Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun?

That is the true understanding of Catholics""you can't serve two masters..""
You're indeed god children!!

Honestly when I read what kind of measures are now discussed in the USA I instantly become very grateful for the laws we habe in Europe. Say what you want, but we dont need armed guards in schools and have children practice emergency drills in case of a school shooting... .

But who's going to protect you from these police?

youtube.com/watch?v=6z1PqKLBPQM

I think they arr also talkimg about armed teachers ! Bizarre - i had plenty of teacherd in my time who haf alcohol problems or nervous breakdowns

Alcohol dependents are prohibited persons from owning firearms. It is in fact the first question you have to answer when filling out a permit.

Is it conceivable that a teacher might lie when asked if he is an alcoholic? Ever met many alkies who will admit it ?

The mental gymnastics used to avoid a simple truth would be hilarious if there were not 30.000 people a year dying.

Maybe a simple solution is to ban schools.

In next weeks episode "terrorists use trucks - should we ban trucks?"

No but your assumption is foolish. That 'some' people who will own firearms are alcoholics, that's true. Some people that drive cars are alcoholics and make the reckless decision to get behind the wheel. It doesn't negate the privilege people have to drive cars because some people abuse it, nor does it negate the constitutionally protected right for people who own guns responsibly to do so, because some people are alcoholics and own them. I agree that the ability to buy firearms should be scrutinized more closely, I am just opposed to your initial argument because it's so incredibly weak.

I wouldn't be opposed to a mental health check with a psychologist prior to obtaining a firearms ID card (firearms purchaser license). The present system of a questionnaire is obviously woefully inadequate. The number of deaths due to guns when juxtaposed with the number of legal owners in America who are responsible, is small. More to the point, the vast amount of gun crimes are committed by prohibited persons (felons, mental defectives, etc). Our focus should be on making firearms more difficult for those prohibited persons to obtain, and figuring out how to go about that. It certainly does not start by punishing the millions of responsible owners who use firearms to protect their lives and property. Nor is there a solution in banning scary features on firearms which serve little functional purpose. So, I think we agree in tighter restrictions on the purchase of firearms, we should think about good ways to achieve that. I think the focus should be on the point of sale, I don't oppose mandatory background checks, mental health screens, and waiting periods, I think those are all perfectly reasonable requests. I would also really like to see penalties for prohibited persons found in possession of firearms, at present the system is such that a convicted felon could be caught with a firearm and be let go on probation, or only 1 year in jail.

Sig Sauer, an American will never convince the average European citizen that it is either necessary or desirable for civilians to own guns for the purposes of self defence. This is quite simply a cultural gap that can't be bridged.

Absolutely - they will have to arrive at this solution themselves. Segregation seemed completely natural to Americans but eventually the tide turned, the electoral and business logic for it melted and the system changed.

Sig I don't think you have kids. If you did would you want their science teacher to be a good teacher or to be confident with a gun ? Would you want more guns in your kids school or less ? Such simple questions to the rest of the world but polity and culture in the US are so different.

It's not guns, it's people. America produces too many crazy people and crazy people and guns are not a good combo. When you control for drug gang murders and suicide gun crime rates in the US are actually astonishingly low if at times spectacularly insane.

Thats very comforting if your teenage kid was shot in the back in her school corridor.

Also not true - there are hundreds of innocent people killed every year in crossfire in drug wars, taking out drugs and suicides the murder rates from firearms are still 5-6x higher than in Europe

Isn't it though?


that is a problem but no one wants to address it because it's politically too sensitive (for racial reasons)

@Atch

I'm not trying to convince them that they should do this IN Europe. I would just prefer that Europeans didn't try to convince us that their way is best for us.

