Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

Get back to me after Israel grants Palestinians the right of return....

Individual victims of Nazi aggression, yes. Prisoners of war, and their relatives (if they died).

@cms

Of course. And those jews in pl are far more assimilated than those living in pl during ww2. Most of them now have mixed polish jewish blood esp as after the 60s jews esp zionists tried ro hide their identity through name changes, marrying christian poles, converting or pretending to, etc.

@lyzko

If poles should feel collectively responsible for pogroms like in kielce or jedwabne, then jews should also feel collectively responsible for the murders of ak members, generals, and even civilians as well as spreading aggressive bolshevism/communism, zionism, bombing schools and hospitals, massacring students walking out of their university, etc. But of course that wouldnt make any sense to blame a whole nation for what a minority did. If it was a majority okay fine but even then it doesnt mean 100% participated.

Perhaps jews specifically zionists and israel should do the right thing and pay reparations to all the people theyve harmed. Afterall, germany, france, switzerland and several others already had their citizens collectively extorted. Jewish inventions of marxism, leninism, trotskyism, and communism killed hundreds of millions of people - far more than nazism and any nationalist movements. Perhaps its time the jews collectivelt pay for the ideologies fellow jews created, instilled, and enforced through terror, murder, starvation, mass killings, shallow graves, ethnic cleansing, etc. Funny, because israel and its zionists still partake in such activities to this very day. Oh how quick the persecuted became the aggressor...

Its high time for israel to part with a few billion shekels...., or at the very least leave all illegally occupied lands and compensate those whos homes were bulldozed and families killed in ethnic cleansing campaigns to makr way for settlers. Indeed, the palestinians refer to the zionists livinf in illegal settlements and the idf soldiers (who protect their behinds as theyre too cowardly to walk the streets without their protection) as the occupation. Even politicians refer to the settlers thay way and it is a very accurate name - even the un calls the palestine campaigns occupation, ethnic cleansing, illegal, etc.

But even if they are not assimilated or dont pretend to be catholic they are as Polish as you - in fact more Polish than you because thry live here and pay tax here and have to follow Polish laws

Yeah.... I'm actually overall far more in the Israeli friend camp than the "drive them into the sea!" camp but they have little room to lecture other countries about morality. Grant the Palestinians the right of return and then they can preach to Poland...

to be clear, the right of return is a non-starter and would be a terrible idea, but all the melodramatic hand wringing about this dumb law does not create a good impression.

We'll feel historically and collectively responsible when Poles do the same.

65 billions of $$$ for american jooish organizations. Last month murican senate approved a bill that will support murican joos extorting property from central/eastern europe.

Spreading Communism AND Zionism? How the Hell are they supposed to have squared that circle in your tiny mind?

The two arent that incompatible, early post WWII was a large scale socialist experiment (that largely didn't work).

Oh my so now you don't pretend to be "one of us" anymore :)) ?

WP - another link for you - tvn24.pl/anna-maria-anders-i-ian-brzezinski-o-ustawie-o-ipn-mamy-problem,813861,s.html - I know you'd appreciate a non-TVN24 link, but it's worth reading.

Reading between the lines, it looks like the Americans expect this law to be trashed or else. I can't say I like such threats...

These supposed counter arguments don't exactly equate in magnitude! Always easy to blame the victim for the act of the perpetrator.
@Maf, no need to try again, pal! Whether it's a few million vs. several hundred at Jedwabne, it was several hundred too many!

It is well known that jews have created both zionism and communism specifically bolshevism, trotskyism, marxism, leninism, etc. These ideologoes that jews created and helped spread have resulted in the deaths of exponentially more people than nazism or any other nationalist ideology. That is fact - indeed marxism leninism trotskyism, all subsets of socalism/communism, are named after their jewish creators.

Time and time again ziomist jews have pushed for one ideology for goys but the opposite for israel.

Even today i say a sign on some jewish center which said something about blacks and jews fighting together for equal human rights. Yet rhe majority of isreali jews, who are overwhemingly zionist, advocate for the deportation of african refugees... eveb legit refugees from eritrea, sudan, etc.

And since you stooped to insults, ill retort. I know its difficult for you to process facts which dont conveniently fit into your illogical liberal worldview. Care to offer a counter argument explaining how zionism leninism marxism etc arent jewish inventions responsible for the deaths of hundred of millions? Perhaps you should read zionism vs bolshevism by churchill since you fail to understand how one nation, jews specificakky, spread both zionism and communism - zionism to for themselves, communism for the goys.

Its time the jews pay up for what israel, zionists, and jewish communists have brought upon the world. If germany france switzerland can be collectively punished and exorted, so should the jewish people or at the very least israel

Agreed. But should Jews in the US feel collective guilt for the dispossession of tens of thousands (or more!) Palestinians? Do you support the Right of Return for Palestinians?

The history is complicated, since the role of primogeniture plays a significant part in all this going back to Biblical times, actually, pre-dating recorded history of the period.

There's a lot of that going around.


I don't believe in any religion so to me it looks just like one ethnic group pushing another out of land it wants for itself.

