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Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'


Casual Observer
2 Feb 2018 #241
Deja vu - you tried that one yesterday (post 195) and it didn't really work (post 197). See you again tomorrow!
G (undercover)
2 Feb 2018 #242
If American "alliance" is dependent on the will of of some psychos from a small non-NATO country, then to hell with such an ally. Especially that a significant number of Israelis are basically Russians. It's better to make it clear in advance. Just like in 39 for Poland it would have been much better to not have "allies", then at least we could buy some time instead of showing the middle finger to "Nazis" thinking that we have real allies.

At least nobody should be surprised if Poland ends up somewhat isolated in the future.

Oh my ! Be very afraid. We are already "isolated" and guess what, the real world doesn't give a feck. I work with Gerries on a daily basis and didn't notice It makes the slightest impact on the real work. What's more, If you go check the international internet forums, the real ones, not some "moderated" crap from the msm, 3/4 of the people side with Poland on this one, with the rest mostly being either Jews or some freaks. Same with "refugees" and most other things. We are "isolated" in a parallel universe created by the out of touch with reality "establishment".

Well, like I said, Israel was founded by Holocaust survivors.

Harrold, "survivors" were a minority and they were commonly pushed around and called "soap" until these folks figured out they can make political and financial profits out of the whole thing.
Tacitus 2 | 1,382
2 Feb 2018 #243
then to hell with such an ally.

Poland needs allies if it wants security against Russia, disregarding them for purely domestic reasons is a folly.

We are already "isolated" and guess what, the real world doesn't give a feck.

We shall see. Perhaps this what PiS is after, the create a siege mentality among its' voters once it becomes clear that Poland is being sidelined on issues that it considers vital for its' security or prosperity.
Ironside 53 | 12,424
3 Feb 2018 #244
It was incidental that a person in a camp was Polish,

Geez, you are as deep as a shallow puddle and so is your 'knowledge'.

Well, like I said, Israel was founded by Holocaust survivors.

Another golden slogan that doesn't convey any info. Keep going and you will soon become my favorite poster.

domestic posturing

Hmm posturing. Since when telling the truth about your own historical past is posturing?
Ironside 53 | 12,424
3 Feb 2018 #245
Poland needs allies

Poland has allies. NATO - Does it rings any bells. Unless NATO will kick Poland out due to some sh...storm by some not NATO country. Until that time al that talk about isolation and blah blah is just scream ringing and putting pressure on Poland and Poles.

Here is a milled finger as a response!
Casual Observer
3 Feb 2018 #246
Poland has allies. NATO - Does it rings any bells

Maybe this will ring some bells for you. NATO is bankrolled by the USA, and to a lesser extent by the UK. Without those two nations, primarily the USA, NATO doesn't mean a thing. Trump has publicly undermined the 'holy' NATO pact of mutual defence, by saying that the USA wouldn't necessarily abide by it.

The basic fact is that Israel draws more water in the USA than Poland does, and as Trump doesn't care for the NATO pact, it becomes irrelevant if Poland or Israel is in NATO or not. If push comes to shove, it's Israel first. And if Russia decided to invade Poland, it'd be 'America First', which means not sacrificing US lives for Polish soil, especially if it came to a nuclear threat. It simply wouldn't happen - no US govt is going to risk a nuclear attack on New York for the sake of a Russian flag over Warsaw. It just isn't worth that much to them.

If it came to a ground skirmish, it would be EU forces fighting it once the Polish had been annihilated, not American (at least at first). That means Germany and France, and possibly the UK in an oblique war like in Ukraine. Now, do you think for a second that German readers of Deutsche Welle are going to support their leaders in sending German kids to defend Polish soil, after all the slaggings off they read from PiS? Is Angela Merkel really going to send German troops to die for Kaczynski? Is Macron? Is May? No way, Jose! Russia has nukes.

So, forget NATO, cos NATO is the USA and the UK, and neither care anymore, they are both withdrawing from the world.

If Poland wants to rely on the mighty armies of Hungary and Czech to defend its borders, then good luck - it will need it. Otherwise, it might be time to start playing grown-up diplomacy, and knowing who its allies are, and understanding where their priorities lie.

