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Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun?



Harry 79 | 13,413    
4 Jan 2017  #181

I wonder why he won't tell us how many Polish law abiding citizens have murdered by using a firearm.

Sigh. New year, same old trolling from Johnny. He gets caught telling a pointless and blatant lie, then lies about what he said and then lies about somebody else, before rounding out his post with more lies.

Actually I'm very happy to tell him how many Poles have been murdered by somebody shooting them. In 2011 (the most recent year for which there is full data) there were 449 murders and in 5% of them the mechanism was a firearm (source data.unodc.org). So 22 murders by firearm. Given an overall murder rate of 1.2 per 100,000 of the population, that makes a murder by firearm rate of 0.06 per 100,000.

If we compare that to the USA, in 2011 there were 14,661 murders and 59% of them involved the use of a firearm. So that's 8,650 murders by firearm. Given an overall murder rate of 4.7 per 100,000 of the population, that makes a murder by firearm rate of 2.77 per 100,000.

Wow, firearms are really good at keeping the USA safe. And surprisingly enough Johnny wasn't telling the truth when he claimed that "it would be about the same number as the United States".


Ironside 44 | 8,293    
4 Jan 2017  #182

why would Poles want an increase in those low gun crime figures

I don't see connection between gun ownership and an increase in gun crime.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
4 Jan 2017  #183

connection between gun ownership and an increase in gun crime.

Did you miss the part about the USA having a murder by firearm rate of 2.77 per 100,000 people while Poland has a murder by firearm rate of 0.06 per 100,000 people?

Either there's something in Americans which makes them 46.1 times more likely to murder somebody by shooting them than Poles are to do the same, or Poles shoot 46.1 times fewer people than Americans because it's so much harder for them to get their hands on guns. I'll let you tell us which is the correct explanation.
Peeweeher    
4 Jan 2017  #184

Harry
Out of the 22 murders by firearm in Poland, we're any of them murder in during another crime such as robbery,rape or home invasion?
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
4 Jan 2017  #185

Did you miss the part about the USA having a murder by firearm rate of 2.77 per 100,000 people while Poland has a murder by firearm rate of 0.06 per 100,000 people?

Geez Harry!
1. Correlation doesn't imply causation.
2. Comparisons of any kind almost always are flawed.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
4 Jan 2017  #186

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Surely you don't want to tell us that it's just pure chance that a country which has very slack gun laws has a murder by firearm rate that's more than forty-six times higher than a country which has strict gun laws? Not even Cartman would be moronic enough to claim that!
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,328    
4 Jan 2017  #187

a country which has very slack gun laws

we cannot judge 'the states' by our European standards or even compare it. Carrying a gun was part of surviving on the frontier. It's in their culture, 'the right to bear arms'.
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
4 Jan 2017  #188

chance that a country which has very slack gun laws

USA doesn't have a very slack gun laws.

just pure chance

No, that is not a pure chance. There other issues in play.
I'm saying that more guns in the hands of people in Poland wouldn't mean more murders or crimes.

Poland has this historical tradition that citizens had the right to arm themselves in any way they deemed fit.
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #189

we cannot judge 'the states' by our European standards or even compare it. Carrying a gun was part of surviving on the frontier.

So you don't judge USA by their culture of having guns common even when facts indicate that crimes involving the use of firearms are many times more often than in countries where gun possession is restricted yet you whine and complain about Polish culture of not wanting to have anything in common with Islam even when facts indicate that crimes committed in countries that host muslims are many times more often than in countries where muslims are few?

Logic.
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #190

I'm saying that more guns in the hands of people in Poland wouldn't mean more murders or crimes.

What is the chance for a gun law to lower the number or crimes then? If it's low (and I know it's very very low) then introducing it would be just high risk with virtually no gain so pointless. Remember that prevention is way way easier than dealing with effects later.
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
5 Jan 2017  #191

Remember that prevention is way way easier than dealing with effects later.

What arte you some police state? A ruler or a king? If people want to own guns take a snout of their business. If they commit a crime with it just hang the bugger and the case is solved.

Prevention. Prevent that you commie - one finger salute!
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #192

people want to own guns

Poles don't because they're aware of the dangers liberal gun possession brings and know that prevention is way way easier than dealing with effects later. Simple. No state police needed.
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
5 Jan 2017  #193

Poles don't because

What Poles? Some do and some don't! Prevention is a BS not argument.

with effec

what effects? imaginary scaremongering effects?
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #194

what effects?

High rates of crimes involving the usage of firearms.

If those Poles you speak of so desperately need a firearm they can move to a country that will provide it. Most Poles don't and it's a democracy.
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
5 Jan 2017  #195

High rates of crimes involving the usage of firearms.

Dude, are you listening? (reading with comprehension?)
How on Earth do you connect gun ownership with a high rate of crimes? That even doesn't make sense.

Most Poles don't and it's a democracy.

How the hell do you know that? You don't want it and are feeding people horsesh...t.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,328    
5 Jan 2017  #196

yet you whine and complain about Polish culture of not wanting to have anything in common with Islam

I do?
Really?
Maybe you could link to where I have done that exactly. Thanks!...:)
The only person "whining" on this forum is you. Even your user name is a whine.
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #197

@rozumiemnic
My username is just a sign for you to keep in mind you're just a guest here.

