Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

wow..official statement from German foreign minister Sigmar Gabriel .he took Polands side on this,saying "it is wholly Germanys responsibility for holocaust,and "polish death camp" is wrong and false

nice one ,finally someone with some common sense.sad that our Tusko-matol ,prezident of EU kolchoz attacked authors of this bill ,says it all

Why the wow ? Germans have invested a lot into the whole "call them Nazis, not Germans" thing but openly they never said that. They must say it's their responsibility, that's obvious. Besides, what are we talking about ? 97% of the world will side with us on this one, the louder Jews are screaming, the better for us.

Same with American sanctions, give me a break :)) Even Wall Street Jews would choke. So we shouldn't take even 1 step back, full ahead :)) Feck the xenophobes.

didnt expect Germany to get involved,especially on Polands side in this conflict.all this pushing blame on Poland was in their interests after all.

good that they had decency to say it laud that Poland had nothing to do with it..look even Donald Tusk said nothing,but blamed PIS.

Gabriel's right, and exhibits considerable sensitivity to the entire Israeli dynamic as well. Maybe the well-documented fact that his father in particular was an unabashed Nazi sympathizer might have something to do with his thoughtful stance:-)

I was only repeating what some of our Polish and PolAm members stated here on PF: get Poland out of the EU.

Personally, I believe that'd be nuts.


Most likely not. The times when the Germans could be shamed into some self-flagellation are almost over.

I would agree.

It is so sad that such a hallabaloo has been generated over this harmless statement "Polish death camps". Sadly the meaning was lost in translation for Poles. If I say Polish BMWs it doesn't mean that I am saying BMWs were designed and built by Poles. It simply means the BMWs that are geographically located in Poland. Same thing with Polish death camps, it does not mean Poles designed and built the camps. This whole furor illustrates the critical importance of having good translators.

@gregy741 - yes you can call the Japanese hiroshima bomb the "Japanese nuclear bomb" in English. It can mean Japanese built it but not necessarily. It depends on the context as it can equally "simply" mean the bomb was located in Japan or dropped there or whatever. Death camps in south africa can be called just death camps if it is obvious the reference is to British designed and run. Same is obvious about concentration camps. Everyone with half a brain knows the German nazis cooked them up.

@WielkiPolak - Yes, you could say Polish Nike Stores. In English it is perfect. You could say Polish nike store to distinguish nike stores in poland from elsewhere on the planet.

@Mafketis - Yes there was no Polish state at the time however the term does not say there was. "Polish death camps" can equally mean death camps "that were" located in present day Polish territory.

@shockedinpoland - There was no Polish state to collaborate with Nazis. It makes no sense for Israelis to have said that and I think you misunderstood. Why would the Polish govt in exile collaborate with an occupying power. No, what israel is saying is that although thousands of Poles saved Jews, 1000s also gave them up for rewards. these were individual Poles not the Polish state and the law is too fuzzy in distinguishing bw the 2.

It might be related in this specific case. Gabriel has often stressed how much his father (with whom he had non-existing relationship) has influenced his personal conviction.

and there you have it, am I baying for the blood for the random Jewish partisans that supported the soviet invaders, no I think of my grandfathers jewish neighbours that brought in his crop while he was out fighting the Bolsheviks.if they want to twist history and say the Polish nation was complicit then stuff em.

Leave em to the Palestinians and their friendly border states.

got it..my english is not perfect,so i take your word for it.
so french wermacht army fought french army in battle of France,and Polish wermacht army fought Polish army in September campaign...now."polish death camps" make sense

also i believe english luftwaffe fought english air defence in battle of england.

Don't forget the Polish RAF Pilots would split off at random and blow up jews as of course Poland was really on the side of the Nazis

ahhh,forgot to add
since bomb can be call Japanese bomb in English ..now, we can conclude with no doubt ,that Japanese collaborated with USA in dropping it on hiroshima..how could they do such thing to own people??!!!!

Not to mention the German terror attack during the Munich olympics.... or the American terror attack on NYC in 2001....

Jews and Poles are closer than you think. Even today, centuries of Jewish blood runs silently and secretly through millions of Polish veins. 1/3 of Poland was Jewish. Both before and especially after the war there was much mixing, much "integration" under pressure and then marriage into Polish families... All this has been brushed under the carpet. Poles and Jews have reason to be great friends. The past is the past but the future may be sunny.

Well, it's actually referred to as the 'Munich attack' or the 'Munich Massacre'. So that means Munich attacked someone and massacred someone, yeah?

don't be ridiculously obtuse Observer - everyone know cities cannot attack contrary to nations

How about a big leap in renewables developing a car powered by....
" blame"?

Yeah that short spell between late 60' and early 90'. Before they were quite proud of they heroes and some of the most notorious butchers were a respectable members of the society, mayors, head of this or that, you name it.