That means bending with the wind, because Poland is not anybody's closest ally, except Hungary.
G (undercover)
3 Feb 2018 #247
If push comes to shove, it's Israel first. And if Russia decided to invade Poland, it'd be 'America First'

Both rules apply even If we bow to Jews 24/7.

it would be EU forces fighting

You are mental :))))

Poland needs allies if it wants security against Russia

So when was last time Russian air force violated Polish air space or any other similar incident ?

Perhaps this what PiS is after, the create a siege mentality

Apparently it's the EUnuchs/globalists that want us to believe big evil Russians are just waiting behind next corner and therefore we need to "obey" or else Russians will eat us alive.

Well, we don't buy it, to put it mildly :))
mafketis 37 | 10,884
3 Feb 2018 #248
Israel is a paranoid state, for lots of reasons, so it's diplomatically stupid to go anywhere near any issue that might get Israel crying

Past a certain point, treading on eggshells to keep them from flying into narcissistic rage is just enabling their hysteria.

I agree with the video that future reparations from Poland are the real cause. If Poland's ill-conceived quest for reparations from Germany ever bears fruit Israelis (and some other Jewish people) are going to be making a bee line to get as big a chunk of it for themselves as possible.
shockedInpoland
3 Feb 2018 #249
once the Polish had been annihilated,

Russia's military would grind to a halt 75km into Poland., much as they did in Ukraine. Russia's army and equipment is no way capable of invading any country bigger than Latvia.

Russia made its plans clear - they would nuke Warsaw and probably some bases. What Nato and the US would do in this situation is unclear , but Poland's laws will have no bearing on it whatsoever.
David555 1 | 19
3 Feb 2018 #250
Poland had plenty of allies in wwi and wwii
Thanks to England and its bravery and Churchill and raf and the Queen Poland was freed from Nazis and it became free country.
If it wasn't for England and France and rest of allies Polish people would speak German today
Ktos 16 | 440
3 Feb 2018 #251
Hey troll, why are you here? your last post smells of troll.
gregy741 5 | 1,232
3 Feb 2018 #252
Russia's military would grind to a halt 75km into Poland., much as they did in Ukraine

last time Russian army was directly involved in conflict was Georgia.and they roll over them in 2 weeks.
Russia army was stopped halt in Ukraine? u stupid?
the only direct involvement of Russia(denied and never confirmed) was debalceve..and they ripped apart Ukrainian army

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debaltseve
Ktos 16 | 440
3 Feb 2018 #253
@Ironside

What a weirdo and to think we dated not so long ago. You are showing a finger to anyone? Where are your good manners? Showing finger is western, are you a westerner? NATO a Polish ally? Hahahahahahah, more like a puppet master getting Poland to do dirty and unnecessary work in Iraq and Afganistan.
gumishu 13 | 6,140
3 Feb 2018 #254
Poland was freed from Nazis and it became free country

oh yes Poland was freed from Nazis only to be grabbed by Soviet-style Soviet-backed communists who installed a rule of terror - maybe you stopped reading your history book before it mentioned it - or maybe your history book was written in the 70's when the UK was run by Soviet apologists
Casual Observer
3 Feb 2018 #255
Russia's army and equipment is no way capable of invading any country bigger than Latvia.

As gregy741 pointed out, they did a pretty good job of overunning Georgia, and have also been decisive in Syria. In Ukraine they use special units to merge with local forces and punch holes. With the border with Kaliningrad, Poland is very vulnerable.

Russia routinely crosses or skims NATO airspace - interceptions over the Baltic and North Sea have become routine.

The UK military, the seocnd biggest in NATO, issues a statement last month that it is in danger of no longer being capable of matching Russian capabilities, which are advancing rapidly.

So, we have the biggest component of NATO defence that has publicly undermined the NATO pact ('we might not honour it'), and the second biggest component saying that it will not be able fight off Russia. And we have an expansionist Russia who has invaded and annexed parts of Poland's next-door neighbour, and last year held wargames where the objective was the invasion and overunning of Poland. One would think that would be a cause for concern in Poland...

