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New "Polish memorial" in Berlin


mafketis 24 | 9,374
15 Jan 2021 #61
If they will have no other option to close this inconvenient subject they would pay.

PiS doesn't want the money because then they'd lose the idea of reparations as a tool to fire up their low information base.

dream about Poland in strong alliance with the Kremlin

It's weird how a formerly leftwing idea (Poland as a vassal state of Russia) is now a cherished goal of the right...
pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jan 2021 #62
That`s the old nationalist political programme - better to be in alliance with Russia than Germany. The funniest thing is they hate Germans for their high culture and civilisation but also despise Russia for her barbarism and backwardness. Yet, they are ready to ally with her, hoping she will help them attain their political goals.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
15 Jan 2021 #63
Such as?

I have already explained that on PF. Look for it. It was few years back.

one could see the ongoing payments from Brussels as a kind of reparation,

BB , that is nothing new, that has been said many times. Its BS. Those money are a compensation for Poland open market that is worth ten of thousands more that those token money from Brussels.

they are slowly pushing us

Who ask your opinion? You are just a rabble, you admitted it long ago giving up an independent Poland. Shut you trap!

IF Germany wants a very good relations with Poland it can have it. It all in German hands. I would love to have a good relations with Germany after we sort out all those issue that arise from the fact that status quo is very advantageous to Germany. All that rabble in Poland like pawian give Germany a sense that they can F with Poland with impunity.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
15 Jan 2021 #64
It's weird how a formerly leftwing idea (

Excuse me? What are are talking about? Soviet propaganda? You are not talking about reality. I mean you must be slow-witted to post that nonsense here!

I wonder how come you side with Soviets in Poland all the time . Yet you dare to claim you are not a commie. Evidently ideological difference between an American neo-liberal and the post-Soviet rabble in Poland is basically nonexistent.

Figures!
mafketis 24 | 9,374
15 Jan 2021 #65
how come you side with Soviets in Poland all the time

Your definition of "Soviets" was insane so anytime you use the word is a cue that there's no point discussion the issue with you.

American neo-liberal

I've never been so insulted in my life! You should apologize immediately!
Ironside 50 | 10,939
15 Jan 2021 #66
Your definition of "Soviets"

Ok lefties in Poland which is basically the same as Soviets', post-commies or a rabble. It makes a lot of sense unless you are in bed with them like you!

I've never been so insulted in my life!

Well, its other way saying of conmen, stodges, fools and a commie scum. If that doesn't offend you - good for you, not that I care either way. lol!
Tacitus 2 | 1,229
15 Jan 2021 #67
Rather strange to see the Polish political Center and Left be compared to the Soviets when his PiS behaviour is so much closer to it (just switch their doctrine from religion to Communism).
Ironside 50 | 10,939
15 Jan 2021 #68
PiS behaviour i

Who told that PiS is not a Center?
I know that from Marxist everything right of progressive neo-Marxist ideology is right but I don't care about their take as it is an obviously ideological narrow view. Nothing to do with reality or facts.

As all the hacks take out there talk about Nazis as right wing ideology which obviously is false. Nazis are a right wing only from the commies point of view.
Spike31 2 | 2,109
15 Jan 2021 #69
PiS doesn't want the money because

I'm not thinking in terms of what "PiS wants" but rather what would be good for Poland. Those are two separate things.

Let's separate the interest of [any given] ruling political party from the long-term interest of Poland.

When it comes to international politics and dealing with other countries let's start thinking in terms:

#1 What do you offer and how can we benefit from it?

#2 What are your demands? And what steps are you going to take if we don't agree to your demands?

pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jan 2021 #70
the long-term interest of Poland.

The long term interest of Poland is to stick to the European Union coz alone we are too weak to resist Russia. Yet, you (editorial) are doing everything to undermine Poland`s position in the EU and eventually lead to Polexit. After that, an alliance with Russia is a possible and even desired option coz the Kremlin will help you gain and then wield power in Poland.

And this is all only because you hate Germany. A perfect example how blind hatred can make people completely oblivious to reality.

that there's no point discussion the issue with you.

