The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?

My Polish pen pals have endless questions about gun ownership.
My above post helps explain the truth for the Polish people to make a honest choice to support
such legislation in Poland.
Once Poland understand that it is mostly Black on Black crime with guns in four cities of Ameruca it kind of destroys the image the liberals want to brainwash Poland with to have a negative idea about how dangerous guns are.

I better go check on my spoons, I hear they make people fat.

The graph below says it all really. The first three on the list have easy gun ownership. The more heavily guns are restricted, the lower the gun crime rate.

Hard to argue with the facts.

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Yes it is hard to argue the facts jon and yours are TOTALLY wrong.


Laughing my ass off.......tell that to the mayor of Chicago where guns are illegal yet between thirty to forty people a week get shot there.

You don't live here jon so you are clueless to your wishful thinking.
In Switzerland it is required by law that every family have a gun and trained how to use it.
The gun crime rate there is zero jon so explain your theory and charts to that fact.
You liberals drive me nuts with your bullock to brainwash the people of Poland.


jon google "Chicago shootings this week end".
Chicago has the tuffest gun laws in the United States.
9 dead 53 wounded over the week end.
Hard to argue the facts are right jon.
Blows your silly charts right out of the water one would say.
Why do you try to instill such liberal lies as the truth in Poland ?

WTF. If you look at the first chart, you'll see that the gun crime rate is high there.

The facts don't lie.

You however do.

Fortunately there is no desire within Poland to relax the current gun control laws. We do not want to be like America.

Yeah I wonder how firearm ownership would mix with the raging alcoholism spread throughout Poland, because you can bet that the drunks will be the first inline to apply for licenses. And with open borders policy, I am sure authorities in other countries will appreciate all the drunks driving through their cities with guns in their glove boxes.

You think armed civilians (without proper military training, just basic firearm training) carrying a bunch of pistols and rifles could stop invading armies?

Here is a current example for you. Most civilians in Syria today own firearms, usually assault rifles (like the proper AK series, not the watered down semi-auto version you can buy in America), and many have machine guns, heavy gauge sniper rifles and even RPG launchers. Up to the year 2004, EVERYONE older than 12 has had at least basic firearm training because it was in school curriculum, and every adult male has had 30 months of military training (compulsory service).

You think 100,000 men with light arms and basic firearm training can stop an army of 2500 soldiers equipped with 20 APC's, 10 tanks, 5 helicopters and 3 strike jets backing them up, and no regards to rules of engagement? If you think so, then I recommend you go and take a look at what most Syrian cities look like today. And don't ever say that would never happen here.

And troll in KSA, I wonder how Saudi authorities will react when you apply for a gun license. I suggest you go back to Lebanon where every schmuck owns a small arsenal. I wonder how well that protected them from being invaded and conquered several times over the past few decades.

@Polsyr: Yes, gun ownership + alcoholism = for sure population decline in Poland ;).

More seriously, Europe cannot be compared to the US. I'm sure that 99% of Europeans don't want guns allowed like it is the case in the US where every day in the news, we have crazy situations, a 3-year-old killing his sister because the father had left his gun on the coffee table or a teen-ager shooting everybody Inside a cinema because his girl friend had left him or kids receiving guns for their birthdays or at Xmas;). Examples go galore. The US were built by violence. In Europe, people are different and let's say more civilized. We expect the police to protect us and the police do. I personally want to walk safe in the stree, in shops and wherever I go without being scarred of getting killed or wounded by a nut carrying guns around.

The US are a violent country (I heard on tv 2 days ago when Obama visited a prison that inspite having 5% of the world's population, the US have 25% of the world's prison population, with a mich higher rate than Russia and China).

We don't want this in Europe and in Poland.

@Johnny: get informed! In Switzerland, they have to keep their guns locked in and the use is strictly controlled. This is so because Swiss men are to spend some time (I am not sure how much time) in the army each year. I have been numerous times to Switzerland, in particular Geneva and Lausanne and I have never seen people carrying guns there.

You live in the US and obviously don't know anything about Europe so don't impose us your American views! :)

Ermm.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington

In 1814.
I am not aware of any country invading the UK in a very long time, except 1066.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

Interesting that the result of the war was that armed civilians were no match for a professional army.

Johnny Reb is 200 years behind American thing, never mind the rest of the world.