The USA has an unreliable, narcissistic and petulant leadership who expects 'tribute' like a medieval King, has just shown that he puts Israel above anyone else. Like it not, Poland is utterly dependent on this moron and his hysterical little friend in the Holy Land for its long-term security.

Poland is not a major power, it is not a major global trade partner, it is not a major lobby, and it has an increasingly poor international reputation (even Trump's USA has sounded concern over the rule of law). Materially, it matters very little to the USA if the buffer zone between Russia and the big economies in Europe is Ukraine (at present) or Poland, as in the Cold War.

If Poland becomes Ukraine, nobody loses very much except Poland, which loses everything. The only thing that could stop Poland becoming Ukraine, should anyone try, is the USA and UK military capability. The USA's policy is entwined with Israel. Poland needs to face facts - to keep in USA's good books, it needs to kiss Hebrew ass, because that is the pecking order.
Ironside 53 | 12,424
3 Feb 2018 #256
No, it doesn't. Israel showed its true colors and can go F itself.
USA regardless of their ties with Israel would have to make choices of their own. If they decide to abandon Europe and voluntarily give up their advantage and business opportunities in this part of the European continent just because of some internal legislation of Poland. Well, Goodbye!

Poland has no choice and must remain firmly on course and give in one ounce.
The way Israeli orchestrated that unprecedented attack pretty much closed out any other options that might have existed before.

The next stop should be withdraw of any financial support on Jewish stuff in Poland. In support of Israeli interest worldwide and to withdraw from any business, cultural or political deals with Israel, Israeli citizen and business.

The very good move would be to close up Polish embassy in Israel.

AH and IF they want to send their kids to Poland for tours of WWII camps, there should be obligatory three day course on REAL historical facts prepared by Polish specialists.
Casual Observer
3 Feb 2018 #257
Well, Goodbye!

Well, fine. The USA will just go and talk/trade to Germany or Ireland or any other country. Poland, meanwhile, is left defenceless.

You have not answered the point about Poland will be defended (e.g. against Russian incursion) if you say "Goodbye" to USA. Can you answer what the alternative defence strategy would be?
cms 9 | 1,255
3 Feb 2018 #258
Why ? - i happliy deal with Israelis the same as i would with a Czech or a Canadian. You think people are supposed to sever business contacts just because of some poorly drafted politicians nonsense cooked up in the middle of the night to keep the mohers distracted ?
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,585
3 Feb 2018 #259
Yay bill has passed. Now israel can go back to killing teenagers who throw rocks at their tanks and bombing civilian infrastructure and leave poland alone
Ironside 53 | 12,424
3 Feb 2018 #260
Well, fine. The USA will just go

That is the risk Poland must take. IF USA will just go over some obscure internal legislation some crazy ass country like Israel objected to. I say Good Bye.

USA business and support is need for Poland to become and an independent strong and self-reliant entity. Caving in to some crazy ass demands of some xenophobic fascist people who hate all others for not reason at all from a far away land just to appease some greedy circles in the USA that love shekels goes contrary to all the purpose of having a close ties to America.

Poland could has stayed a nice little lap dog to Germany if that a case without having to go all that rigmarole just to become a pawn and a lap dog to a different power.

The way out of t his stalemate would be give in to the Jewish criminal racket (obviously supported by some Israeli authorities if not all) and pay 60 billion American dollars. I'm against that for a number of reason, mainly due to a golden rule - you don't give in to extortionists because they'll come back for more.

I would rather use it to strengthen Poland's position by building a worldwide Polish TV in English and by acquiring nuclear weapons in a short order.

Why ?

To show them there are consequences and it will cost them as well. As for you, you can have all the deal you want, you can even s. their d, for free if that is your want.

I'm talking about the state policy. No more open doors for their business of firms, no arm deals and not joint military actions. No political of financial support for anything Israeli or Jewish.
G (undercover)
3 Feb 2018 #261
last time Russian army was directly involved in conflict was Georgia.and they roll over them in 2 weeks.

Georgia is a tiny country with barely any military + they took a part of the country and withdrew quickly. It was "I will give you a lesson" kind of action, not the real war. They wouldn't be able to do anything like that in Poland even with our underfunded army. Increase defence spendings by just 10-15% and spend it wisely, not on stupid Patriot missiles for instance, and in 5 years we wouldn't have to care about Russians. Sure they still will be able to conquer Poland but the costs will make it totally senseless.

