The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 1,508

Abortion still under control in Poland


delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
14 Oct 2012  #121
It disturbs me when anyone is 100% behind him on anything.

It disturbs you when he says that ZUS contributions for the self employed should be cut for small and medium businesses from the current 1000zl a month?
p3undone 8 | 1,135
14 Oct 2012  #122
Foreigner4,If a man and a woman decide to have sex without contraception,understand;knowing full well that this can lead to pregnancy and pregnancy does occur,then I think that they should both be on the same page about the abortion.I think that if she decides she doesn't want the responsibility and wants to abort,but he doesn't want abortion and is willing to take sole custody of the child and be 100% responsible for rearing the child,then I think he should be able to have the child.If both are on the same page about the abortion,ok then no problem.He helped create that life he doesn't own her body but his DNA is being replicated and he does have a stake in what's being produced.I think she should have to have the baby.I don't think that that that would be an unreasonable request,because she avoids having to have responsibility.The man helped create that life;he should have a say,because at this point your not just talking about her body.If she doesn't want to have a baby under these circumstances,then be careful and either abstain or use contraception.I think that they should both have to be on the same page to terminate,when you're talkng just to avoid responsibility.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
14 Oct 2012  #123
P3 - one problem with your approach is that determining who the father is of an unborn baby requires putting a needle into the womb - which carries a 1% risk of miscarriage.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
14 Oct 2012  #124
Delphiandomine,Very good point,tricky.I'm referring to a case that it is already established.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
14 Oct 2012  #125

In all honesty, I think your idea is completely ludicrous and takes a plunge down the slippery slope to an Authoritarian Republic. I wouldn't want to bring a new life into such a society.

That scenario is, I think, a good reason to be selective when creating a love explosion and I honestly believe the way I think on this to be the far saner and more progressive approach than what you described.

But as you stated, we can agree to disagree.

Edit:
Okay, maybe that was a bit harsh. I guess I think it would be ludicrous if that was a normal occurrence. I suppose we must acknowledge that if a woman decides to engage in the lateral dance then she must also take on the potential responsibilities...I'm back on the fence now...: /

last response was edited
p3undone 8 | 1,135
14 Oct 2012  #126
So what is so insane about as to a woman going through a proven to be dangerous abortion?How is that more sane than a natural childbirth?How is it authoritarian?You did something to get there then you deal with it.I'm not talking about forcing a woman to get pregnant.So explain how it's less authoritarian for a man not to have any say.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
14 Oct 2012  #127
Can I not think both of the presented options to be nutty?

I just think the idea of carting off a person and forcing them to do something with their body which is against their will is an extremely bad idea in general. I acknowledge that every situation is different and sometimes people can really suck sh*t and then intervention is required. That isn't to say I would ever support that being a normal occurrence in any society I lived in.

A man has his a "say" during sexy time.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
14 Oct 2012  #128
Foreigner4,So does a woman during sexy time..If she is being made to let nature take it's course and she avoids having to have that responsibility.....If he had that say during sex and is willing to deal with the consequences,so to speak.He should be allowed to.I don't think that a woman going through a natural childbirth is insane,as woman have been doing it for eons.I think that an unnatural abortion other than for mitigating circumstances and not for "I don't want the responsibility";when you have someone who will care for that child is insane.We can agree to disagree.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
14 Oct 2012  #129
I have plenty of proof that religion is a complete shambles, IN REALITY its the religious that would struggle with the proof actually.

Religious people do struggle with proof. Then again they don't need it, that is why another way of saying you are religious or believing in God is 'having faith.'

It disturbs you when he says that ZUS contributions for the self employed should be cut for small and medium businesses

Oh don't get me wrong you can agree with a statement but it just disturbs me when I hear the phrase '100% behind him.' Perhaps you could agree with one or two particular aspects of Hitler's world view but once you say you're 100% behind him it makes people look at you funny.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
14 Oct 2012  #130
So does a woman during sexy time..

sigh...biology dictates that with the duty of carrying us when we're developing, our mothers also get more of a "say" in what happens to us. Is this really that hard for you to figure out?
p3undone 8 | 1,135
14 Oct 2012  #131
Foreigner4,No it's not hard for me to figure out,is it hard for you to figure out what I'm saying?
delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
14 Oct 2012  #132
but once you say you're 100% behind him it makes people look at you funny.

