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Single mothers in Poland


johnny reb 50 | 7,144
23 Jul 2015 #31
Most divorces aren't over such extremes as the examples given here, not to say some are.
The number one cause of divorce is selfishness.
You put yourself in that prison and shouldn't hit the delete button because it is the easiest way out.
That is what those Commitment Ceremony Marriage Vows are all about.
Til Death Do Us Part not.....well I am bored, well he yells at me, she won't listen, I deserve better,
this commitment is a prison..... today's progressive liberal society encourages to break those vows you made, take the easy way out and hit the delete button for a do over.

Selfish !
People usually catch on by their forth marriage as the fingers start pointing at the real problem.
Polonius3 986 | 12,343
23 Jul 2015 #32
Til Death Do Us Part

You're quite right about the selfishness and egoism. A good article on marriage appeared recently in the Detroit Free Press. Its author Mitch Albom wrote:

"We've taken it from an institution designed to create economic stability to one in which 'I want half' is a common phrase. We've morphed it from fostering children in stable, loving homes to a nation's worth of bitter custody battles and kids who celebrate four Christmases in a single day. We've moved it out of the church into Las Vegas and out of family photos of reality TV."

Please keep to the topic about a single Polish mothers.
Polsyr 6 | 758
23 Jul 2015 #33
Analyze this:

I was visiting some people in a medium sized town not far from Warsaw.

Right outside their home, there was a house decorated with a life-sized poster of the new president elect.
Out of that house came a pregnant teenage girl, maybe 16-17 years old, and around 7-8 months. She was holding a burning cigarette in one hand, and an open beer bottle in the other hand. She wore very high heels (she could barely walk) and a very short dress (it did not cover her bottom). Her skin was not just tanned but actually burned from sun exposure, and she was wearing a stupid amount of badly applied makeup. She had no wedding band, and every second word that came out of her mouth was "kurxx". But she did have a HUGE golden cross hanging from her neck.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
23 Jul 2015 #34
"lol"! I have seen quite a few girls of the kind, even if not pregnant; in Poland and in US' Bible Belt and yes, they all wear a big cross around their neck ;).
johnny reb 50 | 7,144
23 Jul 2015 #35
in Poland and in US' Bible Belt and yes, they all wear a big cross around their neck ;).

Very true InPolska, and not just the Bible Belt.

Analyze this:

Nothing to analize.
You can find the same in any country of the world.
Pretty selfish wouldn't you say ?
Me, I, me, what baby ?
By the time that rag is 25 she will be a "has been" and be
wondering how she became invisible to any descent man.
I have a neighbor that takes all the families money and puts it into his stock race car by
the thousands $$$$ so he can race on saturday night. New tires, entrance fees, gas, beer, ect.
while his wife and kids are going without living in squaller and being ignored.
Pretty selfish wouldn't you say ?
It's not just Poland that has uneducated low life losers.
So what do you expect when a wife/single mom like that gets major attitude ?
First thing out off his dumb azz mouth is, "what a b!tch she is".
Gee, I wonder WHO created that b!tch.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
23 Jul 2015 #36
@Johnny: Yes, in every country of the world you can find girls of the kind but in most countries of the world such girls are not religious.
Polsyr 6 | 758
23 Jul 2015 #37
You can find the same in any country of the world.

You are right Johnny. Everyone from every country has seen this teenage single mom.

In light of the perceived inability of this young mom to take care of a child, you and I both assume or know that this kid will end up unhealthy, both physically and mentally. He/she will probably drop out of school at a young age and turn to drugs and crime. Does it sound logical?

What do you think about:
1. Either provide adequate sex education so the pregnancy is less likely to happen in the first place,
2. Or allow this girl to have an abortion instead of allowing her to poison her unborn child with nicotine and alcohol before it is even born?
johnny reb 50 | 7,144
23 Jul 2015 #38
Yes, in every country of the world you can find girls of the kind but in most countries of the world such girls are not religious.

Do you see the connection ? (That kind of such girls are not religious) Hmmmm, can you imagine that !

What do you think about:

Any parent that would let their daughter go out dressed like a tramp (putting the bait out there), let them smoke cigarettes, get tatto's, put zippers in their lips, run the streets at will, and basically

let their daughters be totally out of control are the ones that should be held responsible.
The poor kid has no one to teach them or guide them. (Parents duty)
What do you expect from a kid with no parents.
Maybe taking them to church with you may be a start for teaching them some ethics, morals and guidance and meeting peers with the same.

At least give them a chance in life.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
23 Jul 2015 #39
@Johnny Reb: what I have understood from Polsyr's message is that this girl although catholic practising is not having a lifestyle as per the RCC's teachings. What I meant is that all the similar girls that I have met were not religious and therefore not in contradiction with RCC.

