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Dodgy PRL-holdover judiciary finally reformed


mafketis 23 | 8,401
5 Feb 2020 #181
Post-communist means

a fairytale told to unhappy people who were unable to thrive after the PRL and desperately want a scapegoat or class of scapegoats? yes, that's it.

it didn't improve things at all

And alienating key allies and increased trial time (over 20%!) and subverting legal authority to the party in power does improve things?

When PiS does lose will you support another political party doing the same things?
Lenka 3 | 1,966
5 Feb 2020 #182
I'm quite surprised that so many of you think it's ok to put judges under political rule. Forget our political scene at the moment and think long term- you really can't see a danger in a political body being able to influence courts? Seriously?

And how can there be a good change starting with some questions about legality of KRS ( a judge is suspended because he wanted to look into support list legally required in the process? Seriously?)
Ziemowit 13 | 4,075
5 Feb 2020 #183
those young ones who have inharited their positions only thanks to their parents being a prominent apparatchiks in PRL times

hose who have died or retired were replaced by a younger ones from the same political swamp

You're repeating like a parrot the mantra of PiS propaganda here. As all propaganda, the message is grossly oversimplified.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #184
a fairytale told to unhappy people who were unable to thrive

I thrive very well, thank you.

But yes, during PRL era many valuable and virtuous people were pushed down to make place for human thrash who were dispositional to a communist party. I understand that those who received unawarded priviledges want to keep them and will fight for it.

Who I find amusing, though, are those naive people who want to defend a pathological system that kickes them in the ass on a daily basis because they think that they're fighting for a "free judiciary" in Poland. There's no cure for fools.

As far as I know, PiS considers nationalists and Konfederacja as rivals on the right side of the political scene

A well-being of Poland is above all political symphaties. And Poland is still being eaten by post-commie parasites. When a patient has tapeworms a doctor doesn't discuss a therapy with the parasite but removes it. And that's how I see all those "judges" who started their carreer in PRL and thrived through martial law of 1981...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,075
5 Feb 2020 #185
is suspended because he wanted to look into support list legally required in the process

Yes, that is absolutely scandalous. How is PiS propaganda explaining this according to Spike?
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #186
It doesn't have to be explained to anyone but half-wits, cause those who have an interest in current state of affairs in Polish judiciary system knows it very well. They defend it not because it functions well without any changes but because it benefits them personally. Fortunately, they cannot gather enough useful idiots to block the changes.

A najprosciej to mozna wyjasnic slowami medrka Safronowa z Alternatywy 4: madremu wystarcza dwa slowa a glupiemu i referatu za malo... ;-)
Lenka 3 | 1,966
5 Feb 2020 #187
It doesn't have to be explained to anyone but half-wits,

So why the support list is not released? It's a legal requirement and suspending a judge for trying to see if it's ok is weird at best...
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #188
@Lenka, I'm not saying that PiS methods are clean. They are playing with a great cheat: a postcommie judges, and they are using their own methods to defeat them.
Ironside 49 | 10,311
5 Feb 2020 #189
I'm quite surprised that so many of you think it's ok to put judges under political rule. F

Well, that is the way it works in most of the countries. At the very least there is some kind of a control. In Poland there is narrow group of cronies who vote on each other. That is a number one reasons for a rotten corrupted system. With people above the law that can do no wrong. How anybody decent can defend it? Are you all morons with no sense and IQ?

Shouldn't that rot be cleansed?

I'm not saying that PiS methods are clean.

There is no method to PiS act. They are bumbling the issue away on individual changes and short term gains.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #190
There is no method to PiS act.

The truth be told there is. They were very methodical at it with one major break after 2017 Duda's veto.
Lenka 3 | 1,966
5 Feb 2020 #191
I'm not saying that PiS methods are clean.

And that says it all. How can you create clean enviroment when you start by shitti*g in the middle of the room?
If there is something wrong with those lists all the KRS decisions are under question not to mention that our head of state, defender of the constitution broke the law. And we are supposed to leave it to such people to create standards? No thanks.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #192
How can you create clean enviroment when you start by shitti*g in the middle of the room?

PiS is now using same methods initited in the past by the current judges. They are not breaking the law but interpretting it differently. A 1997 Kwasniewski's constitution itself is unclear on those matters and was written in such manner that can be interpreted in different ways.

A new constitution should be the next step because this one's got too many shortcomings.
Lenka 3 | 1,966
5 Feb 2020 #193
They are not breaking the law but interpretting it differently.

Actuallly they are if those lists are not complete.

And A. Duda wanted to change the constitution but they realised they don't have thw support
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #194
@Lenka, then you should vote for Konfederacja. They have politicians, like G.Braun, J. Korwin-Mikke, who are legalists and believe that the law should be obeyed to the letter. But they don't give a high note to a current Polish law nor constitution and they want to change it.