Now you understand why we think those Babcia's are very strange when they idolise Jarek ;)
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
14 Oct 2012  #133
No it's not hard for me to figure out,is it hard for you to figure out what I'm saying?

Yes, yes it is.
Say it more succinctly and plainly because it as I've read (and likely misunderstood) it seems like you're saying things should be different than nature dictates.
Wroclaw Boy
14 Oct 2012  #134
Religious people do struggle with proof. Then again they don't need it

Ohh yes of course, its the old we don't need any proof chappy, huum nice one.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170
14 Oct 2012  #135
But OK, if you're content to imprison pregnant women, and approve of invasive medical intervention against the woman's will, that's your right.

Is this happening in Poland right now ?
Orpheus - | 114
14 Oct 2012  #136
Not as far as I know, although it is entirely possible that women in Poland are, let's say, coerced into doing something they do not want to do.

The disagreement I had with p3 was that I suggested that his argument, reductio ad absurdum, would lead to a woman being effectively imprisoned and forced to complete the term of a pregnancy. The moral and legal consequences do not exist at the moment, but under p3's scenario they would.

My stance remains that a woman should ultimately have the final say in what happens to, and within, her own body.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809
14 Oct 2012  #137
I've asked for the 'snipsnip', In fact I asked two doctors. None of the doctors agreed to it.

It seems they didn't tell you the whole truth.

Law in Poland:

Google translate:

The Polish almost no adjustment, which directly relates to contraceptive sterilization procedures. In particular, it has not been provided for in the legislation as a method of birth control.
In Article 156 CC is listed act of injustice, which inflict is punishable by imprisonment:
"ยง 1.Kto causing grievous bodily harm in the form of:
1) depriving a man of vision, hearing, speech, ability to procreate,
2) other serious injury, serious illness or long-term incurable, life-threatening illness actually, permanent mental illness, in whole or in substantial inability to work in a profession or a permanent serious disfigurement or deformation of the body, be liable to imprisonment from one year to 10 years '

This provision clearly refers to a situation in which the victim / and he / and a victim of violence. Meanwhile, the provision relating to damage caused by violence applies to situations in which the patient / ka voluntarily subjected to this method of contraception.

Meanwhile, in accordance with recognized human rights, conscious and voluntary renunciation of their own fertility is a fundamental human right. So the treatments performed by doctors at the request of the persons concerned, not only can not be treated as a crime, but should be available along with other methods of contraception.

Polish practice:

In practice, in Poland tubal ligation in women is sometimes performed during cesarean section, medical indications, when another pregnancy would endanger her life or health. This surgery is performed, however, less and less. There are no rules or standards that regulate availability of application in similar situations. Doctors avoid carrying out these procedures, even for medical reasons, claiming that it is illegal.
Men who are interested in this form of contraception, seek solutions on their own. The Federation of practice shows that many men seeking to perform a vasectomy. Frequently go to the clinics to the west. Polish doctors, mostly considering vasectomy for an act prohibited by law, refuse to comply with it. It is very difficult to find a doctor who will be carrying out these procedures.
In the media, such as websites, there is a widespread belief that sterilization (contraceptive) is legally prohibited. Please note that there is no provision for voluntary sterilization carried out in order to secure contraceptive.
Controversy over the current legal status is such that in practice sterilization on request treated as a permanent method of birth control, practically it is not available even for medical reasons in women.

It sounds to me like you women are baby making machines and should get no say in the matter, after all it was Eve who took the first bite.

On the other hand, an unborn child is a life and that is true with or without your notions of God, Allah, Yahweh, etc. Anyone trying to debate that is simply uninformed.

When is an unborn child a life? two months into pregnancy? two days? the twinkle in the woman's and man's eye? before that?
Orpheus - | 114
14 Oct 2012  #138
conscious and voluntary renunciation of their own fertility is a fundamental human right.

