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Surplus of single women in Poland?


Feldeinsamkeit 1 | 5
8 Feb 2015 #1
I have heard from various sources that Poland has a surplus of marriageable ladies relative to men, i.e. in the age range 25-40. I would be extremely interested to hear whether anybody can confirm this, either by way of statistics or from personal experience. Thanks!
DominicB - | 2,677
8 Feb 2015 #2
a surplus of marriageable ladies relative to men

That is true, for to reasons:

Internal migration: people migrate from poorer rural areas, especially in eastern Poland, to the richer cities in search of work. Among these internal migrants, women of marriageable age are over-represented, giving rise to a large surplus of marriageable women in the larger, richer cities. The surplus is quite large.

External migration: people migrate from poorer Poland to richer countries, especially of Western Europe, in search of work. Among these migrants, men of marriageable age are over-represented, resulting in a corresponding deficit of men of marriageable age in Poland as a whole.

A good source is Current Demographical Issues in the Eastern Poland Macroregion
by Dorota CeliƄska-Janowicz et al.

https://books.google.com/books?id=2NRMfCfQwcgC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=marriageable+females+in+Poland+number&source=bl&ots=22L_cI-_yj&sig=oZlVMYIlIKYWlG5y-viOjhnohNA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=r-LXVOLRD7O0sASv4IGQCA&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=marriageable%20f emales%20in%20Poland%20number&f=false
OP Feldeinsamkeit 1 | 5
8 Feb 2015 #3
Thanks for that information, Dominic, it's much appreciated.

I've taken a look at the linked document you gave me, but couldn't help wondering what the overall nationwide ratio of marriageable ladies in the 20-34 age range is, i.e. once you take the average figure which will include the excess of males living in predominantly rural areas. Doesn't the lack of women in the countryside in this age bracket cancel out the surplus of women living in the major cities?
DominicB - | 2,677
9 Feb 2015 #4
Doesn't the lack of women in the countryside in this age bracket cancel out the surplus of women living in the major cities?

No, it doesn't, because of the net loss of marriageable males from Poland as a whole. The ratios of marriageable females to males in rural areas are about equal, whereas in urban areas, marriageable females greatly outnumber marriageable males.

In other words, women from rural areas migrate preferentially to larger cities inside Poland. Men from rural areas migrate to other countries, so there is an overall deficit of marriageable males in Poland overall.

Also, even if there were a surplus of males in rural areas and of females in urban areas, they would not "cancel out", as the extra males and extra females are not in the same place. They would only "cancel out" if marriageable males migrated to the cities or if marriageable females migrated to the countryside.

A last factor is that the proportion of females who feel the need to get married is higher than the proportion of males. Marriage is simply more popular among females than among males. So even if the ratio of females and males of marriageable age were 1:1, there would still be a surplus of women wanting to get married and not being able to find a willing partner.
OP Feldeinsamkeit 1 | 5
9 Feb 2015 #5
No, it doesn't, because of the net loss of marriageable males from Poland as a whole. The ratios of marriageable females to males in rural areas are about equal, whereas in urban areas, marriageable females greatly outnumber marriageable males.

OK, but if what you're saying is correct then this must surely have consequences for the dating market in Poland: Does it follow that guys can then be pickier with women as a result? Do you often see women "dating down", i.e. objectively prettier women dating guys who are less good-looking than they are? And do you have personal experience of dating in Poland in this regard?

Personally-speaking, coming from the UK it's hard to imagine what it must be like for an average guy if Poland really does have more women in the fertile, marriageable age bracket than it does men, given how severe the competition is for women here in England. For example, I recently read that there are at least 150 single men for every 100 single women in the 34-40 age bracket. From my own experience, this is surely an underestimate in many parts of the UK. As a consequence, it's not an unusual sight to see overweight women together with slim, good-looking and tall boyfriends. If what you assert is right, then I'd expect to see the reverse trend in Poland - is this the actually the case?
DominicB - | 2,677
9 Feb 2015 #6
Does it follow that guys can then be pickier with women as a result?

Actually, another complicating factor is that women are generally pickier about mates than men are. They desire mates with high social standing and earnings capacity.

This is a big problem in Poland, where the males leaving the country are often the best and the brightest (so-called "brain drain"). The remaining males are less desirable to the remaining females, who, although they want to get marries, are not eager to marry the remaining males. They might be willing to compromise somewhat, but not many ambitious, educated females want to marry unambitious, uneducated farmhands, to put it in extreme terms.

