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Prevention of child abduction by Polish mother.


mart
30 Mar 2012 #61
Hunny

Don't get mad, (it's too late now) it's really bad for practicing your fatherly skills.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #62
Mart

I assume you are too stupid to live and yet too stupid to do the right thing!
pgtx 30 | 3,156
30 Mar 2012 #63
Stop that name calling everybody.
f stop 25 | 2,513
30 Mar 2012 #64
so many people forget what parenthood really means: putting your own 'wants' in the second place, behind the child's.
Routinely, women forget that the child is not their property, men forget how important their presence is in the child's life.
Once you have a child, it doesn't matter what you want, everything becomes about the child: where you live, what jobs you can have, what you eat, what time you wake up and go to sleep, what you watch on the TV, what music you listen to, who you let into your house, who you have to be nice to, what plans you make for a weekend... all your plans are not your own any more. Forget what you want.

If you do right by your child, you will have no regrets. Remember, for the rest of your life, you will not have peace if your child does not have it.

There is no set formula, if you picked a lunatic for your mate, it's not the child's fault. Make sure that the child knows it has two parents that love him/her, because sooner or later the child will realize he/she is a genetic combination of two parents, and the questions will start. Nobody can tell you what to do, just make sure your conscience is clean, and your sacrifice apparent.

Edit: Apparent is a wrong word. I can't think of another one. Hope you all know what I mean.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #65
f stop

That was perfectly put, exactly the way it should be, the child is the most important one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No games, no politics, but what is best for the child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you so much for saying that!!!!
f stop 25 | 2,513
30 Mar 2012 #66
Thank you. But you have to remember, telling this to your mate is a waste of time. You can only change yourself. When you read it, skip the parts that apply to her, and concentrate on the ones that may apply to you.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #67
f stop

I agree and I try to think about what is best for my child and ask my friends including one who works in child care what is best and am I doing the right thing all the time. I guess I'm scared of doing the wrong thing more than anything else, or something that might not be the best thing for my child, or not doing enough. I'm trying to walk the right path in what feels like very difficult circumstances, doing the best for my child in the short and long term; and also deal with a complex, confusing and painful situation with the mum.
f stop 25 | 2,513
30 Mar 2012 #68
Sometimes, there is not much you can do, but stay calm and non-judgmental. You might consider swallowing your pride and start kissing her ass. At the very least she should know that if she ever needs it, you will be willing to help, no strings attached.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #69
f stop

I try to stay calm and non-judgmental, despite having lost my calm with a few posters here tonight much to my personal chagrin. Most of the time I turn the other cheek remembering how much I love my child and how much I loved this woman. Unfortunately I have tried what you suggested without success so I think it may take time, but in the meantime I have to ensure that my child is looked after in every way that I possible can look after them.

I hope that makes sense as it's 4am here and I'm not sure if I make sense anymore.
f stop 25 | 2,513
30 Mar 2012 #70
the worst scenario is that you might loose contact with your child for a while. Find somebody that can be a conduit between you two, even if it's just to pass a Christmas or birthday present, whatever it takes. Send money if she'll take it. Keep a journal with your child's name on it, keep record of all your efforts. Write in it, if you can't talk/write to him/her directly. Life has many twists and turns, and if you don't give up and are not a threat to your ex, she might turn to you if she's in need. If she does not, a time will probably come when the child will come looking for you.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #71
Hi fstop

Unfortunately it has gone down to the legal route as my ex was threatening to take my child out of the country and never let me see them. So I will hopefully get visitation and be able to pay for my child which is what I want to do. It was just a shame that all communication broke down, and I couldn't not let my child know that I fought for them to have their dad in their life. I already turn up every weekend to see my child either to have the door closed in my face or to just be ignored. My ex sees anything that prevents her doing exactly what she wants as a threat to her, so my visits are just that. I have to put things in place now legally as my solicitor (lawyer) said if I do it when the child is older it could appear that I don't care in the eyes of the courts. I just hope in time things can calm down, but for now I have to make sure I try to do the right thing.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
30 Mar 2012 #72
I wish you luck Anglik, she should be happy that you WANT to be a real dad (unlike some)
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #73
Hi Rozumiemnic

Thank you, I just hope I do the best I can and don't fail my child.
polishmama 3 | 279
30 Mar 2012 #74
Anglik1, I wasn't trying to insult you. I'm trying to explain from the point of view of a woman. It's going to be fundamentally different than the point of view of a man. Obviously. Different situations, different physically and psychologically and socially, etc. Some of the fundamental differences keep us divided and probably always will. But then, if we were the same, we would all be the same gender with the same upbringings, same social norms and limitations, same procreation experiences, etc. and that would not succeed, would it?

