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Poland supporting potential new EU members - Georgia and Turkey


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
20 Oct 2017  #1
Read these stories earlier:

The Georgia one isn't as surprising as Poland and Georgia especially during Saakashvili's reign had pretty good ties. The Turkey one is a bit surprising. I think it's Poland trying to make new strategic partnerships. Smart, as Turkey is wealthy and far more liberal and European than other Muslim majority countries. It looks like actually Hungary too made some headway with Turkey. Perhaps Poland and Hungary are seeking additional partners and allies. They definitely don't have a good relationship with Germany, Brussels, and France at the moment. This is a smart move on their part. Hopefully trade and political support grow between Poland - Georgia and Poland - Turkey.

thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/331377,Poland-supports-Georgia%E2%80%99s-EU-bid-FM

Erdo─čan, who referred to Duda as "my friend," said he would like to hear an equally clear declaration on Turkey's EU accession from Brussels. According to the Polish translation, he said: "Simply stop deceiving us. If you want to accept us in the Union, just say that. If you don't want us, say that too."

What do you guys think?
Atch 17 | 2,701    
20 Oct 2017  #2
This is a smart move on their part.

Unless Poland is planning on exiting the EU then I don't see how it's a smart move. The European Council has just decided in the last day or so to cut Turkey's accession funding due to the fact that they don't satisfy accession conditions regarding democracy and rule of law.
Lyzko 20 | 6,181    
20 Oct 2017  #3
Seems a bit dodgy to me, this whole business:-) Why would Poland of all places be courting Georgia or Turkey?
Don't like the looks of it!
OP Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
20 Oct 2017  #4
@Lyzko

Poland has had relations with Georgia for a while. That I'm not too surprised about. Turkey though is rather strange. If I remember correctly the last admin was a bit against Turkey's EU ascension.

Its because Poland is gradually shying away from Brussels, France, and Germany (at least politically) and seeking new partners - the traditional V4, Hungary, China, and now Turkey and Georgia. Turkey has an enormous economy that is very competitive so it's a good move. It seems Poland isn't the only one to do this - Hungary's Obran met with Erdogan as well while other EU leaders haven't been meeting with him lately.

@Atch
That's probably why Poland and Hungary are joining up with Turkey and others. Poland wants to remain in the EU - most Poles are pro EU and we follow 99% of what the EU asks of Poland. However, the migrant issue was where we drew a line. That we won't follow. PiS has said there is nothing the EU can do that would be worse than forcing Poland to take migrants. Majority of Poles are against this and support the current admin's decision not to take in migrants from me and Africa - Ukraine is a different story (poles are split half and half on that). EU doesn't really know what to do with Poland because if they kick us out they've lost a bunch of funds they invested into the country and now can't get the same returns on investments they predicted.

Poles generally have no problems with Kurds and Turks. In fact, we find these groups as an example for other Muslims to follow. Turks are rather European and liberal, and rather wealthy too. It's not like Syria or Iraq or Saudi or something.
OP Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
20 Oct 2017  #5
The European Council has just decided in the last day or so to cut Turkey's

To my understanding they are CONSIDERING to cut SOME of the funds

reuters.com/article/us-eu-turkey/eu-will-cut-some-money-for-turkey-as-ties-sour-idUSKBN1CP1N5

The European Union will cut some of the money earmarked for Turkey to join the bloc, reflecting increasingly sour ties with Ankara but stopping short of killing membership bid of the country it still sees as a strategic partner.

I guess arresting people who plot coups and overthrows (wouldn't be surprised if this was another far left, soros type of funded campaign) is considered violating rule of law by the EU rofl... What a joke

Turkey's security is Europe's security: Hungarian envoy
Hungarian ambassador tells Anadolu Agency EU must support Turkey against terrorism 'without compromise'
aa.com.tr/en/europe/turkeys-security-is-europes-security-hungarian-envoy/943039

Glad to see. Maybe they'll finally help stop the flow of all these crazy radicals and freeloaders who aren't too keen on working as any welfare Germany, France, etc offers is far greater than any salary they'd make back home.
Tacitus 2 | 860    
20 Oct 2017  #6
I guess arresting people who plot coups and overthrows (wouldn't be surprised if this was another far left, soros type of funded campaign) is considered violating rule of law by the EU rofl... What a joke

It is once it becomes apparant that those arrests are solely made to weaken domestic opposition and are not upholding basic legal standards. Furthermore there are many foreigners arrested and denied due process because Erdogan wants to use them as hostages against other countries. Dozens of foreigners are currently arrested on ridiculous charges and Turkish officials prevent them from meeting with attorneys from their home countries, which is basic international law.

