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Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'


cms 9 | 1,255
1 Feb 2018 #121
No it is not clear - any crime committed would probably be by a non polish speaker and then you would have to explain what Jarod means. If all the Poles in a certain village locked up all the Jews in that village in a barn and waited for the Nazis to collect them does that count as an action by the narod ?

I don't have strong feelings about Poles or Jews but like Maf I think this law is extremely poorly conceived - it does not effectively solve any problems but it does create new ones.
mafketis 29 | 10,316
1 Feb 2018 #122
If all the Poles in a certain village locked up all the Jews in that village... does that count as an action by the narod ?

Or even if just most of them did? Or a signifcant minority? Where's the line between individuals and the narod? How on earth do they expect to be able to enforce this against non-Polish-citizens who aren't in Poland?

Laws that are meant to have symbolic value (like this one) seldom work out or bring positive results in the real world.

This smells like a distraction (so that people wouldn't notice the terrible election 'reform') or other terrible PiS ideas waiting in the wings....
OP WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
1 Feb 2018 #123
If all the Poles in a certain village locked up all the Jews in that village in a barn and waited for the Nazis to collect them does that count as an action by the narod?

No, if such a thing took place, it wouldn't count as an action by the narod, it would count as a despicable act committed by a village in Poland.

People say that the law is unclear, but perhaps it is written in such a way to allow room for some common sense and treat each case separately?

If a teenager visits Auschwitz and asks about the Polish death camp, he should have it explained to him that there is no Polish death camp. If, on the other hand, a journalist purposely writes about how Poland co-operated with Germany and set up death camps with them, that's a blatant lie and should be punished. It should depend on who said it and if they said it knowingly. The courts will then be able to decide case by case.

Personally I think the phrase 'jak nie wiadomo o co chodzi to wiadomo o co chodzi' fits perfectly here. This isn't really about Israel being upset that Poland is trying to deny the Holocaust - they know it isn't doing that. It's about money.

If Germany and Poland are both responsibly for the murder of millions of Jews, then they both have to cough up. If Poland isn't guilty, it becomes a problem. It's no coincidence to me that the USA is also getting involved and trying to stop Poland from passing this law, given how they are trying to put S.447 through themselves.

congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/447/text?format=txt

Basically Israel looked at this Polish law and panicked, believing Poland was trying to cleans themselves of any wrongdoing. This would make it harder to extract money from them in future, if Poland was just as much a victim as the Jewish people.

I'm not even going to go in to other facts that are seldom spoken of and slightly derail the 'Jews were nothing but victims' compensation narrative - such as the fact that Jews themselves also co-operated with the Nazis and turned in other Jews. Or how some Jews turned Polish people in to the Soviets. Or that big powerful Jewish organisations in the USA knew what was going on and did nothing. Who's going to compensate for that?
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #124
funny,you never hear about "polish death camps" from Russian media.we are now attacked by the USA.western media and out allies are openly spitting on polish people.

Poland needs to reassess its allegiances
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
1 Feb 2018 #125
So you suggest Poland should immediately start subscribing to a safe place under Vladimir Putin's umbrella? Strangely, but this has been an idea cherished for a long time by some of the "true Polish patriots" posting here.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #126
safe place under Vladimir Putin's umbrella

we dont need anyones umbrella nor fake "friends"
we can do business with Putin and be realistic about our "friends" motives
OP WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
1 Feb 2018 #127
@Ziemowit

Why are you just copy and pasting your reply to different people?

Sure there are probably people here who are happy about this rift and hope Poland turns on the USA and finds a friend in Russia. Many of us don't see it that way though. Just because Poland is having issues with Israel and the USA right now, doesn't mean Russia are suddenly their great comrades.

I would much rather Poland have the USA as allies, but America has to understand that being an ally or a partner doesn't give them [or their best buddies Israel] carte blanche to instruct the Polish government what laws they can and can't pass and how they should be written.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
1 Feb 2018 #128
we can do business with Putin

I can assure you that Putin does business only with those at least as powerful as Russia itself. Otherwise, you can become his "client" merely. Anyway, America does the same, but they are much more civil than Putin's Russia.

Are you a true Polish patriot, Greggy?
Ironside 51 | 11,510
1 Feb 2018 #129
here's the line between individuals and the narod?

Where is the line between nation and criminals?

Anyway Poland should stop supporting Israel and make any business with them.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #130
, but they are much more civil than Putin's Russia.

tell this to Vietnamese,or afganis or syrians or libyans or iraquis or serbs or citizens of hiroshima

Are you a true Polish patriot, Greggy?

yes..thats why i know that western powers despise us,use us and are "friends" when its suit them.
you recognize your real friends when you in trouble
27 years of building relation with USA and Israel..Poland is most pro USA and Israel country in the world...and you see now, what it means for them
Atch 16 | 3,415
1 Feb 2018 #131
Just because Poland is having issues with Israel and the USA