Most of the Guns n God brigade wouldn't have the slightest clue about tactics or discipline. They're far too individualistic - and they would be nothing but good old cannon fodder for even a part time army.

In Poland, what do people need to carry guns for? You can buy stun guns in some places (are those really dodgy shops under Warszawa Centralna still there?) as well as perfectly legal pepper spray. You can even buy handguns that shoot gas rather than bullets - really, why does anyone need bullets if they want to harm someone?

You are of course free to wonder anywhere but it doesn't give you the right to dictate to people whether or not they can buy a gun. Why paranoid and fearful musings of an individual should be a reason to stop people from acquiring a weapon?


Who said that they would? Has anyone arguing here that point? No, it is you a bigoted fool arguing with yourself.
As for your Syrian example after few years of a civil war and foreign interventions, this country is anything but a good example for anything, but if you insists.

I remember a story when local Christians residents were driven from their home town by a one band or the other because they were unarmed and bandits (alleged freedom fighters) were, those Christians got their weapon from Syrian government and were fighting back.

Before the war in a comparison of the rate of private gun ownership in 178 countries,(rate of private owned firearms per 100 population) Syria ranked at no.112 whilePoland at no.148.Few other countries:

Belarus ranked at No. 79
Germany ranked at No. 15
France ranked at No. 12
the Czech Republic ranked at No. 42
Russia ranked at No. 68
Sweden ranked at No. 10
Ireland ranked at No. 98
the United States ranked at No. 1
Saudi Arabia ranked at No. 7
England & Wales ranked at No. 88
Scotland ranked at No. 93
Denmark ranked at No. 69
Finland ranked at No. 33
Lithuania ranked at No. 160
Switzerland ranked at No. 3
Yemen ranked at No. 2


"In Switzerland, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed, often subject to a valid license, depending on the type of firearm."

"Licensed firearm owners in Switzerland are permitted to possess any number of firearms"
"In Switzerland, the right to private gun ownership is not guaranteed by law" Hey they are still no. 3! :)

It does aamaze me how the liberal media brainwashes the uninformed.


Who made up the bias charts jon ? Where are the countries like Mexico or Jamaica or Brazil ?
Your point is where guns are outlawed the gun crime rate is the lowest which is a lie.
Did you google "Chicago shootings this week end" where they have the tuffest gun laws in the U.S. and gun crime is the highest ?

In Jamica where guns are totally outlawed with life in prison sentences for possession of one yet they
have one of the highest gun crime rates in the world with many innocent people getting shot because you don't bring a machete to a gun fight.

How are the people of Poland going to base their support on bias lies.


Here WE go again with "we". jon you have no more of a Polish citizenship then I so I guess I carry as much weight as you in that "we".


$10 and you can buy a conversion lever and switch it out in five minutes to full rock & roll.


I agree as the Europe does not protect the United States from invasion with their sons & daugters lives
like America does for Europe.
Three year old getting shot by a gun dies. And how many three year olds drown in the back yard swimming pools. Should we outlaw swimming pools too ? That's the liberal media bias silly.


Europe was built on violence too and let's say not quite as civilized as Americans.


Ah yes, 1814 the Brits got sent home again by the U.S. rag tags.
On Januarary 8, 1815 a large British army attacked New Orleans and was decimated by an inferior American force.
Poland needs to have unbias facts to support such legislation.
As long as Poland is being fed lies by the liberal media and forums they will never be able to progress with freedoms to enrich their culture.


Or the three year old who burned the house down killing the whole family because mommy left her matches & cigarettes on the coffee table......it wasn't the guns or matches fault.


Really, Google British's Lord Cornwallis and read how a bunch of rag tag American civilian militia sent
him home in his high socks back to Britain with a big black eye.


Yup and was met by thousands waving Confederate flags in his face.
This is my point, Poland only hears the part the bias liberal media wants them to hear and see.
How can Poland enrich their culture to support such legislation when they only hear one side of the issue ?


Who is "WE" ? Maybe you don't but my pen pals in Poland sure do.


Firstly the police don't have guns to protect YOU, they have guns to prorect THEMSELVES.
(Now there's a thought)
Please tell me the response time of the police when some drunken rapist breaks into your house in the middle of the night to rob you or rape your daughter in front of you and all you have is a broom to defend yourself with ? :-o

The Polish people should have a choice to support such legislation to be able to defend themselves in their private home with a gun.