This is very clear in the case of the arrested German-Turkish journalist Mesale Tolu. Her arrest is in itself against Turkish law (because the judge who ordered her arrest and later denied her bail are one and the same person, something that is expressively forbidden under Turkish law).

I don't think that Turkey is a good partner for Poland, even without those circumstances, since Erdogan has become a close partner of Putin, which should made the Polish government suspicious.
G (undercover)    
20 Oct 2017  #7
Erdogan is shyt. It's about business and diplomacy. Just saying something nice without any consequences. Turkey has no chance to join EU anyway. So why not ? Once we can be "pro-Muslim" as it costs us nothing and can score some point with a fast growing economy.
OP Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
20 Oct 2017  #8
Erdogan is shyt

I like the guy. He's smart. Very Machiavellian. He's like a Turkish Putin. He knows how to play one side against another better than anyone else in that region.

It's about business and diplomacy

Of course. Poland I think is just looking for allies and spreading their net far and wide. Poles and Hungarians know that in the future they won't be able to count on any sort of help from Western EU - if anything they'll be more of a political hindrance. This is why they're looking for new alliances. US atleast while Trump is in office will be a reliable partner. And of course Hungary-Poland - that's almost like an unbreakable bond. The V4 helps too along with countries like Austria, Bulgaria, Baltics etc which aren't keen on forced migration. Even if Turkey doesn't end up in the EU, they can still become better partners with Poland. Poles generally don't have much of an issue with Turks. The Turks actually are regularly targeted by radical Muslims for being 'kuffars' and being too European and liberal.

Even if Turkey never joins EU, they are the gatekeepers preventing, or allowing, millions of migrants - which include terrorists, criminals, perverts, agents from hostile governments, thieves, etc from flowing into Europe. The EU leadership knows this damn well so there's only so much they can do before they really upset Erdogan, he sides with Russia, and screws over the EU. Or funds some radical group to start some new conflict fought through proxies.

arrests are solely made to weaken domestic opposition and are not upholding basic legal standards

Thousands of people tried to overthrow a democratically elected government. They're lucky they weren't shot. When you try to overthrow a government or support a coup you're going to get put in jail. It was 10k people that were rounded up and arrested, not millions so no its not like he suddenly shut down the press, shut down all the opposition parties and deemed them illegal, etc. Turkey is not a dictatorship. I've been to Turkey - only once and for a short period of time but it is a beautiful country and the people were generally very friendly. There's even gay pride parades in Turkey (even though the marchers tend to get beat up) but nonetheless that just shows that Turkey is far more liberal than any other Muslim majority country.

Erdogan wants to use them as hostages against other countries

It helps negotiating position. Israel, Palestine, Russia, Ukraine, United States, all do similar things. This is nothing new. If someone is valuable or has valuable info they will be captured, perhaps even tortured, so the state can get what it needs. Or they'll be locked up in a cell for a rainy day to be used as a bargaining chip.

Turkey can be a great economic partner and help us politically in certain situations. Erdogan won't forget that only the Poles and Hungarians met with him and other EU leaders didn't. Turkey does not have good relations with Putin - it's been rocky at best. Lets not forget Erdogan and his sons made billions off oil trafficked by ISIS, allowed Europeans to go to those lands no questions asked to fight for ISIS against the Kurds/Iraq/Syria. Also, if I remember correctly the Turks shot down a Russian jet. Turkey has been wisely playing the NATO and Russia against each other. Just take the example of how Turkey wisely drew NATO and Russian suppliers of air defense systems (patriot vs s400) against each other.

What do you guys think about Georgia though/??????
kaprys 1 | 1,613    
20 Oct 2017  #9
In what way could Turkey help us ? Assuming 'us' is Poland (is it? )
I doubt Poles 'generally have no problems with Kurds and Turks'. If they 'have a problem' (euphism) with Muslims, they don't care if they're Turkish or not.