@cms

I don't want to see more guns in the hands of teacher as a matter of policy. I would simply like those teachers who are already licensed to carry firearms to have the option of choosing to do it at work without facing a penalty. For instance, firearms were 'banned' on my college campus, but there was not a state law which made it illegal to have a firearm on campus, it was a university rule. With that in mind, during my time in college when I turned 21, I made the decision to carry my firearm on me (for which I had a permit to do so in the state), and risk the university penalty if I was ever put in a position where I needed it. My calculus was that I would rather be alive or prevent myself being the victim of a forcible felony, and deal with the consequences from the university that might follow. I would have made a vastly different decision if I would have faced a criminal penalty for defending my life or property. The situation that creates, is that the only ones willing to carry firearms in those circumstances are prohibited persons and criminals, as people like myself who care about a clean criminal record avoid breaking the law.

@mafketis/@cms

Right, and I am in favor of decriminalizing all currently prohibited drugs. Almost all of the deleterious side effects of drug use/sale are BECAUSE of their illegality, not because of the drug.

Now as a European citizen, I find it shocking that a young person in a highly developed and ostensibly civilized country would find themselves in that position. Is it not time that Americans began to take a long, hard look at their society and rather than lecturing Europe about their migrant crisis etc, should people like yourself not be devoting themselves to curing the various cancers that seem to permeate American society and which America seems to think normal or at least acceptable.

I'm not sure what those two topics really have in common. Anyway, violent crime and specifically murder has been on a downward trend since the early 90s and is continuing to fall nationwide each year.

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ft_17-02-15_crime_310px

In a world where we could remove the firearms from criminals and mental defectives, I still want the right for me and my loved ones to defend ourselves with the most efficient and deadly means possible, and that happens to be a firearm in the 21st century. Firearms are not just used in gun battles, or whatever the perception is. Firearms are an equalizing force that gives me a fighting chance against multiple unarmed but physically superior attackers. Firearms give women who generally have a much smaller muscle mass than men, the chance to defend themselves against a male attacker with superior physical strength. They also provide an efficient means for stopping property crimes, home invasions, and all manners of forcible felonies. No one should be relegated to the position of having to just 'endure' a beating from another human being, or required to flee from a place they have the legal right to be because of the threat of physical violence.

But Atch is right. When i was at college in the US i would say maybe 20 percent of people i talked to shared your views. Guns were banned on campus but now I see there has also been some clash with state law.

But in Europe that kind of view is an extreme position - I cannot think of anybody sensible that I have dealt with who would share it in Poland for example. Turning up to university with a gun would be a socially acceptable as shooting heroin in a lecture theatre.

No Sig Sauer. You're talking about an American gun culture that has its roots in the nineteenth century (if not the eighteenth). There is no place for firearms in a civilized society in the 21st century. All around Europe, students go to college every day without the need to carry a gun to protect themselves. Why do you need to do it in America?


What they have in common is that some Americans seem to perceive Europe as 'dangerous' due to the influx of migrants and you yourself have made numerous references to assaults, rapes and terrorist attacks but in fact the chances of being murdered in a public place by a random lunatic are statistically far greater in America than they are in Europe. What happened in Florida recently was basically the equivalent of a terrorist attack and it's all too frequent in your homeland.

For an American it's shocking that a person in a highly developed and ostensibly civilized country is so resigned to leaving questions of personal security entirely to the state...

It's the kind of lack of survival instinct that led a bunch of placid Swedes to simply watch Anna Lindh being murdered without trying to intervene

Also medical tests like they do for life insurance for drugs,alcohol and nicotine.

@Atch

The point is that I never want to need it. No one needs one until they need it. The police are not pro-active, they are reactive, they come and take a report ex post facto, after your or your loved ones life has been irrevocably changed. All manner of forcible felonies can occur without firearms; strong arm robbery, assault and battery, assault with a deadly weapon(knife), and rape. I choose not to be a victim, if that time comes. When a criminal utilizes violence to achieve their crime, they've forfeited their right both to self-defense and to life. The state which prohibits firearms from their citizens denies them the most efficient and equalizing tool known, and it protects the criminal from violent and deadly repercussions for their actions. I still pray that I will never need to use my firearm, but if that day does come, I pray that I will use it effectively, with violence of action, and end the life of the criminal attempting to do me harm. I feel that all law abiding citizens should be able to take ownership of their own defense, if they so choose. The state will not, and in fact cannot always be there to protect you.

is there a footage of it in the interenet? did people really watch the woman being stabbed and did not react?