If Biblical Law existed, it might prove a very different story.

Well biblical law doesnt fly at the un. Palestine was a sovereign country till it was given to the zionist rothschild in exchange for lobbying the us to support britain in ww1. The brits promised the same land to the saudis for helping them against the ottoman. Seems they have a track record of not honoring treaties and agreements.

If 100 is 'too many' than what is the tens of millions killed thanks to marxist-leninist ideology for the most petty of reasons like having a sack of potatoes in the attic or being loyal to your democratically elected government? What about tens of thousands actual poles killed by their supposed 'fellow polish jews' who chose to ally with an invading army and take up aggressive ideologies like marxism-leninism despite the help given to them?

Poland should've kicked the known traitors out after their collaboration with the invading bolsheviks in the polish soviet war. If they liked the commie ussr so much amd swooned over trotsky lenin marx and half the generals in ussr then they shouldnt left poland which the majority despised. Pilsudzki shouldve rounded up all these traitors and collaborators and forced them to leave for good. The polish government and military knew the extent of collaboration with the ussr during the polish soviet war and interwar period. Yet theyd get short prison sentences and go right back to attempting to overthrow the democratically elected polish government.

@cms
If killing polish people, the most patriotic bravest souls from my motherland tens if not hundreds of thousands of whom risked their own lives to help the local jews - from ak members to peasants to generals to mere government in exile clerks, makes them 'more polish' than im glad you feel that way. Id never want to be grouped with backstabbers who kill their neighbors even after helping them and ally with an arch nemesis over a few rubles and a job. True poles would never sell out their countrymen and actually all of poland, to the ussr and to top it off kill their fellow poles by the tens of thousands.

This law is the first step in setting the record straight. Hopefully now patriotic groups and patriotic media outlets can take the opportunity to expose the extent of collaboration between so called polish jews and the ussr commies. There is no need to lie or embellish as theres tons of evidence and facts. Although polish adults, especially the older generations are aware of the horrible backstabbing of the motherland during these times, the youth are not. They must be educated on the fact that despite hundred of thousands if not millions of polish peoplebhelping local jews, majority of whom were totally unassimilated and didnt even speak polish let alone look or act polish not to mention the death penalty for helping jews - of whom thousands of poles received bc they wete caught helping or lying on behalf of jews, the majority of so called polish jews nonetheless backstabbed poland by fighting against the ak, killing thousands of its members, ran prison camps (morel) where poles from civilians to generals were executed, kangaroo courts (michnik) that killed poles even when the ussr didnt specifcially order ir, the UBs brutal oppression of mostly innocent poles, and immediately set upon killing poles esp ak members even though rhey helped jews through organizations like zegota, etc...

They must learn of this treachery and backstabbing so that history doesnt repeat itself a 3rd time - once during polish soviet war and interwar years and a second during and after ww2.

And to anyone who keeps insisting these so called polish jews are poles - they are not. Aside from the fact that they lived on polish lands and hence had pl/partition countrys citizenship, mainly in exclusively jewish areas there is nothing polish about most of them. The fact is that the majority of so called polish jews before and during ww2 most didnt speak or write polish, did not associate with poles, have little to no actual polish blood amd if they did itd only be due to miscegenation, did not participate in polish society or institutions instead going to yeshivas and parallel jewish institutions and even fought against poland and its institutions and people, did not dress, behave let alone look like poles, did not assimilate into polish society, and quite frankly the only contact they had with poles is if a pole went into their jewish quarter to buy something from one of their stores. The center of their lives were torah talmud organization which were the leaders of these jewish areas - not a polish mayor or something, no they had a rabbi instead.

Most of them didnt even know the words to mazurek dabrowski.... let alone how to sing it... but of course theyre the best poles that have ever lived on polish land... pffttt .... just bc you were born or live in poland or any country for that matter doesnt make you of that ethnicity. Theres plenty of white dutch people who were born and lived in rhodesia yet few would say their ethnicity is african or specifically Zimbabwean. Thats like saying johnny is jamaican because he lives there or saying that my chinese friend is of canadian ethnicity/descent because he was born and brought up in Vancouver... jews living in poland never were polish by descent or ethnicity save for some instances of miscegenation - which im sure the rabbi leader had a field day schooling a jew on sleeping with a shikza (the jewish word for a goy woman - implies *****, even used in polish today due to yiddish influence but has a different meaning

But..... it doesn't. Look, I don't have a dog in the Israeli Palestinian struggle over land, it's a scenario that's played out countless times in human existence and usually the better organized side wins - in this case that's the Israelis. It only bothers me when the Israelis expect people to recognize them as somehow entitled because of their religion. Nope. That don't play with me. Try again they're not special they're just pulling the same power dynamic that all groups do.

But a jew who lives here now and was born after 1945 murdered nobody, betrayed nobody. I know such people and they are true Poles - speaking Polish, living as good citizens, employing people and contributing much more to Polish society than an expat Pole spewing senseless and nihilistic ancient hatreds from his bedroom in Chicago.