ZIMMY, I'm not going to discuss with you all of the different random and uncommon examples you listed. They are unrelated to the thread, imo. When I was discussing scenarios about child custody, I made it clear that I was discussing the laws around me. Unless you are a lawyer in my area, you won't be an expert on the matter and teaching me something. That's impossible.

We are discussing an EU law situation here. Anglik1, I looked into it and it does appear that the two of you will be required to take parenting classes after all, per the courts. I think it's a great idea, irregardless of who the parents are or how they feel about each other. Perhaps, there might be an option to take some sort of counseling together to work out your relationship together, which is now permanent assuming your legal establishment as the father to the child. In that counseling, you two could work out any issues together regarding communication for the betterment of the child. I wish all couples would consider doing so (again, assuming no abuse issues, in which case, I don't think the victim should be subjugated to further contact with the abuser, which I am not assuming happened here).

Can you please explain to us how she is after money if she wants nothing to do with you and doesn't want to acknowledge you as the father? That part, sincerely, has me stumped.

OT, the fathers staying home bit, well that's not a common trend. It happens, sure, but it isn't common place. My husband would love to stay home with the kids while I work. He'd also be glady collecting SSI for a non-debilitating and fixable mental issue, food stamps, and everything else if I would have said "poor baby" to him about something that countless other individuals, some of whom I'm friends with, go to counseling and take medication for, something they themselves consider minor and easily managable. All while I would cook, clean, work, take care of the kids, while he would watch Maury and Springer during the day (we've even tried it for a bit, my then 3 year old snitched on him in tears), etc. So, for me, it's a bit personal as well. Forgive me for allowing my own emotions and experience (as others have in this thread) to cloud my typically objective contributions to the conversation. I don't wish to discuss my personal situation further. Let's get back on topic.

There is a child. The parents don't get along. There are some sort of issues which we are not aware of and can only speculate on, partly because the ex is not here, partly because it's one of the most emotional situations humans can be in. OP, what has your lawyer told you thusfar to do?
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #75
Polishmamma

After your previous post I have nothing further to discuss with you!
ReservoirDog - | 132
30 Mar 2012 #76
In that case I will ask this question :)

Can you please explain to us how she is after money if she wants nothing to do with you and doesn't want to acknowledge you as the father?

OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #77
Reservoir

When you ask to see your child and her response is 'what's it worth in terms of money?' I think that gives you an idea. Sorry I can't be any more specific.

I should also add that was her very first response, nothing about the child whatsoever when I asked how the child was.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
30 Mar 2012 #78
When you ask to see your child and her response is 'what's it worth in terms of money?' I think that gives you an idea. Sorry I can't be any more specific.

alot of people simply do not understand that access/ shared care and child support are different issues.
you do know that social services is not only about how clean or well fed a child is right?
As the child get older, and can understand the mother, that would certainly be defined as 'emotional abuse'.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
30 Mar 2012 #79
Hi Rozumiemnic

I understand what you mean now about involving social services, but whilst there is a court case in progress to allow me to get visitation and parental rights I am sure social services will not be willing to get involved. I'm prepared to pay for my child, but I still don't think she'll give me access. It is unfortunately all about what my ex wants.

Hopefully things will get better!
f stop 25 | 2,513
31 Mar 2012 #80
When you ask to see your child and her response is 'what's it worth in terms of money?'

That's fvcked up, but also, that was your door! What did you say?
Gustav 1 | 50
31 Mar 2012 #81
I should say that I am not married to the mother, nor at present on the birth certificate

If only sex/family planning education contained some simple advice , such situations could be easily avoided.

Namely:

-> Before having unprotected sex, at least consider the possibility of this resulting in a child. Think carefully and discuss with your partner if you are happy with the idea you may have a child together and the responsibilities that go with that

-> Ensure you have a long term stable relationship with appropriate family network. Children are hard work and expensive. Fixing 'mistakes' or custody cases in court is expensive and emotionally difficult.

In neo-liberal 'anything-goes' Britain,values of the 1940's and 1950's seem to have been forgotten. The cost to society of the absence of any morals is significant- research concerning the impaired life outcomes for children of single parents is particularly saddening.

The RC church is very easily attacked, but some of their ethical standpoints concerning marriage are surprisingly valid. You don't have to be a religious zealot to have some basic common sense...

As for advice OP. in your mess, hire the best lawyers you can afford and hope for the best.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
31 Mar 2012 #82
Hi f stop

My first reply after being shocked by that question was an honest 'I don't know', that just ended the conversation with my ex getting angry.

