The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 1,721

Abortion still under control in Poland


jon357 66 | 17,040
31 Oct 2020 #1,681
Via corruption and kissing the ass of the party lol.

Not especially, although you've just described capitalism perfectly.

Hopefully on Monday the government will begin work urgently to resolve the abortion issue,

Either permit it at the request of any pregnant woman (which they'll not do), or announce that the're ignoring the recent tribunal ruling (hard), or have more and more protests. Or declare Martial Law, which Rear Arsemiral Jaro-zelski would love to do.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
31 Oct 2020 #1,682
@jon357
I do not call family "others"
And my surname and coat of arms were given to my family and lineage by merits not gold as I do not and never intend to have some kind of title that would belittle my brothers or sisters. Wether they are such by faith, blood or language.

Those merits were confirmed several times through history, so I won't question them. I have yet to confirm them myself in my duties, no matter where I am.

So far I recall one of my family members interest in our family history, went to Kalisz if I recall correctly and came in contact with an old lady which still remembered my grand grand fathers milk factory (not sure if that is correct in English) about how clean the place was and how people loved working there.

Then it was grabbed and looted in late 1940's, also on my grandmothers side estate was taken from them. Everything lost, thrown out on the streets.

You talk about taking wealth from others, I rather build it myself so I prefer nobody butting in on anything I do and share it with those who deserve it. Cause I use my eyes, even tho I am justified to call out for justice to the heavens. I prefer to build my own future, even at the cost of isolation from others. Which is why my relation with the almighty is so important for me, I have enough of people stealing from me or any of my family members.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
31 Oct 2020 #1,683
you've just described capitalism perfectly.

Hey all these systems are faulty and prone to failure, some more than others.

On the other hand a dictatorship under my control would be hugely successful.

Would you like a job?
Poloniusz 4 | 603
31 Oct 2020 #1,684
permit it at the request of any pregnant woman

In other words, abortion on demand at the whim of the irresponsible mother and at the full expense of the tax payer the vast majority of whom oppose it.

ignoring the recent tribunal ruling

It's aligned with the Government's policies. Only radical leftists are making it a hyper focused issue because they have nothing else to attack the Government with. Life is good in Poland under PiS. That's why you won't leave and you know it!

have more and more protests

0.2% of the population is not a catalyst for change nor are they praised by the vast majority of Poles who don't agree with them in the first place.

But good luck anyway hoping that your wild fantasies might become reality as we head into winter. The Government will just sit back and comfortably let Mother Nature do her work and send this fringe minority of fair weather fairies beating a retreat.

declare Martial Law

You are always projecting!

The reality is that it is the PO regime which requires brutal armed state violence to enforce its will on Poles.

Just look at what happened only last year in Płock when Jakub Baryła, a brave young Pole of faith like millions of others of his generation, stood up against the demonic forces of PO backed libertine evil:





And haven't we seen this type of reactionary, intolerant, and savage response against patriotic, traditionalist Polish citizens before from PO's PRL predecessors?



Yes, we have!

And how unsurprising that you POtards never once posted about Jakub Baryła's inspiring public dissent and the unforgivable ferocious manhandling he endured by PO-led shock troops.

It was bad optics for PO a year ago and is still that way now. You lot didn't talk about it because you were and still are too ashamed. But you still own this outrageous abuse of power and silencing of free expression!
pawian 176 | 14,299
31 Oct 2020 #1,685
Life is good in Poland under PiS.

hahaha Communists also maintained life was good under their rule. Nazis claimed it, too, that Poles had a chance to live in German Paradise.

It is the second time you show your unforgivable affiliation to Nazi and Commie methods and propaganda. The first time was when you denounced Polish freedom fighters and called them shockingly bad names.

You are a savage svoloch.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
31 Oct 2020 #1,686
whim of the irresponsible mother and at the full expense of the tax payer

No single mothers are a far greater expense to the taxpayer than the cost of an abortion, don't forget that communism is all about the many paying for the few , it makes the difference between a commie party member having a private chauffer and a nanny for their kids or not ..
Ironside 50 | 10,939
1 Nov 2020 #1,687
No single mothers

If they are cuddled and spoiled by a fragmented society and a welfare state that is.
jon357 66 | 17,040
1 Nov 2020 #1,688
And my surname and coat of arms were given to my family and lineage

Humnan qualities and ability are not automatically inherited; genes don't work like that. They're basically a lottery. Most of us would be very surprised if we could meet our ancestors.

Then it was grabbed and looted in late 1940's

That was certainly some twisted form of Communism. Socialism certainly doesn't exclude small businesses.

On the other hand a dictatorship under my control would be hugely successful.

You'd be a late-stage Salazar.
Atch 17 | 3,427
1 Nov 2020 #1,689
qualities and ability are not automatically inherited; genes don't work like that. They're basically a lottery.

There's certainly some truth in that. 'Greatness' certainly doesn't seem to be inherited. Time after time you see the descendants of the most extraordinary figures in history, be it in the arts, sciences or leadership, achieve nothing remarkable at all. There are exceptions of course but the apple does seem to fall quite far from the tree in those cases. And there are a number of very ordinary people who can claim distant royal ancestry, but there's nothing remotely regal in their bearing :)
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
1 Nov 2020 #1,690
@jon357
We are able to shape ourselves like an artisan blacksmith shapes a blade, knowing what your ancestors were able to perform leads to the thought that you also can do it.

