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Boys acting and dressing feminine, girls acting and dressing masculine - transgender teens in Poland


Novichok 4 | 7,109
18 Mar 2023 #181
it really does look like you're just trying to argue for the sake of it.

And the reason why you are arguing with maf is what?
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #182
arguing with

We're discussing a topical issue, one that for some has become polarised. He holds an opinion very much at one side of the spectrum, I hold an opinion somewhere in the middle but tending to one side.

As I've said before about this particular bit of the fabricated culture wars, the chattering classes lob word bombs at one another through their computer screens while the people who it actually affects get hurt by the fallout.
Novichok 4 | 7,109
18 Mar 2023 #183
He holds an opinion very much at one side of the spectrum,

There is no equivalence between your position and his.
A tribe with girlie boys and transgenders would perish easily. The same with LGs. A tribe with manly boys would not perish as easily.
Bottom line: abnormal is a threat and a liability.
Have you seen the Ukrainian army in action? Even Russia is impressed. No girlie men there...
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #184
There is no equivalence between your position and his.

He has a position, I don't; I am neutral.

A tribe with girlie boys and transgenders would perish easily.

Don't be silly.

Have you seen the Ukrainian army in action?

Have you?

And of course there are trans soldiers in Ukraine.
Novichok 4 | 7,109
18 Mar 2023 #185
Have you?

Yes. Just as I saw 10,000 other events, including the first nukes going off.
Bottom line: Maf is right. You are wrong.
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #186
Yes.

No, you haven't.

Maf is right.

He isn't and as yiu were told, I take a middle view of it. As I've said, the attitudes of the generation who are now adults and who will shape the future differ hugely from that of reactionaries. The future is trans; get over that.
mafketis 35 | 11,662
18 Mar 2023 #187
Do you not trust the Irish prison service to manage prisoners properly?

Not if they put a psychotic violent male in with women prisoners... no I don't.

The future is trans

Is it?

How on earth can anyone justify an elective double masectomy FOR A 13-YEAR OLD??!?!?!

twitter.com/Liberty_Ctr/status/1636565288618713090

No doctor who takes part in this kind of butchery should be able to practice medicine.

How many more, gloomy and unhappy teens will be mutilated before people realize that "gender affirming care" for minors is equivalent to grievous bodily harm?
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #188
Not if they pu

Do they though? Or do they manage prisoners professionally?

should be able to practice medicine.

Isn't that a matter for medical ethics bodies? They certainly take an interest in this matter, and that interest has little to do with the extreme tweets you spew out here.
Barney 15 | 1,539
18 Mar 2023 #189
How many more, gloomy and unhappy teens will be mutilated before people realize...

I agree for the same reason I oppose capital punishment, its irreversible. Any 9 year old has more sense than your average teen.
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #190
its irreversible.

That's a serious issue.

Unfortunately, the tiny number of extremes are being weaponised against the majority of cases where people transition, often non-surgically, as adults.
Barney 15 | 1,539
18 Mar 2023 #191
@jon357
Again I largely agree and it is a serious issue. I don't want to trivialise the issue but I see it like gluten intolerance where a tiny minority have a real and verifiable condition however millions self diagnose.
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #192
tiny minority have a real and verifiable condition however millions self diagnose.

That's an interesting analogy though I'd say the numbers are the other way round. The metropolitan hipsters are the tiny extreme, whereas the vast majority of trans are in the developing world, in Rio, in Istanbul, in Arab countries, in Thailand and South-East Asia and in the poorer parts of the developed world including Poland.

They (and yes, self diagnosed since most cannot afford any sort of professional support and have created a whole subculture of support among themselves over centuries) are the ones who are left trying to make the best of their usually quite sh1tty lives when the Twitterati have finished slinging mud at each other. They're the ones who can't get jobs, get killed by ISIS and other psychos, can't afford HIV treatment and are seen by some men as fair game to get raped.

But hey, some of the chattering classes and online screamers think that Danny La Rue telling stories is somehow evil
mafketis 35 | 11,662
18 Mar 2023 #193
the vast majority of trans are in the developing world, in Rio, in Istanbul, in Arab countries, in Thailand and South-East Asia

This is a very different issue... you're talking almost entirely about HSTS and not a bunch of pushy AGPs wanting to take pictures of their underwear in ladies rooms....

