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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


NoToForeigners 10 | 1,049
18 Nov 2017 #1,171
There was no country before colonist

There were Poles before Poland was established. There were Anglos and Hispanic before US was. And only people of mixed ethnicity don't care about it. Just like all homos being leftist. And all blacks being racist.
Ironside 50 | 10,814
18 Nov 2017 #1,172
There were Poles before Poland was established

You cannot compare Europe where an indigenous populace created European culture based on nationality with USA/ Those are apples and oranges.
There were no Poles in the modern sense before Poland was established. There were some tribes and dominant tribe with a dynasty.

And only people of mixed ethnicity don't care about it.

No only fragile insecure teenagers care about as well as looser and racists.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
18 Nov 2017 #1,173
If guns do become legal in pl I def want a good polish or czech (usually modern soviet versions) handgun or rifle. A lot of older generation poles esp in the country often have shotguns for hunting and home defense.
gumishu 11 | 5,596
19 Nov 2017 #1,174
czech

Czechs have their own desings of pistols if I recall correctly (CZ - Ceska Zbrojovka)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
21 Nov 2017 #1,175
@gumishu

Yup. They sure do. My first bb gun was a cz. Some handgun models are very popular in the US
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
27 Nov 2017 #1,176
Americans have over 300 million guns and trillions of rounds of ammo.
Seriously folks if we were the problem you would know it.
I see gun violence in the U.K. increased by 27% last year.
Now how can that be where guns are outlawed ?
The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) conducted a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.

The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.
Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes.

I guess this just proves that when guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns..
KiWo - | 23
27 Nov 2017 #1,177
Here's the graph from the UK Office of National Statistics:

Office of National Statistics gun crime graph

So, that's up 27% on the previous year to a total of 6,696 for all gun crimes in a country with a population of 65,648,000.

The combined population of the states of Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Ohio and West Virginia is 65,634,284. In 2016, in these five states, there were 2,768 homicides, 35,112 robberies and 56,016 aggravated assaults all involving firearms. Giving a total of 93,896 - 1402% higher.

The Polish people are free to make their own minds up about which style of gun legislation they prefer.
Chemikiem 7 | 2,477
27 Nov 2017 #1,178
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Here it is:-

" While there was an overall increase in offences involving firearms in the year ending March 2016, most of the increase was in less serious weapons such as imitation firearms (up 27%; 308 offences) and air weapons (up 9%; 263 offences).

In addition:

" There were 26 fatalities resulting from offences involving firearms; 7 more than the previous year. "

ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/offencesinvolvingtheuseofweapons

26 deaths over a whole year, that's about the same amount of deaths as in the recent Texas church shooting, just one of many, many mass US shootings.

Remind me how many gun homicides a year the US has? For the same period, FBI data lists 9616 gun homicides.
If you seriously think that Poland needs that kind of sh1t, then you really must be nuts.

the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent

5% actually, but you didn't bother reading the actual report, your data comes from Infowars. Enough said.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
28 Nov 2017 #1,179
but you didn't bother reading the actual report, your data comes from Infowars. Enough said.

Oh I read several articles about it contrary to your belittlement.
Are you suggesting that Info Wars lied ?
I know it is embarrassing for you Brits to admit that a country with a ban on hand guns still has gun crime.
That is my point here.
Why should law abiding citizens be not allowed to own a gun as we are not the ones committing gun violence.
Seems the criminals can acquire a gun in the U.K. just as easily as they can in the U.S. if they really want one.

Why doesn't that sink in ??????
As much as you are against guns (for some unknown reason) I am for such a freedom.
Here is just one more very good article on the U.K.s failure to curb gun crime by banning them.
nraila.org/articles/20171117/with-firearm-offenses-up-27-percent-uk-holds-national-gun-surrender
cms 9 | 1,271
28 Nov 2017 #1,180
But the U.K. is 10x as effective in reducing gun crime as the US is.

Tx, Tn. O, WV -one other thing - all low levels of education, lots of guns, vote for dangerous idiot Trump. Nice barbecue though.
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
28 Nov 2017 #1,181
It is just funny how the NRA tries to paint "Surprise gun inspections" as a bad thing. Americans might tolerate that every people - often children - die because weapons are not safely stored. But in Europe this is not acceptable.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
28 Nov 2017 #1,182
the U.K. is 10x as effective in reducing gun crime as the US is.

Yet the U.K. who has banned guns still has gun crime making the point that it is NOT the law abiding citizens that are committing these crimes yet they lose their freedom of owning a gun AND if a criminal wants a gun he can get one in the U.K. making it an uneven playing field.

- often children - die because weapons are not safely stored. But in Europe this is not acceptable.

Its not accepted in the U.S. neither as anyone guilty of not storing a gun safely making it accessible to children goes to jail.
KiWo - | 23
28 Nov 2017 #1,183
Seems the criminals can acquire a gun in the U.K. just as easily as they can in the U.S. if they really want one.