In meantime they threw a lot of money on the problem - Jews and Israel. So now they are kind of best buddies.
In meantime no compensation were paid to Poland for material loses, not to mention slave work, contributions and loot were 1000's of art, gold and stuff went missing.

Germans and Jews agree in one issue, there two kind of victims in WWII, so innocent and saintly Jews and you know ..the Holocaust ohhhh....and Poles who to be honest (according to THEM people) had I coming and who cares about some filthy anti-Semitic peasants.


That is a traitor that would side with Germans during WWII like his grandpa. Lest not talk about this scum.


Can they name them? Those who give up Jews? At least most of them I hope can be named. Otherwise it sound like a another Jewish myth - all are against us. (there were few scum like in any populace - so what? nation has nothing to do with it)

Anyways, Jews have their scum, murderess and collaborators too. I understand they are to be excused as they were JEWs and there is no place in this cartoonish narrative for Jews that weren't either saintly or that weren't a saintly victims.

In 1939 - 1941 in Soviet occupied Poland situation of those two societies had been reversed. I tell you that Jews weren't behaving one bit better towards their Polish neighbours, somehow no one is asking Jewish nation to take responsibility for their scum and to pay compensations.

I think it should change.

Peace and love my friends.. Here's a nice tribute video of a trully great global role model for human peace and love - Nelson Mandela. .youtube.com/watch?v=BGS7SpI7obY

In the end it is the purveyors of love who will be remembered fondly and with respect. Those who trade in hate and ignorance will be consigned to the garbage bin of history. Poles have become one of the most despised immigrant groups in the UK just because of the tendency towards hatred and bigotry you see in too many.

@Ironside - It is true the relationship between Jews and Poles was often poor (though certainly not always - why did so many Poles save Jews?) before the war. Of course Jews should have some responsibility as they tended to isolate themselves and frown on integration with "gentiles".... Especially orthodox jews who even in Israel, have little respect and don't integrate with secular /atheist jews. You can imagine what it would be like in shtetl's with orthodox jews and catholic polish villagers living side by side. Not easy. So yes, orthodox jews are not an easy group to live side by side with even for secular jews! Of course, that's no execuse for what happened during the war!

I suggest you read this interesting account of a Jewish family living in Poland from around end of 19th century. It presents the positives and negatives of the Polish experience in quite a balanced way.

amazon.co.uk/Mosaic-Chronicle-Generations-Diane-Armstrong-ebook/dp/B003QCJ6NG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517740056&sr=8-1&keywords=mosaic+a+chronicles+of+5+generation

Not all Jews fit the stereotype of being rich, stingy, usurous, yadayada. There are millions of poor young jews today who are struggling in the same way as poor young Poles. High cost of living, lack of jobs etc. It is true that culturally Jews worked harder than Poles in Poland. Immigrants always do. Go and see Polish immigrants in london for ex. In Poland, they would have often excelled leading to resentment among the Polish natives. Basically jealousy is what mainly fuelled antisemtism. Even amongst Polish catholic families there is high jealousy of each other let alone of strangers. Certainly if you listen to holocaust survivor testimonials (some married Poles after the war by the way...) this is the common refrain - that the Poles just couldn't handle the success of some jews.

Regarding Poles who murdered jews or gave them up for some paltry Nazi rewards, of course no one can name these Poles as the jews who they gave up are dead. Here is an interesting account estimating 200.000 jews died this way and there is no acknowledgement of this in Poland. It's all brushed under the carpet.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-42920934

what??!!!!!!


get lost with this garbage
not sure ,you serious or just trolling

I am not trolling. I simply quoted a figure in the linked article.

Seriously Poland must be careful these days. To be so brash in terms of this kind of law, further isolates the country from the West. Polish government must be more carefuly. Already Poland can't trust Russia and with very good reason. To go full on against Jews is very unwise if Poland wants good relations with the US and the EU who have already condemned the Polish government for pushing this law.

The more that this continues, the more Poland risks lack of support from EU/US in any invasion by Russia (a disturbing but likely possibility). Why not make a law instead to acknowledge 3 million Poles who dies in the war. A law to mourn their loss just like the jews mourn their loss of 3 million? Poles lost the same amount. No one would hold that against Poland. Instead we have this law to prevent people accusing Polish state of collaborating with Nazis which no one in their right mind who claim anyway. All that is well known, is that polish individuals (not the state) widely renounced jews to Nazis for rewards or killed Jews themselves.

you delusional? or 12 years old. Israel is hated in the west europe. almost all west Europe leaders are pro Palestinians..Poland was a rare supporter of Israel policies in middle east.


fok relation with fascist state of lairs..good bye


what? where did you get this from?is that sort of garbage they feed you in Tel Aviv?
and for the rest garbage with bad Russia...best not to comment such idioce..
guess what?they would never call Auschwitz a "polish death camp"

I must be missing a point but is the description 'Polish death camps' such a widespread problem that it is necessary to introduce a new law...I have never used the term 'Polish death camps' and have only used the terms 'concentration camps....Auschwitz'.....etc I have never heard other people use this term....but maybe the figures are much higher than we all think.