I'm all for helping them find happier more dignified lives but their struggles have nothing to do with butcher doctors mutilating moody teen girls or spergs play-acting as women because it turns them on.... while empowering the latter won't actually help the third world transexuals any.
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #194
HSTS

AGPs

So many acronyms used by outsiders.

I'm all for helping them find happier more dignified lives

They don't need your 'help'. Just as they don't need fake culture wars among privileged people in wealthy countries using terms like 'spergs' whatever that means or describing NHS doctors as 'butchers'.

And as you very well know, the 'gender critical' online movement don't give a damn about real people. They just want to squeal in fake outrage as they grow older.
Novichok 4 | 7,109
18 Mar 2023 #195
I have a deal for the butchers playing Dr. Mengele...
You cut them and when they alter say that it was a terrible mistake, you will turn your medical license in, give all your assets to the victims, and plead guilty to the crimes against humanity.

No, a child or his parents cannot give consent to committing a crime against him or her.

Another test: How many kids should be allowed to become irreversibly the other gender? 10% or 100%?
mafketis 35 | 11,662
18 Mar 2023 #196
So many acronyms used by outsiders.

Blanchard's typology is pretty sound. It's no surprise that those most against it are freaks like "Kaelie" and I don't understand what is to be gained by going along with his delusion that he's a woman....

And as you very well know,

No I don't. If you've stopped preaching for the time being then explain how a doctor that removes a healthy teenage girl's breasts because she's nervous and moody about becoming a woman is not a butcher.
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #197
freaks

There you go again, the language of hatred. "Freaks". Does using terminology of hatred advance decency?

then explain how a doctor

Ask the doctor, or better yet. consult with the public body that oversees medical ethics.
mafketis 35 | 11,662
18 Mar 2023 #198
Does using terminology of hatred advance decency?

meet Kaelie: twitter.com/i/status/1618156703782162434

Does playing along with his fantasy that he's a woman and should be in women's restrooms advance decency?
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #199
Kaelie:

Is she typical of the several million people who don't fit the gender binary, or is she an extreme you trawled twitter for?
mafketis 35 | 11,662
18 Mar 2023 #200
she

really? You, genuinely, sincerely believe that Kaelie is a woman? I guess I should have expect that since you can't even define the word....
Novichok 4 | 7,109
18 Mar 2023 #201
Ovaries = female. Prostate = male.
All you have to do is stick a finger.
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #202
Kaelie is a woman

I don't know her. Is she someone from the extreme fringes of the current pretend culture war that you found on twitter?

define the word....

Nor do I want or need to. You do seem hung up on trans issues.

I'd really recommend not following culture wars on twitter; the loudest voices tend to be the most extreme and polarising. It is on the whole quite unhealthy.

And meanwhile, there are several million people outside the gender binary that have to get on with their lives while middle-aged and middle-class twitter and facebook users get all worked up over something that doesn't touch their lives at all.
mafketis 35 | 11,662
18 Mar 2023 #203
the gender binary

Not a thing I believe in. There is biological sex which is a binary and determined by gametes (of which there are only two - no third gamete or spectrum between gametes, just two)

A very tiny minority of people (far less than one percent) that are a bit harder to classify but that doesn't undermine the binary.

large gametes = female

small gametes = male

I have a lot of sympathy for those who publicly want to live as the other sex and even admire some like the Turkish singer B├╝lent Ersoy but I draw the line at irreversible and dangerous medical interventions into normally functioning adolescent bodies and males competing against women in sporting events and obvious males pretending to be 'trans' so they can pleasure themselves in women's spaces.

The never-ending intrustion of niche trans issues into the mainstream pushed by men like James "Jennifer" Pritzker does nothing to help vulnerable sexual non-conformists in countries hostile to them. If anything they make things worse for them.

We all have our limits, I'm just open about what mine are.
jon357 71 | 21,098
18 Mar 2023 #204
Not a thing I believe in.

Indeed. It isn't about what you believe unless it affects you directly.

I have a lot of sympathy for

The millions of people in this world who do not conform to the gender binary do not need 'sympathy'. Nor do they need a culture war with extremists trying to deny their reality.

intrustion

Intrusion? How do trans people, including transgender women like Jennifer Pitcher intrude into your life?