Your awe of Putin and Erdogan is quite disturbing to be honest . O_o
Lyzko 20 | 6,181    
20 Oct 2017  #10
Their patience though will doubtless be tested to the max if Turkey's and Georgia's joining the EU will mean more of "them" at your borders:-)
G (undercover)    
20 Oct 2017  #11
I like the guy. He's smart. Very Machiavellian. He's like a Turkish Putin. He knows how to play one side against another better than anyone else in that region.

He's an efficient leader in some way... but anyway he's a sort of Islamist (although "mild") and doesn't lead Turkey in the right direction.

What do you guys think about Georgia though/??????

Due to their localization I doubt they will be allowed to join either NATO or EU.

I doubt Poles 'generally have no problems with Kurds and Turks'. If they 'have a problem' (euphism) with Muslims, they don't care if they're Turkish or not.

Huh ? Poles "have a problem" with savages / parasites / fanatics trying to bring the sharia law into Europe. In that crowd Turks are relatively civilized. They don't blow themselves up much. We're generally against PC madness of bringing millions of "people of colour" of the worst stock into Europe and allowing them to slowly turn it into Congo / Arabistan. Generally common sense approach, which western people lost in effect of several decades of PC brainwashing. Still, I surely would rather see a doctor from Iran here than an illiterate "Chrisitan" from Africa.

It seems some people believed that Poles are some Catholic fanatics / white supremacists. One doesn't have to be that to disagree with the multi cult madness of Euro "elites".
G (undercover)    
20 Oct 2017  #12
Their patience though will doubtless be tested to the max if Turkey's and Georgia's joining the EU will mean more of "them" at your borders:-)

Georgia is a Christian nation. One of the oldest in the world.
kaprys 1 | 1,613    
21 Oct 2017  #13
@G (undercover)
Yeah, after all there are kebab shops and holidays in Turkey.
Roger5 1 | 1,463    
21 Oct 2017  #14
Turkey is wealthy and far more liberal and European than other Muslim majority countries.

Having lived there for three years I can't agree. You can see girls in mini skirts having a beer on Taksim square in Istanbul, and then turn a corner to see women entirely covered, even with a net curtain covering their eyes. I remember being hollered at on a train for drinking beer by a fundamentalist. Other, more liberal passengers defended me. Turkey is a very mixed bag, and under Erdogan repression of opposition has been ruthless. And I mean long before the coup attempt.
Roger5 1 | 1,463    
21 Oct 2017  #15
Of course, Turkey is less extreme than, e.g. Saudi Arabia, but scratch the surface of even western-oriented families and you'll find a deep conservatism. When I was there women told me things that they would never discuss with male Turks. Things that gave the lie to their apparent liberty.
Ironside 47 | 9,503    
21 Oct 2017  #16
What do you guys think?

President in Poland doesn't decide polices of the state on his own, has rather secondary role of a 'fifth wheel'. Beside Turkey has no chance to be welcomed in the EU. Not at all.

At this stage I doubt they would even want it. So, that 'promise' by the president is just a sweet talk. To sweeten a economic and military deal.
Lyzko 20 | 6,181    
21 Oct 2017  #17
Georgia is Christian more in the sense of Orthodox Christianity as practiced in Greece as well as Russia:-) While not a Sunni Muslim nation like Turkey, Georgians are nonetheless not Western European Christians, and despite lying in what is technically Eastern, not even Central, Europe, Poland for instance is much more Western than Georgia! A point to consider.
OP Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
21 Oct 2017  #18
@Roger5

No you're right about that. Outside of like downtown Istanbul and the square its a different story. I got to at least see a bit of the country. We flew in to Istanbul, then took a lil prop plane to gaizentep and set up a bunch of sensors in some fields. In Istanbul I found the people to be very friendly and pretty western. However yes you're right there wasa big seperation of sexes. A foreign woman walking by herself would often be perceived as a hooker or at least an easy lay. However the men tend to be respectful of the womens wishes when she says she's not interested
OP Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
21 Oct 2017  #19
@kaprys

Awe and respect for a persons abilities and accomplishments are two different things. Theres a lot people can learn from figures like these. Ever hear of the saying know your enemy for example?