The girl is the total opposite of what RCC demand their followers to be.

What future for this girl and her kid? None!
Englishman 2 | 277
25 Jul 2015 #40
What do you think about:
1. Either provide adequate sex education so the pregnancy is less likely to happen in the first place,
2. Or allow this girl to have an abortion instead of allowing her to poison her unborn child with nicotine and alcohol before it is even born?

I agree with both ideas. But I also think that the selfish men who get girls like this pregnant should also be made to take responsibility. They too are foolish. Do other things that please a girl sexually but don't involve ejaculation, or wear a condom, unless you want a child to come into the world that is yours, so your responsibility.
Polsyr 6 | 758
25 Jul 2015 #41
But I also think that the selfish men who get girls like this pregnant should also be made to take responsibility

Fair enough, but how do you do that in a male dominated society that throws blame and responsibility exclusively on women? She sleeps around = s|ut, he sleeps around = stud. You know what I mean?
Wulkan - | 3,172
25 Jul 2015 #42
She sleeps around = s|ut, he sleeps around = stud. You know what I mean?

It's easy to be a slut, it's hard to be a stud
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #43
@Wulkan: "lol"! :)

Unfortunately in most parts of Poland, it's still the way it was in Western Europe till in the 1940/1950's. A pregnant girl has to get married and if not, she's seen as a "slut".

It is of course terrible and not much more advanced than the way it is in Iran and the like....

Are single mothers very common in Poland?
Vox - | 172
26 Jul 2015 #44
Do you mean laws on status of women?

Article 73. Pregnancy of an unmarried woman shall not by itself be the cause of punishment unless relevant evidence, as defined in this code, proves that she has committed the act of adultery.

@InPolska

Article 88. The punishment for an unmarried adulterer or adulteress shall be one hundred lashes

Are you comparing Poland and Iran or you are being hysterical? A typical state of mind for some people taken by the feminist ideology.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #45
@Vox: without going to the extreme, single mothers and illegitemate kids are discriminated against in Poland. Whatever we need to do in Poland, for instance, we always need to indicate both parents' names. In case a child is illegetimate and does not know his father's name, he's stigmatized and this is wrong. I am shoked. Where I come from, parents' ids are only needed in court or when requesting a birth cerificate (on my ID card and passport NO indication of my parents).

Single mothers in Poland are often considered no other than sluts. I've got some in my family so I know.

In a conservative ultra catholic society like Poland, it is NORMAL that people who have sinned are stigmatized.

Not my idea of a fair and democratic society (everybody should be treated in an equal manner).
Vox - | 172
26 Jul 2015 #46
@InPolska:
"Whatever we need to do in Poland, for instance, we always need to indicate both parents' names. In case a child is illegetimate and does not know his father's name, he's stigmatized and this is wrong. I am shoked."

Here what I have found regarding Poland's law.

If the case relates to a child born outside of wedlock and no recognition (acknowledgment) of paternity of the child takes place, in the course of preparation of the birth certificate the mother's surname at the time of the child's birth is entered as the child's surname, as the father's surname and as the child's family name, and the name of the father is entered as the name stated by the mother of the child. If the biological father of the child recognizes (acknowledges) paternity, the child bears the name indicated by both parents in a statement made jointly. This may be the surname of the father or the mother, or a surname consisting of the surnames of both parents

"single mothers and illegitemate kids are discriminated against in Poland"

Could you point out what law discriminate against them?
"Single mothers in Poland are often considered no other than sluts"
People who enjoy to overuse alcohol are often considered no other than "alcoholics".
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #47
@Vox: you cannot deny that for whatever you do in Poland, we always need to indicate our parents' names (where I am from, never) and it sure is stigmatization of people with unknown fathers.

It does not bother me personally but such people are yes stigmatized. As said, in a democratic society, all citizens are treated equally.

And yes, single mothers are stigmatized in Poland as society considers them no better than sluts...

You can copy-paste whatever you want, it won't change reality.

People should not be stigmatized because "different" from the majority.
jon357 75 | 22,570
26 Jul 2015 #48
Here what I have found regarding Poland's law.

Yes. This stigmatises single mothers and their children.

for whatever you do in Poland, we always need to indicate our parents' names (where I am from, never) and it sure is stigmatization of people with unknown fathers.

Precisely. In the country I came from, parents' names are never ever asked and a mother can give her child whatever surname she likes - in fact the child's surname is not recorded on the birth certificate.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #49
@Jon; Yes, it is stigmatization of people being "different". This reminds me of Spanish and Portuguese manner of naming kids with both father's and mother's names and therefore the kid who only has 1 name is a ... "bastard".