In the end, there still is a major surplus of marriageable females to males in the country as a whole, smaller in rural areas, and quite large in urban areas.
Kamaz
9 Feb 2015 #7
Locally (rural eastern Poland) my wife and I have been amazed at how many very well educated and attractive women are married to guys who are literally at the education level of farmhands with no interests outside raising a cow and some chickens and getting in a small crop every year. The trick is....these guys came with a house and small farm = stability. What we have wondered is.....what the hell do they find to talk about??
OP Feldeinsamkeit 1 | 5
9 Feb 2015 #8
Sure, but when that high-flying, well-educated Polish guy reaches British or American shores, he's going to be in for one hell of a shock as far as the money- and celebrity-obsessed, frumpy yet insanely picky local British women are concerned, unless he's rich/extremely handsome, which most Polish guys I've encountered in the UK certainly aren't. Isn't he then going to be sorely tempted to return to Poland at some point to try to find a more attractive partner/wife and this will balance out the surplus of women somewhat in the future?

Locally (rural eastern Poland) my wife and I have been amazed at how many very well educated and attractive women are married to guys who are literally at the education level of farmhands with no interests outside raising a cow and some chickens and getting in a small crop every year. The trick is....these guys came with a house and small farm = stability. What we have wondered is.....what the hell do they find to talk about??

The fluctuating price of wheat on the Chicago commodity exchange? ;-) If they get on well and are happy, then good luck to them.

But the situation you described is actually the opposite we have in the UK, where the guy is often much better educated, with a broader range of intellectual interests,than his partner who is more concerned with celebrity gossip magazines and trashy TV, such is the malign influence of the US on British cultural life in recent years coupled with a surplus of single men competing for an increasingly stuck-up and entitled, not to mention an often obese, population of scarce women. If you're a single Polish guy thinking about coming to the UK and maybe in time finding a partner here, please think again - you don't realize how good you have it in Poland.

Incidentally, are there any Polish guys on here who have experience of dating UK women? How would you compare the two countries as far dating is concerned? Would you agree that finding suitable British women to date, especially if you're an older guy around 40, is much more difficult in England than in Poland? I'd be fascinated to hear what your opinions are on this topic.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
9 Feb 2015 #9
money- and celebrity-obsessed, frumpy yet insanely picky local British women are concerned

The thing I like about Polish women is that they like men. That may seem like a silly thing to say, unless you know British women, who for two generations have been told that men are weak, stupid and there to be sucker-punched. No, I don't have bad experiences personally, but I know where you're coming from. The Polish women I know don't expect men to try to be like women; they seem to like us the way we are. Vive la difference!
Slawek9
9 Feb 2015 #10
Lived in London for many years. always plenty of girls who showed interest. there was no more than a month in-between girlfriends plus many ONS. Only dated one Polish girl entire time and just for two months.

Not too much luck dating in Poland although my income now is higher than when I lived in London.
Even now when I visit London I get many more matches on tinder than in Warsaw.
Being a member of beautifulpeople.com, at least in theory, I should be in in the 80th percentile in terms of looks
CalmIt
9 Feb 2015 #11
it's not an unusual sight to see overweight women together with slim, good-looking and tall boyfriends

This is correct.
bogdanek12
9 Feb 2015 #12
Even now when I visit London I get many more matches on tinder than in Warsaw.

Don't think there are that many on Tindr in Warsaw compared to London. Also populations are a bit different. So this could account for the matches. Also there is more of a transient, international population in London who are probably more inclined to date regularly. How many of the girls were actually British? Polish girls do need a bit more time.
Wulkan - | 3,251
9 Feb 2015 #13
what the hell do they find to talk about??

Just because he is a farmer doesn't mean he has no hobbies that would make you look boring in comparison.

Incidentally, are there any Polish guys on here who have experience of dating UK women? How would you compare the two countries as far dating is concerned?

I'm Polish in the UK and I'm passed this. In Poland is much easier and at the same time much more boring.

That may seem like a silly thing to say, unless you know British women, who for two generations have been told that men are weak, stupid and there to be sucker-punched.