@G (undercover)
You ask most poles and there well aware of the situation in Syria. Even though Kurds and their larger parties tend to be a bit more leaning towards socialist ideals, poles still see them as far more compatible with liberal European society in general as opposed to many other sunni groups
kaprys 1 | 1,613    
22 Oct 2017  #20
@Dirk diggler
Learn what? How to be manipulative? Or should I look for stronger adjectives?
With such a mentality of admiration for strong figures in power, you're likely to fall under totalitarian rule. Lots of people have. Think of millions who followed Hitler or Stalin.

And no, sure I haven't heard the saying. Tell me about it ;)
Crow 143 | 7,411    
22 Oct 2017  #21
Poland for instance is much more Western than Georgia! A point to consider.

Pane Lyzko, difference between you and me is that you generally speak truth, while I incline to tell the truth to the extreme. Poland isn`t more Western. Poland is the core of the West. And why not tell it? You have some consideration for Poland`s western European partners? Is that it? Because of them you hesitate? Well, forget them. They don`t give a sh** for Poland. They never did. So kick them and kick every consideration of them. They aren`t West. They once were part of West. Part. But, they never were more Western then Poland. Now, with every new day they are more backward then Georgia.
Lyzko 20 | 6,181    
22 Oct 2017  #22
More backward??? I highly doubt that, sir.
Crow 143 | 7,411    
22 Oct 2017  #23
Yes, they moving backward. As my grandmother used to say, when God wishes to punish somebody He take his sanity.
Lyzko 20 | 6,181    
22 Oct 2017  #24
..and sends them off to Poland, no doubt, is that it??

Well, Poland is no longer the backwater of yore, my friend, and precisely for this reason, many Poles are doubtless justifiably concerned that importing too many asylum seekers from Georgia or Turkey will not necessarily raise the GNP once the former have become full-fledged members of the European Community.

That's the key point, I think.
OP Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
23 Oct 2017  #25
Well, Poland is no longer the backwater of yore, my friend,

That's still the opinion of much of W Europe though

That's the key point, I think.

Not really. This doesn't have much to do with migrants. Partially it's to do with maybe making Poland look more media friendly and dispel MSM's claims of Polish islamophobia and such. That's more of a secondary goal. Imo, I think this is an enlargement of the 3 Seas/V4/Intermarium plan - at least with Turkey. By having Turkey in the EU, with a comparable population and power level of Germany, it takes away from Germany's dominant position. Even the PO regime wanted Turkey to be in the EU before PiS. The 3 Seas has already 12 countries cooperating. Turkey's EU membership would add to that. Also, if Turkey say does join the EU in 5-10-20 years (assuming it doesn't fall apart or morph into something else by then), it will definetley help that 3 Seas group. Another reason why Poland is becoming friendly with Turkey is Russia - Poland and Turkey have long cooperated in back channels against Russia. Maybe that's also why Poland is looking for increasing co-op with Georgia.
Tacitus 2 | 860    
23 Oct 2017  #26
Not that Turkey nor Georgia have any realistic chance of becoming an EU member. Turkey is btw. so large that it would require a plebiscite in every EU member state to join, and considering the opposition among the population in many states, there is no way that all would vote in favour. And this is even disregarding the whole Cyprus problem.... .
Lyzko 20 | 6,181    
23 Oct 2017  #27
There you're right on the money about that!
Crow 143 | 7,411    
22 Jul 2018  #28
Official Poland support Turkey in EU? Is that a joke?
TheWizard - | 241    
22 Jul 2018  #29
Turkey has almost zero chance for reasons pointed out above. Anyone who looks at Turkey for 5 minutes can see that. Now under it's new leadership with the current dictator it's bloody less than zero. This is one of the simplistic spins they also used for brexit to further trick the uk population. Silly people believed it.
Lyzko 20 | 6,181    
22 Jul 2018  #30
Turkey especially is today a political force to be reckoned with!

Erdogan wants to reject Ataturk's vision of a modern nation and return to the time of sultans and caliphates.
This Turkey is clearly not ready for the EU, NOT the erstwhile democratic bridge presided over by enlightened, Western-
thinking politicians, for instance Tansu Cillar.


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