If that Roof character hadn't had a gun on his person (mad as hell though he probably was), there would've been NO shooting and the world wouldn't be reading about another countless statistic! Same for Adam Lanza, the Columbine Gang and all the others.......

:-)

@Jonny: So you have never lived in Poland and as to your "Polish penpals", I suppose they are of your kind ;).

I have lived both in Europe and in the USA. Here, in Warsaw, I live alone and my flat is on the ground floor and I am not scarred. I even sleep with bedroom window opened. How many people in the States have bars on their windows? I happen to walk at night. In the USA there is not way we can do that. I have seen a lot of people in the US leaving lights on downstairs when sleeping upstairs. I've seen people in the USA advising women not to put their whole first names on their mail boxes and in the phone book and of course after dark, nobody walks in the US. I spent 8 years in the USA and I have personally known 2 persons who were killed (1 of them was found dead in a forest). This goes on and on and on ... IWhen taking the metro at night in NY, Philadelphia or Atlanta, I was scarred. In Europe, of course things happen but not as often and people are not obsessed by security because they know they are safe.

In the US there are a lot of nutcases and giving them guns only make things worse. How many times each year there are shooting in schools and in public places in the US? At very least 1 per week in the US and no more than 5 in all Europe per year

No matter what you want to believe! The USA are the most violent society in the world.

Well you should be.


I'm interested to know do you have bars/shutter type things. Most people in Warsaw have something of the kind. Otherwise there's no way I'd leave my window open, it's really asking for trouble.

@Atch: No, I don't have anything on my windows and nobody in neighborhood does (it's in Ochota). When I say I keep my windows opened, I only opened the top part so nobody could enter. Neighborhood is very quiet and safe (sort of a small village).

@Polska
"METRO" Philly, N.Y., Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, L.A. !
All cities of over a million people.
What do you expect ? Our small villages in the US are the same as in Poland. Come on girl.
The same in parts of Warsaw or London that you wouldn't walk the streets at night.
You may find guetto bars on the windows and doors in the hood in big cities like any place in the world especially in Black or Latino areas. (I know I am a bigot but facts are facts)

Not in the town I live in except on the banks there are bars on the windows. (You're funny)
Where I live I never lock my house, in fact the lock on my front door has been broken for years.
Mods, this is on thread as how can the people of Poland support such legislation when they only get one side of the story.
It's up to me to tell them that most of America is very safe and nothing like Polska is trying to portray.
The liberal news media portray's guns in the same manner.
How about the thirteen year old girl who was at home all by herself when two armed men broke in.
She happened to be well trained in skeet shooting so she took her shotgun and shot and killed one while the other managed to crawl out on the street before he died. HATS OFF GIRL !

You don't hear about the would be car jacker that got toasted because a woman had a loaded pistol
in her purse while he tried to pull her from her car and caught two rounds in his guts.
Two points here; one being that at least the good guy has a fighting chance with a gun to protect his family and property (self defense) and two,

the media only presents the bad things that happen with gun crime like you just did.
NEVER in my long life living in America have I ever been assaulted, had my home broken into nor has any of my family members. I live in a very safe area.

And yes, we all carry to keep things that way.


No it's not, go to Brazil, Mexico, Columbia, Jamaica ect. You'll see violence big time.
In the USA you are very safe amoung the 330 million of us.

Hopefully when you come to Poland you will understand from first hand experience why Poland doesn't instill the need for gun among its citizens.

Not in London, nor in most of Europe afaik. Ghetto's are a third world concept.


No you don't in Europe, because car jacking is unheard off.


Again, beyond rare. Why would criminals be armed, if they burgled a house? They only rob empty houses.

And if someone slaps the gun right out of your hand, what then?

Anyone in any way proficient in martial arts or with military training would know that it only takes around 5 degrees of movement of the gun to cause you to miss. You won't have a second chance.

And "what if" you forget to load your gun or "what if" but to answer your question, you stand with both hands on the gun holding it close to your belt buckle which would make it almost impossible to have it 'slapped' out of your hands before you could touch it off.

Anyone with self defense training would know better then to take on a gun with just bare hands.
The guy holding the gun would say, "why did you bring a knife to a gun fight".....KaBloom.
The noise alone would cause a perp to sh!t his pants.