We need to discuss vital issues with nutters all the time coz otherwise they might think we give up and that would embolden them to concoct even stupider schemes than now. They need to know there is strong opposition to their crazy ideology and ideas and they are hugely outnumbered by decent and reasonable people. Simple.
Spike31 2 | 2,109
15 Jan 2021 #71
And this is all only because you hate Germany

For you, there are two simple states of relations between the two countries/nations: love or hate. And when you perceive that there's a "love" between the two nothing should be done to upset it. I guess you are a victim of a state education system that puts too much pressure on romanticism.

In fact the most important thing is the national interest. And serious countries understand that.

I'm simply disillusioned about Germany, its intentions, and long-term interests in CE.

If you dropped that foolish romantic outlook on politics, the "EU integration" and "Germo-Polish friendship" you would notice it too.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jan 2021 #72
Rather strange to see the Polish political Center and Left be compared to the Soviets when his PiS behaviour is so much closer to it

Because this is what they do. They accuse others of being what they are themselves.
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
15 Jan 2021 #73
I'm simply disillusioned about Germany, its intentions, and long-term interests in CE.

...remember how ridiculously long it Germany took to build an airport? So much for it's intentions....I'm quite abit disillusioned too!
pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jan 2021 #74
there are two simple states of relations between the two countries/nations: love or hate

You are making things up now. Where did I say I love Germany? Remind me coz I don`t remember. hahaha

In fact the most important thing is the national interest.

Yes, I see it this way, too. The Polish national interest is to stick to democratic Germany and the EU in general.

If not, we will become a dictatorship like Belarus with the only difference that Lukashenka is an ex- Soviet product while the democracy in Poland will be destroyed by rightists and nationalists. And protests against the rightwing tyranny will be supressed by Russian troops, like in the past. Thank you very much for such national interest. Not national , but nationalist interest, you wanted to say.

If you dropped that foolish romantic outlook on politics,

No, I beg YOU to give up that hatred of Germany and the EU coz it is useless anyway - 80% Poles oppose your views. Yes, I know, you hope that nationalist and rightist propaganda will change it one day like water erodes the rock - but I wouldn`t count on it. Reasonable people see through your sick goals and will do their best to contain them.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
15 Jan 2021 #75
what would be good for Poland

Making a stink of reparations would.... not be good for Poland. Especially because it opens up the issued of the "Regained" (hilariously innacurate adjective) lands... in the real world you can't have one without the other....
pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jan 2021 #76
Or, eat a cake and have it. :):)

the issue of the "Regained" lands..

Exactly.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jan 2021 #77
Especially because it opens up the issued of the "Regained" (hilariously innacurate adjective) lands

It's an issue that Poland most definitely doesn't want to get involved in. If Poland was to seriously pursue repatriations, then it immediately opens the door to a monumental claim against Poland. The only thing preventing Germany from doing that is the fact that the German Reich was extinguished, therefore the Federal Republic never had any claim to those territories.
pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jan 2021 #78
then it immediately opens the door to a monumental claim against Poland.

Yes, but that is their plan exactly - lead to the situation when Germany adopts aggressive approach towards Poland so that they can ask the Kremlin for assistance. With Russian help, they will be able to rule in Poland at last.

We lived this situation after WW2 - the Soviet Union was the main guarantor of the Polish claim to Regained Lands. Now, certain circles want history to repeat. Communism replaced by nationalism - the Kremlin will grab at such an opportunity happily.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
15 Jan 2021 #79
so that they can ask the Kremlin for assistance

Which has _always_ worked so well in the past!
Spike31 2 | 2,109
16 Jan 2021 #80
Especially because it opens up the issued of the "Regained" (...) lands

It does not. Those are two different questions regulated by different international acts and documents.

PS: As for the rest of the replies, [@pawian @delphian] I'm not even going to legitimate that nonsense by replying to it. Produce something better or don't bother at all.
pawian 176 | 14,299
16 Jan 2021 #81
regulated by different international acts and documents.

That`s a double standard. Regained Lands are regulated but reperations aren`t. :):)

I'm not even going to legitimate that nonsense by replying to it.

I knew it. :):)
mafketis 24 | 9,374
16 Jan 2021 #82
Regained Lands are regulated but reperations aren`t.

What are the "Regained" lands if not reparations?
pawian 176 | 14,299
16 Jan 2021 #83
Not quite a reperation for the genocide and destruction, but a compensation for the lands which Poland lost in the East.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
16 Jan 2021 #84
lands which Poland lost in the East.