Gabi was talking about the UK.
There seems to be an unwritten consensus in the UK under which doctors are extremely unwilling to sterilise women of child-bearing age, especially healthy, sane unmarried women.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
14 Oct 2012  #139
Now you understand why we think those Babcia's are very strange when they idolise Jarek

Can you think of a party that does not have extreme loyal voters that vote for them no matter what? I think most people just go for the party that is the closest to their views. Many thought that was PO but recently that have had to evaluate what the party has actually done and have a rethink.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
14 Oct 2012  #140
Foreigner4,To abort is not natural.To have a baby is.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
14 Oct 2012  #141
Ohh yes of course, its the old we don't need any proof chappy, huum nice one.

Some people claim to have proof. They claim to have seen Jesus or spoke to him or Mary or whoever. It is usually a personal experience so neither you or I can confirm it as true. I have not had an experience personally, as for prayers being answered, well I have prayed for something that has happened, but also for stuff that has not happened. My faith is purely that, it is just faith, others claim to be more fortunate. I just think your statement is very outright against something that you cannot say for sure is false. I do not think there are UFO's or aliens in space but some do. I just let them be and get on with my life, rather than waste time trying to mock them constantly.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809
14 Oct 2012  #142
Gabi was talking about the UK.

Thanks for the clarification.

,To abort is not natural.To have a baby is.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, there were 1.21 million abortions performed in the United States in 2008, the most recent year for which data is available. This amounts to 3,322 abortions per day.

Are you saying these people are unnatural?

And under what authority do you make such a judgment?
natasia 3 | 368
14 Oct 2012  #143
given all medical evidence that foetuses are not sentient individuals,

the medical profession as a whole do not oppose the procedure.

These things just aren't true.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
15 Oct 2012  #144
When is an unborn child a life? two months into pregnancy? two days? the twinkle in the woman's and man's eye? before that?

can't tell you when, can only tell you that it is.

Foreigner4,To abort is not natural.To have a baby is

we are born unto this world, we are part of nature, we and our actions are natural.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170
15 Oct 2012  #145
When is an unborn child a life? two months into pregnancy? two days?

From the very beginning. If you do not agree, please provide your definition.
Ironside 47 | 9,571
15 Oct 2012  #146
don't waste your time on master Yoda.
He will answer something along the line - Clip our dick, you can, but make us forget what it is to ****, never you can.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809
15 Oct 2012  #147
From the very beginning.

Okay, when is the beginning?
After fertilisation of the egg? before?

Some believe that sperm should not be 'wasted' because it has the potential for life, others believe that a woman should not be able to make herself sterile because of the potential for life.

if we are going to call a group of cells "potential for life" then my question is at what stage do people on here see it?

The intention of having unprotected sex could be seen as the "beginning".

If you do not agree, please provide your definition.

I have never really looked in to it but I wouldn't say a sperm is a person and even if it has the potential to become one, I would not say not using that potential is wrong.

I also doubt if a fertilised egg is a person, although again it has the potential.

I have never been in a position were I would have the option of an abortion.
Some of my friends have had abortions, they are illegal in Ireland so they had to go to England to have them.

I do find it really strange that people can't sterilise themselves though, that's how far back some people believe the ''potential to create a person'' goes and how far they are willing too impede in other people's lives..

Yet celibacy or abstinence are in fact doing the same thing but that seems to be honored.

Ironside

You are probably the only person I have considered to put on an ignore list only because you never have a point to make and you're insufferably boring.
Ironside 47 | 9,571
15 Oct 2012  #148
please do Sean because the fact that you are unable to understand my posts and at the same time you blame me for your shortcomings just take a biscuit. I find you incredibly simple and flat and boring as well.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
15 Oct 2012  #149
Foreigner4,such as having a baby.
4 eigner 2 | 831
15 Oct 2012  #150
we and our actions are natural

we are a part of nature, our actions, not always.

Home / News / Abortion still under control in Poland
Discussion is closed.