Since then conversations about money to support our child have just deteriorated into her getting angry again. So I have just kept the money in the bank and have asked repeatedly how she would like the money paid. I have to say that I have been told after these initial conversations not to simply give her cash at the door as she can deny that I have made any attempt to pay for my child. It all seems very pathetic to me but I have been told been told that things have to be very black and white on paper to ensure that I can be seen as taking my obligations to my child seriously.

Hi Gustav

I agree with all of the points that you have made.

I should point out that this was a planned pregnancy and that marriage was very seriously discussed and going to happen, and we wanted to be together. The pregnancy happened unfortunately before we got married, but I didn't see that as a problem until my ex decided that she no longer needed or wanted me and would prefer to be a single mother. That decision after having talked about marriage and wanting to be together was a total shock. To my own personal morality if you have a child with someone you stand by them, I don't agree with the morality of the sixities and seventies that eroded the family. Unfortunately in my case things came along in the wrong order, but I still wanted to be with my child, my now ex in a loving and happy family, and give my ex the security of marriage.
f stop 25 | 2,513
31 Mar 2012 #83
you have to stop dreaming, Anglik, and get realistic here. She does not want you, does not need you, and if your presence is more of a pain than anything else, you're not going to 'win'.

I don't want to comment on the legal side of things, because I don't know anything about it, just remember a lawyer will always tell you to go the legal way because that's his job.

Send her a check, put the baby's name in the "for" section and see if she cashes it. But no demands with it, no expectations attached.

If she cashes it, start sending them regularly. That is a good start.

make the check substantial, so there is a better chance of her cashing it. Child support of about 1/4 of your take home pay is not unusual.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
2 Apr 2012 #84
you have to stop dreaming, Anglik, and get realistic here

f stop

Where did that come from, and don't worry you haven't offended me? I am not dreaming and this is not about me and my ex, but about our child. My solicitor (lawyer) is one of those that specialise in mediation between parties, so they would recommend a non- legal path if they thought it was best as they get paid either way. However, in this case steps have to be taken and the child protected from being stopped from seeing their father. As for the cheque idea that is a good one, but there is too much of a chance to say that the cheque got lost in the post etc as I had considered this idea previosly. Unfortunately this is a situation where everything has to be done absolutely correctly to safeguard the child's welfare and best interests.
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Apr 2012 #85
but there is too much of a chance to say that the cheque got lost in the post etc

You are so full of sht. Put your money where your mouth is an start supporting your child instead of trying to figure out how to control her, and maybe things will turn around for you. Once you are paying support, you might have a better chance of seing your child, not other way around.

Good luck.
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
2 Apr 2012 #86
f stop

Why have you suddenly turned into an aggressive idiot. My money is ready and waiting to be paid across, and I have no desire to control my ex, but just want to make sure that she doesn't deny she received the money, as that could never happen could it!

As rozumiemnic said earlier

alot of people simply do not understand that access/ shared care and child support are different issues.

So I just give in to blackmail! We all know that once we do that it just continues!

f stop you just keep get the wrong end of the stick!
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Apr 2012 #87
I gave you my advice, start supporting your child in good faith instead of making it a pissing contest about what you want and what a great parent you'd be. "Checks getting lost in the mail", and "money's is ready" my ass.

So I just give in to blackmail! We all know that once we do that it just continues!

you're the one blackmailing. Kid's got to eat, whether you like to play hands-on daddy or not.
Child support is not dependant on whether you see your child or not, don't you get it?
OP Anglik1 2 | 56
2 Apr 2012 #88
f stop

You have gone from being a reasonable person to one who is just being abusive and stupid!

Things have to be done properly and I have to maintain records of supporting this child otherwise she can claim that I haven't supported them at all. That is the bottom line!

Correct child support is not dependent on seeing the child at all, but when she asks for the money in cash. Then if she should choose to claim that I have not paid her anything then the child believes I never cared or supported them! This has happened in so many cases! The only way things can be done is through bank to bank transfers. Any solicitor will tell you that you are opening yourself up to trouble by simply giving cheques that the mother denied she received.

So why does my ex refuses the bank to bank transfers that is the question you should be asking!!!
ReservoirDog - | 132
2 Apr 2012 #89
So why does my ex refuses the bank to bank transfers that is the question you should be asking!!!

She doesn't want you to be a father. She doesn't trust you.
polishmama 3 | 279
2 Apr 2012 #90
simply giving cheques that the mother denied she received.

What sort of cheques are like that? Money orders? If I write a check and someone cashes it, my bank has record of who, when and where. I think that's like that with all banks. Is it different in UK? Curious.


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