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Abortion still under control in Poland


dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
29 Oct 2020 #1,651
ancient living fossils are taking up too much space in the political realm, get them out of here!

Exactly, hence the issue we have here today, totally out of touch with the people.
mafketis 24 | 9,384
29 Oct 2020 #1,652
It's obvious that JK doesn't have the slightest connection with the priorities of voters under 50 or so.... I always say that ruling parties should be changed regularly (and heads of states should be changed every 10 years at most on average) for just that reason...

So many problems are caused by fossiled and alienated leaders from Putin to Xi to Erdogan to Merkel throw them out and bring in new people.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
29 Oct 2020 #1,653
A liberal democrat? Or an authoritarian in the PiS mold...

If you take a closer look will surely recognize him as a model democrat:

- in the USSR there was only one valid party to vote for that is Communists (Socialists)

- all the other political options, especially those on the right, were called "fascists"

- he also believed that capitalism is bad and provided substantial aid (especially in form of AK47 and RPG7) to third world countries :-)

Clearly, that's where the Western liberal democracy is heading.
jon357 66 | 17,068
29 Oct 2020 #1,654
a model democrat:

Who doesn't care what the people think.

- all the other political options, especially those on the right, were called "fascists"

Were they really?

capitalism is bad

Nothing controversial or unusual about that...
Spike31 2 | 2,110
29 Oct 2020 #1,655
Were they really?

fivefeetoffury.com/2015/01/22/stalin-championed-the-idea-that-all-of-his-political-opponents-should-be-dubbed-fascists/
jon357 66 | 17,068
29 Oct 2020 #1,656
You think that's a reliable source?

Hahaha.

Jaro's TV station however freely sprays the word around against any moderates who call out the PiSuarzy...
Spike31 2 | 2,110
29 Oct 2020 #1,657
It's just a source. Check those facts in other sources to confirm it. I'm not going to do all the heavy lifting for you all the time.
mafketis 24 | 9,384
29 Oct 2020 #1,658
/stalin-championed-the-idea

Whatevers, but..... what possible relevance could this have to the situation of the PiS and Konfederacja horribly misreading public opinion and making the gaffe of the decade?
jon357 66 | 17,068
29 Oct 2020 #1,659
It's just a source.

And a crap one.

I'm not going to do all the heavy lifting for you all the time.

You'd be unable.

PiS and Konfederacja horribly misreading public opinion and making the gaffe of the decade

Probably the biggest own-goal in (recent) Polish history.

The next protest (is it tomorrow?) is going to be massive.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
29 Oct 2020 #1,660
It's obvious that JK doesn't have the slightest connection with the priorities of voters under 50 or so

True, he is a politician of older date and will never attract young voters. Past attempts to do so, like with an anti-fur law or tik-tok presence, were grotesque.

Konfederacja horribly misreading public opinion

What exactly do you mean by that?

And a crap one.

Let me quote a French XIX socialist Amand Bazar on that: "[to provide] each ability according to its merits"
mafketis 24 | 9,384
29 Oct 2020 #1,661
What exactly do you mean by that?

Word is they were heavily pressuring for the TK to make a statement.... was this sabotage or ignorance?

Is Konfederacja in favor of the TK ruling?

(nb Polish legal language tends to be imprecise and unclear - it's possible to read almost anything into a document that's long enough....)
Spike31 2 | 2,110
29 Oct 2020 #1,662
@mafketis a general opinion in Konfederacja is that the problem of a eugenic abortion and lethal defects of the fetus are two different things that should be treated separately.
pawian 176 | 14,299
29 Oct 2020 #1,663
(nb Polish legal language tends to be imprecise and unclear

Not only legal ,unfortunately.
jon357 66 | 17,068
29 Oct 2020 #1,664
"[to provide] each ability according to its merits"

From each according to their ability: to each according to their need is a fair philosophy.

was this sabotage or ignorance?

It's in their interest to bring him down too...
mafketis 24 | 9,384
29 Oct 2020 #1,665
From each according to their ability: to each according to their need is a fair philosophy.

In fairytales maybe, too bad it's never come close to being workable in real life....