Congratulations! You have just won the dumbest statement of the month award. Well done.
Kamaz
9 Feb 2015 #14
Wulkan..have you ever been to and or lived in a poor village in the Podkarpacie? Hobby is an unknown word here, (hobby is making and imbibing bimber) there are guys here who are in their 40,s and have only been to the big town to go to hospital for some examination that the doc recommended. We know a girl in her mid 30,s who will not use escalators in the malls, they scare her, she always take the stairs as do many others. You can play a game called watch the person from the village.....they dither and hop and almost fall over as they mount escalators. It is as they say...a different world and I know having talked to many of these educated women (yes they speak English) that they are desperate to have conversations with people from 'outside' the village. I have lived in Frankfurt, Bruxelles, London, etc and they love to hear about life elsewhere.
Wulkan - | 3,251
10 Feb 2015 #15
I know having talked to many of these educated women (yes they speak English)

You mean those who are scared of escalators?

have you ever been to and or lived in a poor village in the Podkarpacie?

No, but I have been loads of times in the poor village in Podlaskie, it's even more backwards area. My cousin lives there, he makes his living from his passion/hobby which are bees. He has loads of bee hives and he makes the best honey I have ever seen, he can change the tastes and colour by moving the hives around so the bees make it from different trees and flowers and all that, he is a real genius at it. He also plays acoustic guitar pretty well, when I come round in the summer he's always entertaining at the bonfires. I'm afraid he would make you lower your head and walk away because although he has never lived in Frankfurt, Bruxelles or London he has more passion for life than you will ever have.

It looks like you hang out with people who like to look down on the people from the village. Those in fact are the people full of insecurities and the only way they can make themselves look good is by making some one else look bad, I hope you fit in well.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
10 Feb 2015 #16
Congratulations! You have just won the dumbest statement of the month award. Well done.

Please explain.
kaz200972 2 | 229
10 Feb 2015 #17
The thing I like about Polish women is that they like men.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. British women like men as much as any nationality of women do.I think you are mixing up 'dislike' with independence.

It's no big thing for British women to either have or not have a man.Women in Britain are independent enough to know their lives will be okay/good whether or not a man is involved. Most women here are not afraid of being single parents or single and childless, it's no stigma. Education isn't wonderful here but it's enough for women to get a reasonable job or career and it does encourage some freedom of thought.

It's a different situation in Poland and there is still some stigma to being a single woman; that is changing very quickly though and there are plenty of young Polish women who don't see 'having a man' as the be all and end all of life.

I hate to worry you but being in a partnership is rapidly becoming a choice rather than a necessity in many countries, it's regressing in some of the Muslim countries but I don't suppose you'd want an ISIS run government in Europe!!
pigsy 7 | 305
10 Feb 2015 #18
Well said,my wife is from a small village near stalowawola in Podkarpacie voyvoida who runs a very successfull business in states and so are her siblings.Even in her village there are so many successfull people.

It's a different situation in Poland and there is still some stigma to being a single woman; that is changing very quickly though and there are plenty of young Polish women who don't see 'having a man' as the be all and end all of life

And its changing very rapidly.

t I don't suppose you'd want an ISIS run government in Europe!!

sometimes I feel having a 4 bedroom house with no kids does make sense:)
Roger5 1 | 1,458
10 Feb 2015 #19
That's a bit of an exaggeration.

A generalization, I agree, but along with emancipation (which I support whole-heartedly) came a media-driven culture of man-hating, which was very evident in some circles in the 1980s, for example.

I hate to worry you but being in a partnership is rapidly becoming a choice rather than a necessity in many countries, it's regressing in some of the Muslim countries but I don't suppose you'd want an ISIS run government in Europe!!

I'm not at all worried. I'm very glad that the stigma of being single has gone. As for Muslim countries, I think that most of them are beyond hope, at least for the next fifty years.
Veles - | 164
10 Feb 2015 #20
Don't worry, Polish women have many disadvantages too. :)
OP Feldeinsamkeit 1 | 5
10 Feb 2015 #21
No doubt that is true - it's the same with evaluating the pros and cons of a country itself, but it's hard to imagine the net result being worse than what is the case for most men in the UK at the moment and I'm prepared to take my chances in that regard by spending some time in Poland soon to verify the reality for myself.
Marsupial - | 888
10 Feb 2015 #22
I have noticed tbe same as the observations above and agree. Here in australia we have the 3rd type of woman. The bogan woman, a grotesque creature neither man nor woman but I suppose they are everywhere too.
OP Feldeinsamkeit 1 | 5
10 Feb 2015 #23
So, to return to the original question: If there is a surplus of ladies living in the major urban centres of Poland, which cities have the largest surplus? I have heard Wroclaw mentioned once before in this connection, although I have no reliable statistics in terms of a league table, as such. Does anybody on here have any experience of living in a particular city and finding that such a surplus is evident "on the streets" as it were - I am thinking here of the 30-40 age range?


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