Most white Zimbabweans would identity themselves as Zimbabwean in my experience- they certainly wouldnt say they were Dutch. Your obsession with blood and miscegenation is rooted in the 1930s - an era that most people except PiS and Orban would like to leave behind.

Amazed at the number of sensible people here talking about collective responsibility, reparations etc - what my grandparents did is nothing to do with me. Try to live your own lives right rather than rewriting the past

his own insecurities about his Polishness, since he's not especially Polish culturally (socio-anthropological meaning) he emphasizes the aspect where he is Polish in his mind palace and many who are Polish culturally aren't.

He's American isn't he?

In the ways that matter, yes. Poland seems to be an idealized Other.

Poles are the foundation and essence of Poland hence the name.

No surprise then to see uninvited Jewish carpetbaggers like yourself playing the "you first" game as a condition of fulfilling any part of a social contract especially when it comes to Jews holding themselves to account for negligence and crimes against their Polish neighbors.


and yet....


LOL! Talk about upholding an entitled double standard for Jews! How long have you been a Zionist?

You attempted to claim in post #121 of this thread that you "don't have strong feelings about Poles or Jews" but it is very clear that you really do have a biased and settled opinion about both.

You are absolutely fine with Jews living in Poland identifying as Jews even if they and generations before them never even set foot in synagogue. And if Jews want to call themselves Polish too then in your world that is only something to be celebrated.

Oh yes, oh yes! Blood and soil for the Jews and "civic nationalism" for everyone else! I have no doubt that both you and your cherished and revered Jewish friends can enthusiastically point out every parcel of land a Jewish family ever lived on or walked by and where there unvisited graves are.

Indeed, you already admitted in another post to going out of your way to visit the POLIN museum.

Why did you go there when it's nothing more than a temple of worship to ossified Jewish history and culture? You know, the whole Jewish blood thing and by extension their ridiculous concept of matrilineality to avoid miscegenation. You do know that "marrying out" is an entrenched Jewish aversion?

Since you are consistently critical of other posters' concerns about miscegenation then why don't you not only explain but justify the reason that there have been virtually no non-Caucisoid and mixed raced Jews and their rabbis walking around both back in the 1930s and right through to today in the 21st century?

Again, this double-standard is OK in your world. You just hope no one comes along points out this galling hypocrisy which you revel in while pretending to be a casual observer with no strong feelings about either Jews or Poles.

Before you launch into denials and mental gymnastics, show the forum where you and your Jewish friends (who in your "civic nationalist" mind are "true Poles") are actively opposing the foreign country named the "Jewish State of Israel" from interfering in Polish laws.

Whatever America expects, Poland backtracking on this now would basically be political suicide domestically.

Unless their plan is to get the constitutional tribunal, to whom the president sent the law for 'checking over' after he signed it, to say that it isn't in keeping with the constitution. This way the president can send it back for alterations to be made and keep the USA v[and their besties Israel] happy. Although I think this deceptive way of basically doing what the USA wants would be too see-through to the electoral base. What's done is done and I think they're just going to ride it out and hope that after some time people stop talking about it and they can move on.

Very interesting that Germany are not joining in the 'Holocaust law' criticism onslaught. First the foreign minister and now the the Chancellor both basically saying 'it was Germany's fault,' rather than criticising Poland.

reuters.com/article/us-israel-poland-germany/merkel-dodges-question-on-polands-new-holocaust-law-idUSKBN1FU105

I find it funny that she said she doesn't want to interfere in Poland's issues. Hah, you mean what the German run EU has been doing for ages now?

I wonder if this [sort of] 'supportive' stance to Poland is meant to soften them up for other things?

Perhaps mad cow Merkel will offer Poland reparations on the condition that Poland accept a demographic replacement quota of economic migrants.

Poland could then say any reparations money from Germany would need to go towards providing care and housing for economic migrants rather than Jewish claimants.

Pitting Zionist Jews against their beloved third-world economic migrants flooding into Europe would certainly expose the hidden racism of the virtue signaling diversity pimps out there.

The Left would certainly begin to eat itself.

When will you finally learn that this is money rightfully owed to my kin, and we will get it no matter what Canadian teenagers have to say about the matter?


Could just be that Germany doesn't want to get involved, nothing more. There's nothing to gain from them getting involved, and they can only lose - if they take Poland's side, the outrage from Israel would be tremendous - and if they take Israel's side, PiS will use it against Germany for domestic purposes. Best in this case to simply have no opinion on the matter, I think.

We?

I thought your checkered past and unemployability in Britain is what caused you to go into hiding in Poland. Now I see you have just been biding your time in the farfetched hope of saying you too are entitled to money simply for being Jewish.

Wake up! There is nothing in it for you or your fellow blood and soil klansmen.

Really ? When will my kin/father get compensated for getting shot up and two years out of his life for his contributions to end the Holocaust ?

Some of us are actively involved in returning properties rightfully owned by my kin, you know. It's such a pleasure watching the goyim's face after they realise that their cheap apartments are no more and that they have to pay market rates from now on.

It has been a rather profitable endeavour for many.