I was under the impression that proponents of socialism rather want the small businesses to be addicted and bound to the state (not talking about degree here) leading them to be less competitive and self thinking about what they need to do.

Prime example is the state of affairs of French farmers, having the need of economical support at every turn out of fear of another revolution in France where there won't be enough food on the market. Not to mention the state of affairs of Polish farmers and food in 1980's

Which is why I am a strong supporter of farmers being as independent as possible, so that they can grow as much competitively quality food possible in Poland. Poland has after all has strong agricultural traditions, food should be our medicine.

There is a delicate balance between treating animals like products and thinking they are like human beings.

They are first and foremost animals, with their own needs. You can't treat a cat the same way like a dog, as they communicate differently.

There should be as little taxes as possible for any farmer in Poland, a farmers job is mainly to provide food to the local market, take care of his family, be part of the local community and help those who need a job by letting them practice on their fields.

States main responsibility is that nobody disturbs the farmers from giving the fruits of his labour to his neighbors which is why Christianity is important to maintain in rural Poland. As one is supposed to treat your neighbor well.

A farmer who hates himself, or generally is full of hate is a threat to the stability for the whole community.

Which is why priests and teachers locally should not be instigating or escalating conflicts near farmers. Petty fights for influence and power in the community can only lead to a bad path unless it has good intentions. Conflict is natural, while war is destruction.

The goal should not be experimenting with the community, but building it up. Especially in these COVID times, a start of settling in local communities, avoiding huge populations in big cities would be the first step. I myself intend to settle locally in Poland, I have yet to find the most suited place yet
jon357 66 | 17,040
1 Nov 2020 #1,691
We are able to shape ourselves like an artisan blacksmith shapes a blade

We can if we aren't economically disadvantaged; if we are empowered, we can create our building.

The first generation make the money, the second spend it, the third waste what's left.

there are a number of very ordinary people who can claim distant royal ancestry, but there's nothing remotely regal in their bearing

Many thousands of us.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
1 Nov 2020 #1,692
We can if we aren't economically disadvantaged;

Excuses. Opportunities and abilities not money. Yiech if you have two lazy morons and one is without money while other has lost of it. They end up in different places but that a different story.

Many thousands of us.

sure tribal 'kings' from 1000 of years ago - sure but not in the case of the history quite recent.
jon357 66 | 17,040
1 Nov 2020 #1,693
Opportunities and abilities not money.

Precisely; a system where someone without inherited money has opportunity to thrive and the ability to do so. You could of course leave potential talent in the slums without any opportunity or chance to realise the best their abilities allow.

sure tribal 'kings' from 1000 of years ago - sure but not in the case of the history quite recent.

That doesn't actually make any sense.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
1 Nov 2020 #1,694
at. 'Greatness' certainly doesn't seem to be inherited.

It's called reversion to the mean... extraordinary people tend to have... ordinary children (and having every advantage handed to you from a young age tends to not hone a person's ambition, if anything it's a burden and a pernicious barrier to success)

In terms of general inheritance people get hung up on the outliers and neglect the fact that the great majority of human beings inherit most of their physical and intellectual potential (or lack thereof) directly from their parents.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
2 Nov 2020 #1,695
You are missing quite a few variables here:
- can you really accurately pre-determine if a child will die within a few hours and can that accurately be regulated per law?
- there *IS* also the Moral complicatiion of the murder of a human, just because this human is disabled. That a fetus isn't alive is not a scientific fact, what life is is a highly debated topic because it's foocking complicated. The Law can only ever define if a fetus can have rights.

This whole issue is not easily solved and the "but it's the womens body" thing is just a feminist construct, to have only women have a say in reproduction, you can not expect everyone to believe that (sh!t).

Just listen to what you are saying here, even if you argue that the polish government does not know better, you deem the women to be the sole arbiter of what is right and what is not. That is not better in the least, there is (or should be) at least one more person involved, possibly 2.

I do not have a good answer on that topic personally, currently I am more occupied with understanding how Abortion can or can not be fair when looked at the opposing interest of the sexes, but that this is clear and done deal is a ridiculous position.

In fact I would assume that this will be an issue that will never be fully "solved".
pawian 176 | 14,299
2 Nov 2020 #1,696
Oops, kondzio, you made a mistake - this thread isn`t about abortion, but about the Women`s Party.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
2 Nov 2020 #1,697
The constitutional court made a ruling that parts of the law on abortion are unconstitutional, which means they need to be changed. Yes, this includes things like terminal conditions of the fetus that are going to lead to certain deff after birth.

However, the court does not have executive or legislative power. Abortion won't be "banned" until the law is amended to do that. And:

- Various governments in recent history straight up ignored the rulings of the court on matters they found inconvenient.
- The action that needs to be taken after the ruling is issued has a very comfy deadline, which while I don't know what it is specifically, I think it might even be two years?