Maybe spike31 should try make demands that those be returned? IINM Ironside thinks Wilno and Lwów etc should be returned....
Ironside 50 | 10,939
16 Jan 2021 #85
ridiculously long it Germany took to build an airport?

Exactly. So logically if German economy the strongest in the EU is going down what sense for Poland is to stick to an organization that obviously is economically going down.

At the present Poland is being exploited and will be exploited more as economical circumstances of the Germany and EU worsen.
It doesn't MAKE SENSE for Poland to stay in the EU! Does it BB?

Because this is what they do.

Division in Poland goes along progressives'/patriots line. Only those two camps divide into left and right.
So in a patriots camp PIS is left or center left, Konfederacja is a spectrum from a center-right to right.
Obviously for the neo-Marxist/ processive/commie point of view all of them are the right.

In a progressives' camp PO used to be on the right, PSL center, and there some small BS parties that are left. Thing is the radical small parties of the radical left has been pretty much pushing PO into supporting their narrative as PO has dumb dullards for members. Also they depend heavily on a foreign support (from Germany but not only) and forces there wants them to push all that radical LGBT agenda too.

That is a one of the reasons they have lost a lot of support.
Holownia got those people who are confused or who used to support PO when it was a party without that LGBT radical left BS. Thing is he has no stance or a program or a vison just a few slogans those people like to hear.

From the point of view of the patriots camp those people in the progressive camp are scum, commies and traitors.
Got it delp?
pawian 176 | 14,299
16 Jan 2021 #86
It doesn't MAKE SENSE for Poland to stay in the EU! Does it BB?

Economically it still makes a lot of sense. Politically, even more. Your arguments are infantile so either you reason like a kid or you are a Kremlin troll. Simple.

From the point of view of the patriots camp

The funniest thing is that real patriots, not connected witrh the rightists and nationalists, consider them traitors and Kremlin stooges, too. Like you are.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
16 Jan 2021 #87
The funniest thing is that real patriots,

Real patriots that want Poland to be a vasal state. Hey why don't you call yourself true Poles now? Don't make you laugh. You only have stolen patriotic rhetoric because your previous one about being in Europe and become Europeans doesn't work anymore....

Economically it still

Long term, long term you moron, You are only thinking about yourself. Hey there is no guarantee of the time table. It possible that in ten years time economical situation will worsen so bad that you will pay the price too.

Kremlin stooges,

Taking about being immature and trolling. Should i call you German stooge and butler? In your case that is true.
Don't call yourself Polish and I won't call you a traitor.
pawian 176 | 14,299
16 Jan 2021 #88
Real patriots that want Poland to be a vasal state.

If you don`t mind Poland being a Russian vasal state, then you are a traitor.

Don't call yourself Polish

Actually, I am Polish while you are not anymore after 30 years in emigration. You are a pathetic migrant loser who talks a lot of stupidities about Poland from a safe distance but you even didn`t raise your kids to feel truly Polish as you admitted once. If the things go your way, it is me and my kids who will have to live under the Kremlin occupation again. While you will be living a comfy life in the USA.

All your production here is useless and harmful to Polish interests. Get lost, you stinking traitor.

Keep to the topic of the thread please
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
16 Jan 2021 #89
It doesn't MAKE SENSE for Poland to stay in the EU! Does it BB?

No better opportunity to pounce on Germany, to establish Poland as an indispensable, essential mayor player....not from the outside looking in, but from quite smack in the center!!!

That's the inherent logical flaw in all visionary power plays which pits Poland against Germany outside the EU. That only weakens Poland's position, where the only option would be to wait for any future "downfall" of the whole EU!
Spike31 2 | 2,109
16 Jan 2021 #90
to wait for any future "downfall"

Are you trying to put an image in our heads of Merkel shooting herself in some bunker under Berlin after the collapse of the EU? :-)

I do agree with that conclusion, and I pointed it out on few occasions on pf's, except for one crucial detail: not waiting for the EU to collapse but actively helping that scenario to happen. And building a free European trade agreement on its ruin.

And in case that would not be possible Poexit should be considered as a second-best option. The worst option would be to stay in and let the EU morph into a federation and to swallow the sovereignty of all the nation-states in the process.


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