Not only legal ,unfortunately.

especially legal (the problem is cultural and not linguistic though)
jon357 66 | 17,068
29 Oct 2020 #1,666
too bad it's never come close to being workable in real life....

Yet.
Crow 146 | 9,122
29 Oct 2020 #1,667
Woman do have right to choose. In the nature of Slavic woman is to be free. Always. In all times.

Poland should calm and refuse fanatical dogma of the Vatican.

If continue like this Poland would betray Jagilonian and Piast path.

I just learned. Clero Nazi Catholic ustashe from Croatia support anti abortion laws in Poland and restriction of rights of Catholic and all other woman in Poland.

This is historical crossroad for Poland.
Lenka 3 | 2,577
30 Oct 2020 #1,668
the problem of a eugenic abortion and lethal defects of the fetus are two different things

Not by Bosak it seems
mafketis 24 | 9,384
30 Oct 2020 #1,669
Yet.

"I know the last 978 times didn't work, but this time I'm _sure) I've got it!" -Some dead alchemist from the 13th century.....
jon357 66 | 17,068
30 Oct 2020 #1,670
I know the last 978 times didn't work,

Rather like capitalism...

didn't work

It was tried once by the wrong people.

Some dead alchemist

Without alchemy, we'd never have had science...
mafketis 24 | 9,384
30 Oct 2020 #1,671
It was tried once by the wrong people.

Which was that one time again?

Without alchemy, we'd never have had science...

Without the repeated failure of operationalizing Marxist thought we'd still be stuck in fantasizing about how great it would be...
jon357 66 | 17,068
30 Oct 2020 #1,672
Without the repeated failure of operationalising Marxist thought

Sadly it's never truly been done. Though it will.

Meanwhile, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and people have to go out on the streets protesting decisions made on their behalf.
jon357 66 | 17,068
31 Oct 2020 #1,675
It's true though. Nobody ever anticipated that a pre-industrial society like Russia would bypass Socialism entirely and move to their own form of Communism. Much less, impose it on other pre-industrial societies like Poland.

And now we see an ignorant backlash, a regime voted for by villagers, one where women can't even have control over their own bodies.

Nevertheless, the direction that history has moved in has always in the scheme of things been away from the right and towards the left. Even KaczyƄski's PiS introduced 500+, a Socialist move if ever there was one.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
31 Oct 2020 #1,676
@jon357
It's based on a lie, it lies in human nature to climb the social ladder. Saying the ladder should be taken so that everyone can walk on it won't help if a chimney is blocking smoke coming out of the house. And if there will only be people tearing down ladders instead of making and using them then the house will burn down, I for one am not a pyromaniac and prefer peace and quiet while helping people instead of lynching mobs running wild looking for targets guided by intellectuals who are too smart to understand why we need boundaries. Pushing those boundaries to make a larger painting is quite different from throwing it in the fireplace.

One is progress, other is regress
mafketis 24 | 9,384
31 Oct 2020 #1,677
Nobody ever anticipated that a pre-industrial society like Russia would bypass Socialism

Surely it was the advanced western countries that were on the road to communism by the 1970s or so (welfare states as in Scandinavia) and not a feudal monstrosity like Russia... which simply replaced the Tsar with the Party Leader (and now Putin).

The advent of neoliberalism put a stop to that (for good or ill). But neoliberalism has now long outlived any usefulness it might have once had...
jon357 66 | 17,068
31 Oct 2020 #1,678
Surely it was the advanced western countries that were on the road to communism by the 1970

It's a long long road, as Marx always said.

But neoliberalism has now long outlived any usefulness it might have once had...

Agreed. What it may morph into is truly worrying.

it lies in human nature to climb the social ladde

A big part of Socialism is people being able to climb the ladder. By merit rather than inherited privilege and wealth earned by others.
mafketis 24 | 9,384
31 Oct 2020 #1,679
A big part of Socialism is people being able to climb the ladder. By merit

Which ironically has never happened in an officially socialist country....
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
31 Oct 2020 #1,680
Socialism is people being able to climb the ladder.

Via corruption and kissing the ass of the party lol.

Hopefully on Monday the government will begin work urgently to resolve the abortion issue,


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