PS. I can't provide a quote because it was deleted by a mod after you insulted me and my fellow countrymen by saying that only "unemployed losers" are patriots and against immigration. You basically insulted like 80% of Poles.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,328    
5 Jan 2017  #198

A guest where exactly? You know where I live?
At no point have I mentioned Islam.
What I said was that only unemployed losers would spend their time with a provocative user name whining about immigration to a bunch of strangers on an internet forum. And I stand by that.
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #199

@Ironside
Just compare gun involved crimes rates of countries where gun possession is restricted with countries where its more liberal. Simple and obvious for common people from the very first glance. Nobody digs deeper than that.

I'll do the search for you. You seem to struggle with that.

First from Google.

dziennikzachodni.pl/polska-i-swiat/a/sondaz-polacy-nie-chca-dostepu-do-broni,11544982

80% is not "some". It's vast majority.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,328    
5 Jan 2017  #200

by the way nothing I have posted has been deleted...:)
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #201

@rozumiemnic
LIAR.

Your post in Wigilia thread where yo called me and other Poles unemployed losers has been removed.
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
5 Jan 2017  #203

What I said was that only unemployed losers would spend their time with a provocative user name whining about immigration

Nope. You said I am an unemployed loser just like people that are anti immigration.

Stop lieing. It doesn't suit a "lady" rofl And if you are not in Poland then actually I felt a relief.
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
5 Jan 2017  #204

Just compare gun involved crimes rates of countries where gun possession is restricted with countries where its more liberal

Compare what? Have all debate in this thread has gone over your head. Let me repeat:
1. Correlation doesn't imply causation.
2. Comparisons of any kind almost always are flawed.
NoToForeigners 7 | 853    
6 Jan 2017  #205

@Ironside
Dude. I know a lot of Poles and all DON'T WANT WEAPONS HERE BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENS IN USA. PERIOD. None of them are thinking deeper about why gun crimes are so often in USA. None of them searches for any other causes. THEY CORRELATE GUN CRIMES IN USA WITH THE ACCESSIBILITY OF GUNS ON THEIR OWN AND THAT'S WHY 80% OF US DON'T WANT THEM HERE. SINCE POLAND IS DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY MAJORITY RULES AND IT RULES FIREARMS OUT.

Jeez...
johnny reb 13 | 2,463    
6 Jan 2017  #206

Poland will soon be following in the footsteps of the Chezch's by popular demand.

A couple of months ago, Czech President Milos Zeman made an unusual request: He urged citizens to arm themselves against a possible "super-Holocaust" carried out by Muslim terrorists.

Never mind that there are fewer than 4,000 Muslims in this country of 10 million people.........gun purchases spiked.
One shop owner in East Bohemia, a region in the northern center of the Czech Republic, told a local paper that people were scared of a "wave of Islamists."

Now the country's interior ministry is pushing a constitutional change that would let citizens use guns against terrorists.
Proponents say this could save lives if an attack occurs and police are delayed or unable to make their way to the scene.
Chemikiem 4 | 894    
6 Jan 2017  #207

I don't see connection between gun ownership and an increase in gun crime.

From the link to the Polish statistics you gave earlier, there were 32 gun deaths in Poland for the year 2014. That's pretty low. Do you not see the connection between the fact that there are limited numbers of guns in Poland and therefore low numbers of deaths and gun crimes? From that same link, 9 guns were used during fights, one was used in a rape, and 22 people suffered gun related injuries.

Guns in Poland are not easy to get hold of, so it stands to reason that this is why there is less gun related crime, or do you disagree? By definition, an increase in the numbers of guns available, will surely lead to more gun related crime.

Both the Czech republic and Switzerland are countries where it is legal to have guns for self defence, and both have higher rates of gun death and crime than Poland. Consider also that Czech Republic only has about 10 million people, and Switzerland 8 million, in contrast to Poland's 38 million.

Then look at Romania for example, a country which has very strict gun laws. There are less gun deaths there than in Poland even.

2. Comparisons of any kind almost always are flawed.

To a degree you are right, many people will automatically try to compare the US to Poland for gun deaths and crime, but the two countries have very different problems and populations. However I still think that the US is a good example of numbers of guns relating to numbers of gun crimes. 89 out of 100 people own guns in the US. I don't think it is a coincidence that there are very high numbers of guns in the US and very high numbers of gun related deaths. If you disagree, then what would your reason be to explain this?

DON'T WANT WEAPONS HERE BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENS IN USA. PERIOD. None of them are thinking deeper about why gun crimes are so often in USA.

I agree, I've pointed this out before on another gun thread.
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
7 Jan 2017  #208

know a lot of Poles and all DON'T WANT WEAPONS HERE BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENS IN USA. PERIOD

So, they're misinformed and scared by scaremongers.

. That's pretty low. Do you not see the connection between the fact that there are limited numbers of guns in Poland and therefore low numbers of deaths and gun crimes?

Those are just a pure speculations, predicting the future not an easy task.

don't think it is a coincidence that there are very high numbers of guns in the US and very high numbers of gun related deaths.

I disagree it is due to few other issues. However we are not talking about USA.
I think people debating guns laws are going about it a wrong way. Should only talk about crimes committed by the legal gun owners rather than about general gun related deaths.
Peeweeher    
8 Jan 2017  #209

So, they're misinformed and scared by scaremonger

Nope, the couldn't give a ****. They don't want guns and that is it.
johnny reb 13 | 2,463    
8 Jan 2017  #210

So you are speaking for the whole country of Poland now ?
Well Pee Wee I have a few Polish pen Pals that disagree with you so I guess that is not that is it.




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