One very positive step is that the younger generations are very trans-inclusive (much to the annoyance of reactionaries) and in the future we will doubtless see many changes, some of them surprising. As transhumanism develops, we will be far less limited by biological constraints than we as a species have been hitherto. It is hard to know why anyone would take issue with this.
Miloslaw 15 | 4,668
18 Mar 2023 #205
The millions of people in this world who do not conform to the gender binary

is it really millions?
Thousands more likely......

How do trans people, including transgender women like Jennifer Pitcher intrude into your life?

Because they mess up the universal status quo where men are men and women are women.
We "Got" Gay people decades ago and even bisexuality has been accepted for many years.
But trans? And "gender fluid" Is just muddying the water.
People are hetero,Gay or Bi.....the rest is just posturing rubbish.
Novichok 4 | 7,109
19 Mar 2023 #206
But trans? And "gender fluid" Is just muddying the water.

After "gender fluid" we will have fluid math, physics, and chemistry, and there will be no correct answers - only what we will identify as correct. You know...we are all individuals...

Actually, math is already "racist".
jon357 71 | 21,098
19 Mar 2023 #207
Thousands more likely......

Millions. Thailand, Brazil, Turkey, the Arab world, the Philippines. A lot more than people think.

We "Got" Gay people decades ago

Long. long before that.

"gender fluid"

The future will be interesting.
mafketis 35 | 11,662
19 Mar 2023 #208
including transgender women like Jennifer Pitcher intrude into your life?

Just because I'm not a woman doesn't mean I don't care when women's spaces (created for a reason) are invaded by intact males who "identify" as female.

Just because I'm not a woman doesn't mean I don't care when women's sports are turned into low comedy by the participation of intact males with a cross-dressing fetish.

Just because I don't have a daughter doesn't mean I don't care when adolescent females undergo irreversible medical procedures like double masectomies.

All these things make any society worse.

The root of _all_ totalitarianism is forcing people to say things that they know is untrue.

Every single time those on team reality have tried to maintain a line between biological categories and fantasies in the head, some spergy AGP comes along and cr@ps all over it.

Recently one high profile AGP said (paraphrasing) "I'm a woman, and I'm not a cyborg, so I'm a biological woman!" I think that's when I lost my last shred of sympathy for TRAs and went full on TERF (actually that happened earlier, that's what made me stop being polite about the issue).

Also attempts at rewriting history (Kurt Cobain? probably trans!) or simply blatantly lie (Stonewall? Led by trans people!) have just strengthened that.

Real gender non-conforming people (not a large group, no) are going to have to wait until the pushy AGP's are shoved back into the closet where they belong.

I'm afraid that overreach by the trans radicals is going to cause a backlash against LGB people (signs of that are already apparent which is one reason that some gay men and lesbians are some of the most outspoken opponents of the trans agenda).

People are hetero,Gay or Bi.....the rest is just posturing rubbish.

I'd add Asexual to that mix (though with appropriate therapy they may end up as one of the other categories) but basically yes.

The number of people who are cannot be conveniently and accurately classified as male or female is extremely small. Two sexes.

An adult is naturally a man or a woman and is attracted to men, women, both or neither.

Anything else is just attention vvhoring.
jon357 71 | 21,098
19 Mar 2023 #209
invaded

There you go again.

Next you'll be calling refugees and migrants 'invaders'

The language of the tabloids and of the obsessed.

that's when I lost my last shred of sympathy for TRAs and went full on TERF

So extreme. Most people don't get so worked up. In any issue (even a fair culture war) it is unwise to side with extremes.

a large group, no

Millions worldwide.

And don't worry, we LGBTQ+ people are well used to 'backlashes'. Don't forget, we win every battle we fight.
GefreiterKania 25 | 1,102
19 Mar 2023 #210
LGBTQ+

Erm... isn't it LGBTQQICAAAPPF2K+ (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Curious, Asexual, Agender, Ally, Pansexual, Polysexual, Friends and family, Two-spirit and Kink) these days? You really shouldn't exclude the QICAAAPPF2K community or (even worse) band them all together with the "+" sign.


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