Besides, how is Russia threatening us ? At some point in the future they might become a problem but surely not any time soon. The west/globalists are clearly using Russia as a kind of boogeyman. Behave and listen to us or evil Russians will come and get you. Boo hoo hoo ! Putin sucks in many ways but let's be hones, we share a border with Russia, there are many military bases on both sides in that area, so how many "incidents" were there during last years ?

The USA will just go and talk/trade to Germany or Ireland or any other country.

LOL ! Good luck with telling that to the US business :)))
OP WielkiPolak 56 | 1,008
3 Feb 2018 #262
I think the main problem Israel and the USA have is that they underestimated just how patriotic and proud PiS are. They thought that if they reacted negatively enough to the law, PiS would back out of it, or at least alter it, but they'er not doing that and this is probably frustrating them. You can see the frustration in the faces of the Israeli 'friends of Poland.'

If a leftist government was at the helm in Poland, they would start apologising and talking about how ashamed they are of what their countrymen did or how awful their nation was during the war and would drop the law in a second. Nope, patriotic right-wing governments don't grovel like that.
Casual Observer
3 Feb 2018 #263
Good luck with telling that to the US business

USA has a trade deficit with Poland. Business is worth squat to them, they sell very little to Poland - it is 0.2% of US exports.

Exports to Israel are three times higher.
TheOther 6 | 3,674
3 Feb 2018 #264
acquiring nuclear weapons

You believe the Russian would allow that?

Good luck with telling that to the US business

"America first" is the name of the game, don't forget that. If Washington comes to the conclusion that the Polish position goes against their political interests in the Middle East, trade tariffs on Polish goods (the EU protects you at the moment, of course) or giving Poland the Cuba/ Venezuela treatment would quickly do the job to convince Polish politicians to change their mind. Poland is much more vulnerable than you think it is.
G (undercover)
3 Feb 2018 #265
Of course, I know that very well. Meanwhile US corporations make big bucks in Poland selling goods and services created outside of US. While geographically US is a huge trading partner for Poland with 2% share :))

Please kindly inform how are they going to "punish" us ? Oh I know, they will force Coca Cola to stop selling in Poland because sidelocks dudes wish so :))))
TheOther 6 | 3,674
3 Feb 2018 #266
While geographically US is a huge trading partner for Poland with 2% share

I thought you guys wanted out of the EU. You'll have to sell your soul to someone... :)
G (undercover)
3 Feb 2018 #267
or giving Poland the Cuba/ Venezuela treatment

So you want to tell us with straight face that US is going to put economic sanctions on Poland because some psycho liar screaming "they killed my mother" say so ?

"America first" is the name of the game

So ruining sales in Poland of Uncel Ben's, Snikers and tonnes of other stuff is "America first" ? Please kindly explain. Oh I know, they will get angry and won't allow us to spend 10 billion USD on Patriot missiles and another 3 billion on HIMARS :)))
TheOther 6 | 3,674
3 Feb 2018 #268
they will get angry

The current administration would follow through, I can guarantee you that much. Just watch what they do to all the international trade agreements at the moment. You are not dealing with rational people.

because some psycho liar

You are underestimating the influence of Israel's lobby in Washington.
gumishu 13 | 6,140
3 Feb 2018 #269
I thought you guys wanted out of the EU.

you really think too much TheOther
G (undercover)
3 Feb 2018 #270
You are underestimating the influence of Israel's lobby in Washington.

I'm very well aware of that. But still If they try to come up with anything, they will have to go against Lockhed Martin/Raytheon and LNG folks. Should be fun to watch. Besides, If they succeed in anything, which I doubt.

1. The impact will be limited, what you folks apparently don't understand... Cuba, Iran, Iraq etc. were either nationalizing property of US corporations, or invading other countries or running military nuclear projects or all at once. Now wich of these things PiS gov is planning to do ? You can't put sanctions on a country just like that, there are regulations on that kind of stuff.

2. If they do that, we will at least know they are **** not any ally, sometimes It's better to learn that in advance, not when the real **** hits the fan.


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