Actually, since gun related crime is well over a 1000% higher in the U.S. it seems that it must be very much harder for U.K. criminals to acquire a gun.
Lyzko 29 | 7,100
28 Nov 2017 #1,184
Most Americans outside our major urban areas believe in all good conscience that guns are good, that G-d, guns, and guts are what made America what and where she is today!

Well, I'm sure glad somebody out there's finally taken some blame aka responsibility for our current state of affairs:-)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
29 Nov 2017 #1,185
@KiWo

Nope, just more expensive to buy a gun illegally. No $50 glock with bodies gratis deals in the hood. In Japan you need a license to buy an air rifle yet that doesn't stop Yakuza guys from buying guns.

Besides, with 3d printers or some basic tool shop knowledge a person can either print off an ar15 with no serial or convert a bobby gun into a small caliber pistol.
KiWo - | 23
29 Nov 2017 #1,186
So what do you think it is that makes them more expensive?

Correctly printing 3D parts and assembling them is much harder than simply going into a shop and buying one.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
29 Nov 2017 #1,187
@KiWo

Not at all. Anyone can buy a 3d printer and download freeware to print off a fully functioning AR-15.

A new cheap colt ar15 costs $999 at walmart. This article says it would cost $1200 to print your own ar15...

extremetech.com/extreme/191388-1200-the-price-of-legally-3d-printing-your-own-metal-ar-15-rifle-at-home

Another article about 3d printed guns
reason.com/reasontv/2016/11/23/3d-gun-printer-cody-wilson-on-the-right

There are several videos showing 50, 100, even I believe up to 600 rounds going through a plastic 3d printed ar15 before it fails.. the more improved models average around 100. Cody Wilson is the guy who basically thought of this idea and gave his software out for free.
cms 9 | 1,271
30 Nov 2017 #1,188
Wouldn't it take about a week to print it though ? Plus a lot of power ? Can you print the ammo too ? By the time you do that you might have calmed down and decided the best way to deal with your noisy neighbor would be to call the Straz, rather than shoot him.
Ironside 50 | 10,814
30 Nov 2017 #1,189
call the Straz, rather than shoot him.@ cms

Or chop him up with an ax you can get anywhere and you don't need to even sane or a citizen of the country. In fact you could wipe a whole family of the neighbor in their house.

Why people who want to take anyway other people rights are so dim?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
30 Nov 2017 #1,190
@cms

No takes a few hours to print. Ammunition can be purchased without a foid card. If someone wants to cause mayhem they'll find a way whether it's building a bomb, buying an illegal weapon, driving a truck into a crowd, etc. Laws aren't going to change that. It comes down to the person's morals and society. Switzerland norway czechy etc have very high rates of legal gun ownerahip yet very little violent crime. Yet uk germany and France have very restrictive laws yet tons of violent crime esp w the flood of cultural enrichment. Chicago has had the most restrictive gun laws of any uS. city and for decades has been the murder capital. In fact gun crime is down since the 90s when there was a total ban on handguns.
cms 9 | 1,271
30 Nov 2017 #1,191
I don't know what an FOID card is but we don't have them in Poland and even if you have a 3D gun you could not get ammo. Which is good because guns are dangerous and the vast majority of Poles don't want them on the street.

The U.K., France and Germany all have far lower murder rates than the US.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
30 Nov 2017 #1,192
" It should also be noted that the UK's definition of "firearm," as used for statistical purposes, includes some imitation guns and other non-firearm items, like pepper spray and stun guns. "

nraila.org/articles/20171117/with-firearm-offenses-up-27-percent-uk-holds-national-gun-surrender

the U.K. banned guns thNOTthe lawabidingcitizens committingthese crimes they theirofa guncriminal gun get in U.K. an uneven playing field.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Criminals don't use guns in the UK to commit crimes, they are used to fight occasional gang related disputes. Nobody gets robbed at gun-point, the majority of mugging s and bag snatching is by unarmed assailants. Using a knife is exceptional, because its utterly unnecessary.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
30 Nov 2017 #1,193
You are living in cloud cuckoo land

Really and what is so cuckoo about my statement that, "Yet the U.K. who has banned guns still has gun crime making the point that it is NOT the law abiding citizens that are committing these crimes yet they lose their freedom of owning a gun AND if a criminal wants a gun he can get one in the U.K."

Is not that pretty much all true ?
peterweg 37 | 2,320
30 Nov 2017 #1,194
Criminals (those who have been to jail and got contacts) can get guns. But they don't use them against law abiding citizens except in certain situation - like robbing a bank.This happens about once a decade. Gun crimes consist of armed criminals killing each other execution style.

Law abiding citizens in the UK don't consider it a 'freedom' to own a gun, unless its for hunting when, yes citizens are free to own a gun.