Political support, or lack of thereof, is not constant. I believe in certain circumstances constitutional majority can be achieved in the next parliament. Obviously not only by PiS, they'll have to make political consensus with other growing factions like Konfederacja.
Lenka 3 | 1,966
5 Feb 2020 #195
J. Korwin-Mikke

Please don't make me laugh. That guy gives me creeps and I would end up in psychiatric hospital knowing my vote went to someone like that

And it wasn't about parliamentary majority but general support
Ziemowit 13 | 4,075
5 Feb 2020 #196
why so many of you think it's ok to put judges under political rule

Well, that is the way it works in most of the countries.

No, it's not the way it works in democratic countries. In democratic countries judges work under the control of law and not under the control of politicians.

It works that way in Russia, Belorus and China. If those are "most of the countries" for you, then you are perfectly right. But if you mean Europe, you are only making a fool of yourself.

you should vote for Konfederacja. They have politicians, like G.Braun, J. Korwin-Mikke

And you stop making an idiot of yourself. Korwin-Mikke is the biggest political clown in Poland whom even the Konfederacja did not choose as a candidate for Presidency.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #197
And it wasn't about parliamentary majority but general support

Well, in democracy a general support is transferred into votes and those votes into a parliamentary majority. Unless you don't believe in democracy like J.Korwin-Mikke...:-P
Lenka 3 | 1,966
5 Feb 2020 #198
He planned on referendum, remember? He even gave a rough idea on the questions - after it became clear he won't win it the idea was dropped.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 Feb 2020 #199
He planned on referendum, remember?

Yes, however, the referendum is not a legal requirement needed to proceed with a new constitution. It was an act of good will. And the questions were stupid indeed
mafketis 23 | 8,401
6 Feb 2020 #200
Poland is still being eaten by post-commie parasites.

If that's true you should be able to give recent examples....
pawian 170 | 11,348
6 Feb 2020 #201
Ha, ha, you're like a good czekhist, Pawian - always on the lookout for the enemies of communism. :)

The trend has reversed. Today I am looking for the enemies of democratic Poland. Neobolsheviks are trying to destroy it. ::):)

And also those young ones who have inharited their positions only thanks to their parents being a prominent apparatchiks in PRL times.

Actually, the parents of Juszczyszyn, the judge suspended by PiS` illegal Disciplinary Chamber, were teachers. And most judges of young generation are like that. In short, you are spreading lies. Why?

To effectively treat this cancer you need to cut off a degenerate tissue.

What are you going to do with Piotrowicz and Pawłowicz, lawyers who once eagerly worked for communists but recently were nominated to high positions in PiS- controlled judicial institutions?

Braun, Korwin-Mikke, are legalists believe the law should be obeyed to the letter. But they don't give high note to current Polish law nor constitution

Yes, typical of nationalists. They promise to obey the law on condition it has been made by them and only them. Pathetic.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
6 Feb 2020 #202
Yes, typical of nationalists.

Korwin-Mikke is hardly a nationalist. G.Braun more so.

BTW. A definition of a nationalist: someone who strongly identifies with his/her own nation and supports its interests
pawian 170 | 11,348
6 Feb 2020 #203
by degrading other nations, you forgot to say. The definition you provided refers to regular non-nationalist patriots. Like me. :))

As for Mikke, yes, he isn`t one. I threw him in the same basket with Braun by accident.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
6 Feb 2020 #204
by degrading other nations, you forgot to say

No, I didnt forget. That's called chauvinism not nationalism. I forgive you your ignorance since you're a victim of a PRL education
Lenka 3 | 1,966
6 Feb 2020 #205
So Spike- what is the difference between a patriot and a nationalist?
pawian 170 | 11,348
6 Feb 2020 #206
I forgive you your ignorance since you're a victim of a PRL education

But you are also a victim of it coz when you attended schools, you were taught by ex-communist teachers who had worked long before the fall of the system. Besides, they fostered the next generation of post-communist teachers who might have also taught you after 2000. ( I am using your own way of thinking about old and new judges in Poland now).

You are communist to the bone, my dear. hahaha No wonder you hold such neobolshevik views. hahaha
Spike31 3 | 1,637
6 Feb 2020 #207
you were taught by ex-communist teachers who had worked long before the fall of the system

And that's why a self-education is so important.

So Spike- what is the difference between a patriot and a nationalist?

Patriot is a person who loves his fatherland [patris]. Nationalist is a person who loves his nation. In Polan, being such a homogenous nation, we can use those definitions interchangeably.
pawian 170 | 11,348
6 Feb 2020 #208
And that's why a self-education is so important.

It is too late for you. You have already been corrupted by communists. Probably your kids will fare better but you need to clean your local schools of all post communists first. :):)

Nationalist is a person who loves his nation.

And is ready to suffer and die for it! Like Konrad in Dziady. hahaha
Spike31 3 | 1,637
7 Feb 2020 #209
You have already been corrupted by communists.

Quite on a contrary.

This discussion leads nowhere and is not on subject of this thread. Take it to random chat if you wish to continue with it but don't count on me to join you.
pawian 170 | 11,348
7 Feb 2020 #210
This discussion leads nowhere and is not on subject of this thread.

OK, let`s get back to topic. The topic is PRL judiciary finally reformed. Do you agree that PiS has flunked the job and didn`t reform anything? On the contrary, the situation is worse than before.

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