protest are not only green terrorists but local government outlets too.
-----

Does not look like we have a choice on the matter.

Look, I don't say I don't have a problem with it but I'm a realist and don't think that Germany should have a go at it again. What I mean to say is that you need to do it properly this time and that would require a change of your attitude towards Poland and Eastern Europe and also you need to get ready to pay up a lot, you need to invest in many things to achieve anything but a big mess they will blow up into your face again.

In my opinion, Gemrnas are not cut mentally to be a leading power or a world power but prove me wrong.
---
However, you need to spot that creziness with the EU killing European framing, and stop nonsense with green energy which is a known scam for the very rich to get richer and for Europe's development and economy to go down. That is clear and even farmers in Germany and all over the EU can see it.

The current liberal elite is not fit for its role and should go!

The Yanks always want to try and lead since without a stable Europe/Middle East,

Without Europe they are F, to put it short as a global power and they can go back to picking on banana eaters in South America.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
1 Feb 2024 #173
We're talking about their government,

Are you talking about the DC criminals that gave "the trash" 34 trillion debt, 1.6 trillion annual deficit, and 3 million illegals a year?
FU, Euro parasite...

Without Europe they are F, to put it short as a global power

If Europe became the Euro Sea, the US would exhale and prosper.

As far as that "global" crap...Read the US Constitution and find "global" anything and why we should be taxed to protect your "global" Euro asses.

BTW, the Euro sense of self-importance is a recognized mental disorder.
jon357 74 | 21,937
1 Feb 2024 #174
Are you talking about

We're talking about matters thousands of miles away from you, not the internal affairs of your adopted country.

boasting about stuff they WILL send to Ukraine not what they have already contributed

They made a lot of promises yet at one time they were actually trying to block other countries from helping. It remains unclear whose side they are really on.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
1 Feb 2024 #175
We're talking about matters thousands of miles away from you,

We're talking about their government,

"Their government" is not thousands of miles away, stupid...
jon357 74 | 21,937
1 Feb 2024 #176
green terrorists

We've not seen that yet however the current climate protests are self defeating ones by spoilt bourgeoisie. They usually fail to appreciate the importance of heavy industry. A dangerous thing in the run up to a j mg skit war.

is not thousands

Not from you. It is however thousands of kilometres away from Poland and from most people on here.

stupid

Moderate your language. It does not reflect well on you.
Tacitus 2 | 1,392
1 Feb 2024 #177
@jon357

A global approach is needed to tackle a global problem.

Call me a pessimist, but speaking of a global approach when even the West is no longer united in their support seems like wishful thinking. My impression is that many Non-Europeans are viewing this as a European problem that should be solved by the Europeans. Today's decision to approve 50bn in aid for Ukraine is important in that regard, but quite a few countries have either reduced their support or are not contributing appropiately in the first place.

It remains unclear whose side they are really on.

That is PiS KaczyƄski niveau, far below your usual level.

@Ironside

Gemrnas are not cut mentally to be a leading power or a world power

Neither is in Germany's power to begin with, and I would argue it is not necessary to be one for the Ukraine war. The European countries should be strong enough to sufficiently support Ukraine and this is the issue Berlin should be working on. First by stepping up regarding German aid, which has happened. And then by working diplomatically and reminding others that they need to do their own part as well. Which is now happening.
jon357 74 | 21,937
1 Feb 2024 #178
West

We'll have to look beyond the west.

far below your usual level

True though, given that the government there blocked another country for supplying Ukraine with arms by incoming a legalistic contract clause, and have apparently withheld other arms for no good reason.

Plus of course Schroeder who may as well be part of the Moscow politburo and of course some senior figures in the military and in politics who have supported russia, including some who have spied for them.

A world war is precisely that. A country who started and lost the last two is on the basis of their form with world wars far from the best judge of the next one.

We'll need to look far for allies, and nobody trusts Micron etc.
Novichok 5 | 7,853
1 Feb 2024 #179
It is however thousands of kilometres away from Poland and from most people on here.

Read #171. Slowly...and try to understand what YOU wrote.
jon357 74 | 21,937
1 Feb 2024 #180
If that made sense rather than just being pointless contrarianism,..


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