I think people do have a survival instinct. They just don't necessarily need guns to demonstrate that. I can't speak for Swedes but in Ireland we have an unarmed police force and there are numerous examples of the public getting stuck in and disarming and apprehending criminals. Just a few weeks ago this happened in Dublin:

rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0102/930590-tallaght-robbery

@gumishu

Check deep web for such videos. It may also be on liveleak.com or bestgore.com if its not too bad. Ill look for it kater at work n let you know

Actually serbia switzerland czechy and a few others have very high rates of gun ownership and little crime esp wjen compared to germanistan united kaliphate and french emirate. Theres nothing wrong with guns. I had my first 22 rifle at 11 12 and ive never had the urge to shoot an innocent person. You really think gun control makes a difference? Look at sweden you have somalis throwing hand gernades and killing kids with no shotguns or rifles for the parents to legally buy to protect their homes against intruders. Look at france and all the suburbs around paris or marseilles which has shootings non stop. In poland a person can obtain a firearm legally for hunting sport or self defense (if for self defense they must prove they need it i.e. a jeweller who carries a lot of cash and gems on him everyday). I encourage all polish citizens to buy firearms and if theyre unable to or dont want to deal with the paperworm atleast go for bobby pistols crossbows mace etc.

You can encourage us but thankfully we are not able to drive down to Biedronka and get one. I like that - it means we have a far safer society.

That's because Poland is relatively free of crime - it's not suffering the effects of a migrant invasion like its next door neighbor Germany. So yes, in terms of self defense there really isn't a big need for firearms in Poland. Nonetheless, I believe at the very least every woman should carry some sort of weapon - preferably a small handgun - in the event some dude gets frisky with her she can quickly put two in his chest one in the head and he'll never assault a woman again.

And actually there's plenty of weapon shops - while you can't buy like an AK47 off the shelf except for specialty shops in which you first have to fill out paperwork, take mental tests, undergo a background check, etc. - you can still purchase bobby pistols which can easily be converted, mace, flash bang grenades, etc. Plus, if a person really wants to buy a gun they can print one using a 3d printer or simply buy all the parts individually from the web. Or if someone is more handy with CNC drills and machining they can make their own grease gun - which Poles made en masse to fight the Nazis and Russians back in ww2. No serial number, no paperwork.

There are not many migrants in West Virginia either, but it has a gun crime rate 20 times that of comparable coal mining towns in Poland.

Stop lecturing us about migrants and deal with the terrorists in your own country first.

Is the issue here really, like the old saw suggests. that "migrants bring crime", or possibly that the arrival of migrants into countries like Germany, less so Poland, was merely the catalyst needed to unleash gun violence which might have been lying dormant all along, but was triggered by the unexpected sight of dark-skinned "foreign" faces among a populace not accustomed to such changes?

Guess I'm by nature a skeptic and don't feel comfortable with quick-fix type solutions to infinitely complicated issues, that's all.

When our president stated a week ago, that such shootings as occurred in Florida indicate what happens when the mentally ill have access to assault weapons, clearly, he was missing the point. The point is why are guns in the hands of so many "normal" people to begin with, the deranged notwithstanding!

Please spare us the b/s about "dark skinned" anything, no place for that identity politics here. No one gives a flying **** about their skin color, but people do care about their own citizens getting sexually assaulted and having to stay in women only safe zones at concerts and big events, they could be neon green and it would still be a problem if they're creating insecurity as Germany's own crime statistics have verified.

What is so complicated about this? Lax gun control leads to more mass shootings, it is as simple as that.

Oh, now I getcha, Siggie. OK, so if the recent migrants had been Swedes, Norwegians or Dutchmen, things would have been different and the discourse more civilized, is that it?

YEAH, RIGHT!!!