If the house was empty what would there be to rob ?
No weeger, they rob the easiest place they can find.
No alarms, no dogs, no lights, no one at home, yadda yadda.
My point again, at least you would have a chance to save your life.
Training is the key to gun ownership.
The indoor range I go to teaches shooting under very low light almost dark, shooting under stress with strobe lights flashing with sirens blarring, flipping targets that say shoot don't shoot giving you three seconds to make up your mind to shoot or not shoot, zipping the target from three feet to thirty feet from you.

A gun is a tool to protect yourself with that takes a lot of practice to hit your target plus mental training
to shoot or not to shoot.
Once that bullet comes out of that barrel you can't put it back for a do over.
Gun ownership is a huge responsibility.
Anytime a gun is used in the commission of a crime YOU WILL go to prison or be shot dead.
That's how it works in America.

@Johnny: As I said, Europe is not the USA and vice versa. Europeans don't need and don't want guns ( only criminal may) and that's all. Comparing the USA and Europe does not make any sense.

PS: I know quite a few Americans (of Polish origin) who have chosen to settle in Poland in order to raise their kids in a peaceful environment.

And thats nothow it works in Europe, in Poland.

Right wing, Left wing, 'Liberal', Fascist .. nobody wants what America has.

Problem is, folks, is that the US simply hasn't kept up with the rest of humanity! "What was good enough for grandpa's good enough for me!" type mentality pervades the Western States especially, like a cancer, never cut out at its source!! Is protection important? Sure, it is! But the cure for crime isn't arming every potential nut job walking around. The cure for crime is ameliorating social conditions at home, school and work, thereby decreasing the need to commit violent crime.

In my opinion, only registered and RESPONSIBLE police officers in any town in the land, should be allowed to buy, carry and use handguns on a regular basis. Just being a "hunter", "gun-fancier" or the like, shouldn't be good enough:-)

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" is what the NRA has been babbling for generations. Yet, if the (unstable, trigger-happy) people didn't carry guns in the first place, more (unarmed, innocent) people wouldn't be killed!!

@Lyszko! Absolutely! A good way to reduce crime is to improve social conditions and to reduce inequalities.

And I know a lot of Poles who have come to America to settle that live in a very peaceful enviroment, have high paying jobs, own nice homes on a large piece of property (elbow room), drive new cars every two years, enjoy modern infrastructure, own guns to hunt with and have incase the time ever did come that they needed one to defend themselves against someone drunk out of their minds like the ones you describe that run all over Poland and basically live in an advanced culture that needs to import nothing, that offers anything their heart desires with opportunity for their children to have the nicer things in life including endless freedoms with owning a gun as one of them.

Poles would no doubt support any legislature that afforded them more freedoms including gun ownership.

They really, really, really see the gun issue differently.

Being raised in the US means seeing gun ownership as a constitutional right. That has become a deeply ingrained cultural thing. Poles did not grow up under the same influences. The average Pole sees gun ownership as "exotic" to say the least.

Another important aspect is, Polish law somewhat limits one's ability to use force for self defense as far as I know. For example, you can get into trouble with the law if you use force against an intruder inside your own home, unless you can prove your life was in clear and present danger. I invite someone more familiar with Polish criminal law to elaborate further on this.

There few Representatives voted in in the last election in Poland who are openly propagating a gun ownership for the Polish citizens.

edited


It's probably one of the things that got them elected as the Polish people aren't stupid as some of the ex pats that live in Poland who post on here as authority as what the Polish people want in gun ownership.

Oh, and before you do, "we told you so" about that too so when it does happen you can cry another pity party about being beneath contempt.

A neighbor told me a polish joke a few weeks back, It went wen't along the lines,,,

Guy asks his neighbor why he is watering his plant pot when there was nothing in it.

The reply was I'm not watering a plant i'm oiling my gun.

I think the inference was that polish people have guns but keep them hidden.

OK Johnny, as a true Pole you'll be able to find some stats on surveys conducted on whether Poles want guns or not, or media articles on Poles lobbying for guns. Having said that, you might find that difficult as Poles do not want guns. But you wouldn't know that, would you? What you know about Poland would fit on a grain of rice.

Dangerous times like nowadays, with the Islamic invasion, ask for extreme measures.

In Normal conditions i would not support gun ownership. But nowadays it is important to defend you, your wife and your kids.