@Vox: your copy-paste thing does not answer my question. ;)

____________________________________

Of course, this has something to do with catholic religion in order to stigmatize and discriminate "bad people".

In some countries, people have to indicate their religion (for instance, in Greece) and in case of a state religion, how are those with a different or with no religion considered?

In a democratic society, people are not stigmatized because they are "different".
Vox - | 172
26 Jul 2015 #50
"Not my idea of a fair and democratic society (everybody should be treated in an equal manner)."
You are talking about utopian society.
Every society look down upon certain acts and behavioral traits, usually on those which are detrimental or not very helpful for a society at large. It changes from society to society from civilization to civilization.

In a truly liberal society one can exercise his freedom by acting freely within certain boundaries without being punished by the law. If however his or in this case her actions landed her in a position which is stigmatized by a society she should grow thick hide or should have thought about consequences before acting.

Even in "liberal" society there are certain norms one need to conform to. For example glorification and privileges for single mothers, minorities and homosexuals cannot be questioned even though they have an ugly hidden side, namely marginalization of the majority and discrimination against white heterosexual males, not very fair in my view.

Utopian projects usual turn ugly and totalitarian.
jon357 75 | 22,570
26 Jul 2015 #51
Of course, this has something to do with catholic religion in order to stigmatize and discriminate "bad people".

In some countries, people have to indicate their religion (for instance, in Greece) and in case of a state religion, how are those with a different or with no religion considered?

In a democratic society, people are not stigmatized because they are "different".

Spot on - it's a form of social manipulation and yes, a deliberate attempt to enforce conformity to a religious norm by stigmatising those outside it.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #52
@Vox: No need for utopia because fortunately democratic societies do exist. People don't need to be stigmatized because they are of a different color, different religion or atheists, different opinion, because they are not heterosexuals, because they were born out of wedlock etc etc ...

Sorry, but whenever I need to give my ID in Poland, why are my parents' names always requested?

@Jon: yes! 1. stigmatization and 2. discrimination. Starting to make differences among citizens based upon criteria they have not chosen and cannot change is always a bad idea.

When father's id is systematically demanded, it is a sure way to stigmatize the "bastards" and their "slutty" mothers ;). What a coincidence, it's the normal practice in all religious countries ;).
Vox - | 172
26 Jul 2015 #53
@Vox: you cannot deny that for whatever you do in Poland, we always need to indicate our parents' names (where I am from, never) and it sure is stigmatization of people with unknown fathers.

That beside the point. You are making it sound as if those requirements have been tailored to stigmatize single mothers and are not leftovers of the totalitarian overbearing bureaucracy.

As said, in a democratic society, all citizens are treated equally.

Boo ho, no they are not.

single mothers are stigmatized in Poland as society considers them no better than sluts...

Some people consider them no better than sluts, do you propose to jail those people?
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #54
@Vox; it is so in a lot (if not all) religious countries and yes, it is to stigmatize "bad women and their kids". In Spain and Portugal, it's even worse since just by the name, a "bastard" is recognized right away ;).

And yes, unwed mothers are considered "bad women" by Polish society. I bet an unwed mother would never be elected in Poland.
Vox - | 172
26 Jul 2015 #55
You are making a lot of assumptions here and mixing issues. Let stick to the topic.
Would you propose to jail all those people who do not think being a single mother is such a good idea or while talking about people they actually know consider them to be wanton?

Talk to me, so far I have been listening to your ideological bias.

it is so in a lot (if not all) religious countries and yes, it is to stigmatize "bad women and their kids"

I suppose it is better to stigmatize heterosexual white males and call it democracy, right?
jon357 75 | 22,570
26 Jul 2015 #56
religious countries

Essentially in less urban or developed societies.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #57
@Vox: "lol"

in Poland, it would not be difficult to stop asking people's for their parents' id when not necessary (like in most cases).

OK, once again, let's hear it, as a white hetero male, you feel discriminated! By whom?

I don't judge people by their sexual orientation (it's a private matter) and everybody should have same rights and same duties.

@Jon: they always go in pair (rural areas + lack of education = higher religiosity).

As J.P. Sartre said "we all are someone else's Jew" and thus stigmatization and discrimation start with a group and then they concern another group and so forth.
jon357 75 | 22,570
26 Jul 2015 #58
And the kids are stigmatised and get complexes so the shame goes on from generation to generation.
OP InPolska 9 | 1,805
26 Jul 2015 #59
@Jon: I can't talk here but I had that in my closest family (in Poland).
jon357 75 | 22,570
26 Jul 2015 #60
And all outside influence that just hurts people inside. The sad thing is that it still goes on - certainly in Poland.

In the UK, it simply isn't an issue, even in villages.


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