Are there that many people using the term 'Polish death camps' to make it necessary to introduce a new law, making this reference illegal...?

@gregy - nice summary of the current situation...
bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172vr1l9ztq5m2

It is important for Poles to commemorate their losses too. The Germans actually set up Auschwitz for the Poles; only later did the Jewish transports come. One problem may be how many people are unwilling to hear the Polish story. The Poles were subjected to genocide as rightly stated in the indictment of the Nuremberg Tribunal in 1945. Millions of Poles were killed; millions sent to concentration or slave labor camps; up to 200,000 Polish children were kidnapped by the Germans; many hundreds of thousands were expelled from their homes; many lost livelihoods; all were fearful of arrest - the Germans regularly conducted 'razzias', round-ups, grabbing people off the streets to feed concentration camps.

The German raided and plundered Polish property, e.g., requisitioning food from Polish farmers to feed Germany; hunger was rife, smuggling of food into Polish cities dangerous. And within this the Germans perpetrated the Holocaust on Polish territory. There have been for many years accusations that Poles wanted the Holocaust, that the Poles gladly participated in the Holocaust. But one must acknowledge that Poles were the only group on which that the Germans felt the need to impose the death penalty for aiding Jews. And the Germans killed thousands of Poles under this decree. A big part of the uproar is the concern that the law prohibits accusations against individuals. It appears Polish govt is not denying that that some Polish individuals did not behave rightly and harmed Jews. Clarification is all that is needed here to close this matter and restore Israeli Polish relations.

The law is limited to the Polish State and the Polish Nation not being complicit with Germans crimes and this is true - there was no complicity by any official Polish authority or organization. It is important to bring Polish story just as well as Jewish history into focus and force people to reflect on the horrid experience Poland's catholics and jews suffered at the hands of German racism.

Key word here an estimation. Meaning that is a guess. It could be well 200. Anyway WTF are you saying there is no recognition of it in Poland? I guess you are fluent in Polish and know all there is about historical education in Poland. If not - why the hell you are talking out of your anus ?

Israeli want somthing else, they want to blame actions of some individuals that were shunned and punished by the majority of Poles on the whole nation.

In that case Israeli should take on respisblity for those individual Jews (or bands) that made a lot of harm to Poles and other nations, what good for a goose ....

What they really want it?


lol! Assuming that it is a fact. By the same logic Jews anti-Semitics is perfectly justifiable due to their tendency to hate and bigotry. Adolf are you sure you're trolling the right forum?


No shyte Sherlock. Most Jews in pre-war Poland were poor and illiterate, at least before a younger generation of Jews got their education after 1918.

As to why many Poles were helping Jews - because they were Christians. I mean you may like your friend or a neighbor but of for helping him you would put yourself and your whole family in the front of the f 'like' doesn't cut it, it takes it all to quite another dimension.

It is easy to talk BS and moralize in the safety of your house today.
I think Israelis F themselves over with this attack on Poland. They gonna lose big time in the long run. Just take a seat.

The Poles destroyed my whole family. Shame on those

This whole thread is filled with Anti-Semitism... it makes me sick. Still, kol b'seder. You will get your due - Bibi will make sure of that.

@Ironside... here is an interesting article. theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/02/poland-holocaust-free-speech-nazi

It seems people are arguing at cross purposes. We all agree I hope :

1) Polish state did not collaborate in the holocaust. That is a ridiculous assertion with no evidence and honestly I haven't heard anyone make it so don't know what fuss is about.

2) 1000s of Poles saved Jews. There are more Poles at Jad Vashem than any other nation. Poles should be proud. This was a sign of true Christian kindness.

3) 3 million Poles were murdered by the Germans. Jews were not the only victims here.

4) Many Poles denounced Jews to the Germans for rewards. Many Poles condemn their fellow nationals for this.

From the article linked :


theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/02/poland-holocaust-free-speech-nazi

My grandfather died because his neighbours betrayed him to the SS. Shame on Poland.

All of them? If someone would say that about the Jews you would jump out of your skin shouting anti-Semitism. Take a look in the mirror buddy are not you not turning into something you allegedly hate?


Bibi can suck on it.
I hope Poland will stop supporting Israel, your good friend Putin surly will help you. lol! Russia already send there plenty of 'ambassadors'. They are supposedly Jewish lol!

@Igal, you musn't blame all Poles for the crimes of some who are all long since dead. It is no better than an anti-semite saying all Jews are this or that. That is also nonsense. In every society there is bad fruit. Polish catholics lost 3 million and Jews also lost 3 million. Both were victims. Yes Poles gave up and even murdered Jews during the war and that is regrettable to I hope most Poles. But Poles also saved 1000s of Jews at great personal risk. Let's not forget that either for it is the true shining star of Poland when it comes to Jewish relations.