"still has gun crime making". Nope, what you consider gun crime DOES NOT EXIST in the UK or Poland, for that matter.

"a criminal wants a gun he can get one in the U.K.", Criminals don't want and don't need guns to commit crimes in the UK, most of them cannot afford to buy a gun and bullets.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
30 Nov 2017 #1,195
"still has gun crime making". Nope, what you consider gun crime DOES NOT EXIST in the UK or Poland, for that matter.

Just to emphasise the point, there is no where is the whole of the UK where you or I could go and be robbed at gun point, day or night.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
30 Nov 2017 #1,196
The U.K., France and Germany all have far lower murder rates than the US.

Yes but higher than Czechy, Norway and Switzerland where guns are legal. Again, it's how society handles guns. There's plenty of instances where guns are illegal yet there's tons of shootings and conversely where guns are legal yet have very few shootings, Whether guns are legal or illegal makes no difference on the amount of shootings. Mexico has extremely strict gun laws yet there's shootings nonstop. On the other hand, czechy, Canada, Norway, switerland, etc have high rates of gun ownership yet few shootings. A person intent on purchasing a gun whether he's a criminal and needs to protect himself or a crazy loon is going to find a way. Same with people who want to protect their home.

You think a country's leftist gun laws would prevent someone like myself from buying a gun to protect my family from an intruder? Hell no. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I'd much rather get arrested and serve some time for killing an intruder than be caught empty handed when someone breaks into my home, rapes my wife, and takes all my valuables or even kills a family member. All it does is make guns harder to obtain for law abiding citizens who want them for self defense or hunting or whatever. The hypocritical thing is the politicians pushing for stricter gun laws are themselves surrounded by guards with guns and will use them at any sign of danger.

Which is good because guns are dangerous and the vast majority of Poles don't want them on the street.

How do you know? Do you have a reliable sourcing proving your theory? You're wrong - Polish citizens simply don't care. We don't have the ridiculous levels of crime like other countries neither do we have the failed cultural enrichment programs so we don't have much of a need to have guns for self defense. The people that want to legally own a firearm can. They just have to do similar paperwork as they would for a FOID card in the US.

Actually, Poles tend to not have an issue with responsible gun ownership and most Poles in rural areas around guns regularly - usually shotguns and rifles though not so much handguns.

You can purchase bobby guns, stun gernades, mace, crossbows, etc in stores in PL also.

Poles actually don't care much for this argument whether guns should be legal or not because we have a safe country. We don't have nearly the same level of crime as the Islamic republic of france, germanistan, or the united caliphate. We don't have to worry about violent radical muslims like Western Europe.
gumishu 11 | 5,596
30 Nov 2017 #1,197
Criminals don't want and don't need guns to commit crimes in the UK, most of them cannot afford to buy a gun and bullets.

oh yes - compared to other countries in the world knife crime in the UK is rampant
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
30 Nov 2017 #1,198
Nope, what you consider gun crime DOES NOT EXIST in the UK

According to My source you are full of little green apples.

bearingarms.com/tom-k/2017/11/14/nearly-25-percent-increase-in-gun-crime-proves-impotence-of-uk-laws

So what is Your source besides your own personal opinion ?
peterweg 37 | 2,320
30 Nov 2017 #1,199
You think police in the UK are armed? If even the police don't need firearms or bullet proof vests to deal with criminals,maybe it really isn't an issue?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
30 Nov 2017 #1,200
No they just prefer to put on their pink glasses and pretend everything is okay. The London bridge attack, Manchester Arena bombing, Westminister attack (over 20 dead 100+ injured), the Pakistanis who abused a reported 1k+ children for over a decade, 500 homicides - all fake news

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show
theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/official-figures-show-biggest-rise-crime-in-a-decade

There has been a particular increase in the number of robberies at knife point to nearly 13,000 incidents

26% rise in the homicide rate to 723,

1.32 million violent crimeswere counted in 2014/2015

England and Wales, there were 618,000 recorded "violence against the person" crimeswhich caused an injury in 2015

Murders and killings in England and Wales have increased to their highest level for five years, figures show.

There were 574 murders and killings in total, 71 more than the previous year. (2015)..

oh but there's no problem at all... the police don't need guns even though there's far more violent crime than other EU nations where cops actually have a gun to protect themselves and society with. How do brits handle hostage situations? Do they just blow a whistle and expect the perp to have good manners and listen to them? What do they do if someone pulls a gun out on them - pull out their knife or baton lol?

Remember this the next time a muslim goes on a campaign of cultural enrichment and the cops have no way to shoot him or even just the tires to stop him.

Next time a gracious guest from the middle east decides to culturally enrich a British soldier by removing his head with a knife the cops won't even be able to shoot him.

an issue

UK has a higher murder rate than Poland as well and 3X the amount of crimes per 1000 people
nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Poland/United-Kingdom/Crime


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