- The law can be amended with enough legal gymnastics to appease the ruling while not actually changing anything.
- The most likely course of action will be that the law will be amended to continue allowing abortions of children with terminal conditions but will prohibit aborting cases such as downies.

- The government had countless occasions to ban abortion before but didn't. To think it will do so now is lunacy.

This is a gigantic nothingburger, and as each and every single other abortion drama of the last five years, it's based on nothing but lies and is heated up by demagogues who profit from people's ignorance regarding the legislative process and general lack of political knowledge in order to further their own agenda. And I'm once more profoundly disgusted by it.
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Nov 2020 #1,698
Abortion won't be "banned" until the law is amended to do that.

And PiS is delaying the final decision. The ruling hasn`t been published in official documents in required time and the Parliament session which was to decide about President`s plan for less strict law has been postponed till 18 November.

Kaja Godek, pro-life activist, accuses PiS government of betrayal. Funny.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
27 Jan 2021 #1,699
. The ruling hasn`t been published in official documents in required time

The published something today and crowds are already out protesting in many cities....

I think part of it might be to distract public attention from recent revelations on just how much money PiS has funneled to the corrupt demagogue Rydzyk....

or it might be to distract form the shambling vaccination schedule...

or something else?
jon357 66 | 17,040
27 Jan 2021 #1,700
or something else?

I don't think it's to distract from anything. They're a weak government so far under the influence of Ordo Iuris etc that they've little option but to do it now.
Lenka 3 | 2,566
27 Jan 2021 #1,701
Well, we will see how it will work for them. It's an emotional issue and with this they pushed the emotions of public against the new law. Of course with a lot of work on programs etc they could influence how people feel about it but for now it might be hard
LostSoul 3 | 96
27 Jan 2021 #1,702
Because of that, I would have to immigrate from this country, probably. I'm so sorry.
I support abortion until the 3rd month of fetal development.
LostSoul 3 | 96
27 Jan 2021 #1,704
If my ego was about to be born, it wouldn't be Poland. It would be the West. Maybe I'd look different e.g. I would be Asian, Black or with blond hair, but Poland would be the last country I wished I was born in. If I had to be born in Saudi Arabia or North Korea, please, abort me.

I always declare myself as a patriot, but it's merely because of my family and the sacrifice a lot of Polish people did, in order to save their land... The economy in Poland is pretty bad, to be honest. And I hate the Catholic Church.

I didn't wish to be placed in the planet Earth, though.

But I understand, it's a sensitive issue, though, as there are many philosophical questions about abortion. I think far-left exaggerates with the exact time, when abortion is allowed to be done, they push it too far, until 6th or 9th month is way too much for me, though.

I'm personally a virgin, I never had any sex, I'm 21 years old.
Novichok - | 2,112
27 Jan 2021 #1,705
Abortion should be treated as carefully as assisted suicide. Both must be justified. My swimming suit won't fit or I was drunk when "it" "happened" is not a justification for either.
LostSoul 3 | 96
27 Jan 2021 #1,706
Anyway, never mind. I see, what is posted there on random chat. Ok, you're Polish. I though otherwise, because of your nick. My nick also sounds foreign, but I'm Polish from South. Let's stick to the topic.
LostSoul 3 | 96
28 Jan 2021 #1,707
Even then, I was perfectly fine with the earlier compromise.
I don't want to give birth to a child with disabilities. It's bad for economy and my money. I'm sorry, for example children with Down syndrome are not like people think, it's a cutie. There were cases of rape of mothers by people with Down syndrome (seriously, they don't know, what they're doing, they are not aware of consequences). Such actions are forgivable, because it's a disabled person that did this.

People that suffer of cerebral palsy, have it worse, they can't move. So, it's even worse for economy.
I'm sorry, I just don't agree with it, it places us among the countries like Somalia, Nicaragua, Saudi Arabia and other African, Latin American or Arabic hellholes.

The map clearly shows it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#/media/File:Abortion_Laws.svg
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
28 Jan 2021 #1,708
There were cases of rape of mothers by people with Down syndrome

You will find it the other way around , people with downs syndrome are the ones being abused

google.co.uk/search?q=down%27s+syndrome+rapists&ei=ycUSYOaREMn6gAaq7JrQCQ&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwimmumT577uAhVJPcAKHSq2BpoQ8NMDegQIBRBP&biw=1242&bih=603
jon357 66 | 17,040
28 Jan 2021 #1,709
People that suffer of cerebral palsy, have it worse, they can't move

Some. It affects different people to different extents.

Nevertheless, the decision to continue with a pregnancy or not is a matter for the person who's pregnant. Nobody else. Nor do they need to disclose a reason.
LostSoul 3 | 96
28 Jan 2021 #1,710
You will find it the other way around , people with downs syndrome are the ones being abused

Yeah, some nasty people like taking advantage of disabled, that's unfortunate. So, I don't say, every person with Down syndrome does it. But mostly, they are not aware of the consequences of their actions.

Nevertheless, don't force me to deliver a child with disabilities, because you are so God-fearing. I'm an Atheist-Agnostic. Not every Polish person is Catholic.


Home / News / Abortion still under control in Poland
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.