And don't forget a sizeable number of their EU partners as well :))
Ironside 51 | 11,510
1 Feb 2018 #132
Nah only German and France they can take a long walk on a short pier.
Atch 16 | 3,415
1 Feb 2018 #133
Well that's not accurate. If you want the facts, look at the voting record for the recent Article 7 vote. Look at how each EU member state voted. For example every Irish MEP voted in favour of the motion. Now Ireland always has good relations with all its EU partners and doesn't have any hatred towards Poland but they do feel concern about the rule of law issue, thus the vote. Even some of Poland's closest neighbours such as Czech Republic voted in favour of Article 7.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #134
Kremlin refused to criticize Poland in regard of this bill.USA took 24 hours to demand and defame Poland.strange..i tho Putins is planning to invade Poland and US is out friend? whats happening?

has Putin hacked USA servers again,and sent those threats to Poland?
Atch 16 | 3,415
1 Feb 2018 #135
People like Putin are in power because of eejits like you - are you really that much of a simpleton?? 'Mummy, the Russian man was nice, he didn't say bad things about us, but the American man is a big old meanie'. Cop on to yourself, would you.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
1 Feb 2018 #136
Well that's not accurate

No, that is very accurate. Those two countries are movers and shakers of the EU. Small insignificant countries and those indebted to their eyeballs just follow them to curry a favor with them.

Kremlin

Just give it up. Putin and Russian is not an option for Poland.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #137
no
..commonwealth rebirth is..intermarrium. Poland Ukraine Belarus Hungary Czech Slovakia
build big wall along Oder.fok them western libtard caliphates.
with Putin and western europe we will make buisness.no need fake friends
Atch 16 | 3,415
1 Feb 2018 #138
Small insignificant countries and those indebted to their eyeballs just follow them to curry a favor with them.

Well in this case that's 21 of the remaining 26 member states. Because that's how many voted in favour of beginning the Article 7 process.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #139
People like Putin are in power because of eejits like you - are you really that much of a simpleton??

common..dont pretend that you dont see glorious genius in my visions!!!
or maybe my sophisticated ideas are to complex to understand...hmmm it could be that.
i dont care about Putin in Power or who put him there.
am disgusted by our allies treachery..yet another one.
Atch 16 | 3,415
1 Feb 2018 #140
Quite frankly dear, I think they're beyond even your own comprehension, such as it is.
Crow 152 | 9,747
1 Feb 2018 #141
Problems with Jews are bad luck, no matter the reason. Poles, my sisters and brothers, listen to me. Time is for you to call upon services of Serbian FM Ivica Dacic. Don`t wait, call him. He is right now most powerful diplomat in Europe. He will know what to tell to Israel.
michael.aduski
1 Feb 2018 #142
Polish government officials Need more English classes! "Polish concentration camps" doesn't necessarily mean that These camps were Setup and run by Poles. In English this can perfectly well mean The concentration camps were geographically located in Poland. It is unnecessary to specify "German concentration camps" because it is bleeding obvious to everyone with half a brain that These camps were set up by German nazis.
Crow 152 | 9,747
1 Feb 2018 #143
But, Poles are right to oppose to term `Polish concentration camps`. Its nonsense.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #144
obvious to everyone

huh?
i read somewhere about survey.i which 70% of american taking part in survey though that Germany was US ally during 2 world war.
Crow 152 | 9,747
1 Feb 2018 #145
This and many other things are problems due to violated international order. Financially stronger can molest those who are weaker for all sorts of reasons. Poles didn`t developed genocidal ideology for extermination of Jews and rightfully they don`t wish to see term `Polish death camps`. In that respect Poles can tell to both, to Germans and to Jews, `go f*** yourself but not over Polish heads`. Especially if we have in mind that during era of slavery Germanics and Jews were united in hunting the Slavs and particularly ancestors of modern day Poles.
johnny reb 31 | 6,311
1 Feb 2018 #146
Kremlin refused to criticize Poland in regard of this bill.

Maybe that is because Russia knows that Poland has not forgotten about the Gulag prisons (Russian death camps) in Russia that not only did Jews but so many Poles disappeared from because of the inhumane conditions.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Feb 2018 #147
Poland has not forgotten about the Gulag prisons (Russian death camps)

i think..it would be in the best interest of the jewish diaspora not to remind anyone about Gulags death camps.and not mentioning of Gulags commanders names
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,802
1 Feb 2018 #148
Not to mention sb and especially ub leadership, which was responsible for killing tons of poles esp ak fighters. You know, people like michniks family.
Crow 152 | 9,747
1 Feb 2018 #149
Kremlin refused to criticize Poland in regard of this bill.

Good move by Russians. I salute that.

Maybe that is because Russia knows that Poland has not forgotten about the Gulag prisons

Your comment has the ground but, its another question. Its the question that should be solved between Poles and Russians, in some Russian compensation to Poland for Polish loses. Its obvious.

But, Poles and Russians won`t make any progress if they aren`t able to admit good things to each others but only bad things. In this case, its good that Russians support Poles on this matter of `death camps`.
Atch 16 | 3,415
1 Feb 2018 #150
i think..it would be in the best interest of the jewish diaspora not to remind anyone about Gulags

Well now Gregy let's not forget that Stalin who was responsible for the Gulags in the first place was quite a promsing student at the seminary where he was training for the Orthodox Catholic priesthood. Let's give the Catholics their fair share of the blame for the Gulags.


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