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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


Elkslayer
19 Dec 2014 #901
Merged: Private firearm ownership in Poland?

Hello, my name is Jim and I am living in Moscow, Idaho and would like a little education from you folks. Did a little research online and found the gun ownership was possible, but one had to jump through a quite a few hoops in order to own one. Personally, I found this fascinating due to being an American. After the experiences of WWII, I thought firearm ownership would be quite high in Poland.

After WWII, Commander Menard USN asked a Japanese Admiral why didn't Japan invade the west coast of the US after Pearl Harbor and the destruction of the Pacific Fleet coupled with the lack of war preparation of the country. The Admiral responded, 'We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand."

Was firearm ownership higher before WWII? Are present attitudes just attributed to being "European" or left-over remnants of communism? Is hunting a "commoners" sport like it is here, or is it only reserved for the wealthy?

Thanks for your time,

Jim
cms 9 | 1,271
19 Dec 2014 #902
I think like most normal people we have no use for guns. We pay tax so the police can defend us, we buy meat from the supermarket and we dont shoot wild animals for fun very much.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #903
Why was the thread, The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? closed ?
After watching an unarmed European police officer get executed in cold blood because he didn't have a gun
to defend himself might change some minds on the issue.
By opening this thread the Polish people may be educated on what the liberal media manipulaton has done to
not only Poland but all of Europe.

Re-opened. But an off-topic discussion may be closed again soon if not related enough to Poland.
pigsy 7 | 305
9 Jan 2015 #904
After watching an unarmed European police officer get executed in cold blood because he didn't have a gun
to defend himself might change some minds on the issue.

Really,You meant that french cop?If so I cant believe he was unarmed and policing.I saw the video and thought he was injured.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
9 Jan 2015 #905
French cops are armed and always have been. To suggest that Poles would want guns if only they were educated by Americans is an insult.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #906
French cops are armed and always have been.

Well the one on the news that got his brains splattered all over the sidewalk didn't have one did he ?

To suggest that Poles would want guns if only they were educated by Americans is an insult.

You would be insulted by anyone that disagree's with you Roger.
whyikit 6 | 102
9 Jan 2015 #907
So the solution of gun crime is allow more guns on the streets..... I can see the logic here, no really I can.....
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
9 Jan 2015 #908
I am surprised a French cop would not have a gun, eurocops have always been armed AFAIK, unlike the British. And more and more of the met are now carrying guns.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #909
And more and more of the met are now carrying guns.

That is because they have figured out that it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad man with a gun.
I mean it sure looks like banning guns works doesn't it ?
whyikit 6 | 102
9 Jan 2015 #910
Yes it does on the whole.... There will always be incidents where someone gets a gun and does things like we have seen in France. However this happens on very rare occassions, compared with the US where gun crime/shootings happen on nearly a daily basis.... In my view your logic is flawed however I also understand that someone who lives in a country where gun ownership is normal would feel otherwise.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
9 Jan 2015 #911
I mean it sure looks like banning guns works doesn't it ?

well just because it is reasonable for police officers to be armed doesnt mean that every idiot should carry a gun!
~America is different, it is in your culture
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #912
compared with the US where gun crime/shootings happen on nearly a daily basis...

Yes, IN THREE MAJOR CITIES by mostly black people. No racism here as statisics speak for themselves.
Take away those three major cities and shootings are no higher then most other countries.

To suggest that Poles would want guns if only they were educated by Americans is an insult.

Let's turn that around Roger, to suggest what Poles want, since you are a Brit, is an insult.
Shaman
9 Jan 2015 #913
No I wouldn't. Never ever. Not in a million years.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
9 Jan 2015 #914
""He was on foot, and came nose to nose with the terrorists. He pulled out his weapon. It was his job, it was his duty," said Rocco Contento, a colleague who was a union representative at the central police station for Paris's 11th arrondissement."

The Guardian.

Let's turn that around Roger, to suggest what Poles want, since you are a Brit, is an insult.

I didn't suggest that I know what Poles want. Having said that, I know a darn sight more about how they feel than you do.
whyikit 6 | 102
9 Jan 2015 #915
Yes, IN THREE MAJOR CITIES by mostly black people. No racism here as statisics speak for themselves.

I will not get into racism here but you are suggesting that black people do not live in other countries who do not allow weapons. So the statistics actually do not prove your point, given the diverse nature of for instance European populations... Given the amount of shootings by accident or otherwise that happen even just last year in the US says it all IMHO.

Take away those three major cities and shootings are no higher then most other countries.

Not if you look at comparable countries it doesn't at all, for instance European and developed countires.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
9 Jan 2015 #916
Yes, IN THREE MAJOR CITIES by mostly black people

so what are you saying ? that this doesn't count?
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #917
Not if you look at comparable countries it doesn't at all, for instance European and developed countires.

Really, then let's go the other way then......how many people got shot say in Montana last year where guns are legal to own compared with how many people got shot in England where guns are illegal to own ?

I think if you did some research you may surprise yourself. (anyone want to google that ?)
Bad people will ALWAYS have access to guns and will kill good and bad people with them.
Good people should be able to defend themselves against these bad people with a gun as you would be a fool to take a knife to a gun fight or wait twenty minutes for the police to show up to protect you.

The police carry guns to protect themselves, not you or me.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
9 Jan 2015 #918
you cannot find crime statistics for 'England' because that does not exist as a political entity.
If you want to blind us with statistics and facts, do your own research!
it is not 'illegal' as such to own a gun in the UK, they are all packing in the country! Farmers, farmers' mums. lol
whyikit 6 | 102
9 Jan 2015 #919
shot say in Montana last year

Using Google...
salon.com/2014/07/04/10_states_where_guns_are_most_and_least_likely_to_kill_people_partner

Montana has the 5th highest rate for gun deaths..... Ok mostly for suicide however the point being this is attributed to gun ownership...

Please note I have no idea about the above website just the first link when searching..

However looking at the US as a whole I also found this article...

theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

The problem with allowing gun owenership it means "the bad people", as you put it are more likely to have guns and therefore.... Well I am sure you know where I am going with this....
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #920
so what are you saying ? that this doesn't count?

Sure it counts roz but European's liberal media manipulate the whole picture as America has all
these killins with guns. True BUT 90% of them happen in just three cities and most of those are done
by blacks on white or blacks on blacks. Paint the whole picture so people know it is unfair to say that
all of America is full of gun killers.

If you want to blind us with statistics and facts, do your own research!

You are the one in doubt, not me, so don't delegate your work to me.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
9 Jan 2015 #921
don't delegate your work to me.

well it was your claim, not mine!
Yes I realise that our news is skewed to an agenda of course.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #922
Well I am sure you know where I am going with this....

No but let's tell Poland about Chicago where gun ownership is illegal for example. (ha, google that)
They have 20 to 30 shootings EVERY WEEK END year around. Mostly with black people involved.
50 to 60 around the 4th of July holiday.
Does that statistic represent the rest of America fairly ? Hell no ! That is just one section of an American city.
But that is not what the Polish people hear by the liberal manipulated media as they paint a picture
of America that is very bias.
O.k., time to let others in on this as the market is about to open here and I have to get to work.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
9 Jan 2015 #923
oh do you flog cheap trinkets off a piece of black cloth?
LOL I used to do that.
Anyway I really do not think that we can compare US and Europe tbh
Roger5 1 | 1,458
9 Jan 2015 #924
I think that if I went to live in the USA, I'd think seriously about buying a firearm to keep at home. The country has so many guns, and it's so easy for anyone to get one, that it makes sense to have one there. In Europe in general, and Poland in particular, people simply don't need a gun because almost nobody else has one. I do not fear being robbed or burgled by a gunman, and neither does anyone else I know. It's just not a topic of debate or conversation here in Poland.
TheOther 5 | 3,758
9 Jan 2015 #925
Roger5: I think that if I went to live in the USA, I'd think seriously about buying a firearm to keep at home.

If you watch the American news channels or read the papers, you will get a wrong impression about how widespread crime really is in the US. They'll make you think it's everywhere, they'll make you paranoid (armed teachers in schools as an example), and they'll make you believe that you definitely need a gun to protect yourself against some invisible bad guy. Typical NRA bull. The reality looks different: unless you walk through no-go zones in certain cities after dark, the chance to get robbed, injured or killed is close to zero. People here need to chill, as crime rates in the US are actually decreasing.
pigsy 7 | 305
9 Jan 2015 #926
. People here need to chill, as crime rates in the US are actually decreasing.

And comparing to 300 mil plus 20 mil illegal population to 38 mil Polish population.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #927
Poland in particular, people simply don't need a gun because almost nobody else has one. I do not fear being robbed or burgled by a gunman

Good points Roger.
I have a permit to carry one almost anywhere I want. Do I ? NO
Example, if someone robbed me or burglerized my home I WOULD NOT take my gun out from under my jacket.
I have been trained that the ONLY time you pull one out on someone is when you are going to use it.
A few hundred dollars or road rage is no reason to kill someone. Take it, my insurance will cover it.
They are not to be brandished to threaten someone with. You pull it, use it.
Now if someone was raping my wife, hurting my child or threatening my life, different story.
Otherwise like you said Roger,

to keep at home

Strictly home defense where I have no other place to retreat.
The gang bangers do not have a license to carry or even own a gun however they all have one.
The liberal media doesn't promote the stories about the good guys who shoot the bad guys first.
I just want the Polish people to understand the whole picture and not just the one the liberal manipulating media paints.
Thank you for sharing Roger as I have never been to Poland (yet) so that is why it seems so strange to me.
pigsy 7 | 305
9 Jan 2015 #928
I have a permit to carry one almost anywhere I want. Do I ? NO

What state do you have the permit from? and you cannot carry concealed weapon in any other state other then the state that issued you a permit.I have a permit from nj but cannot carry it loaded on me but in a seperate case with seperate ammo in the back of my truck.I am not allowed to take it in any other state atleast legally.It can be only carried in person unloaded when im going to the range or target practising at an designated area.

Example, if someone robbed me or burglerized my home I WOULD NOT take my gun out from under my jacket.

Then why do you even own one?I would if someone comes to my house with intent to harm me.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
9 Jan 2015 #929
and you cannot carry concealed weapon in any other state other then the state that issued you a permit

Not true pigsy, most states honor my C.C.W. (Carry & Conceal Weapon) I can carry in almost all states legally.

I have a permit

You do not have a C.C.W. permit. All you have is a permit to own. Big difference.

.It can be only carried in person unloaded when im going to the range or target practising at an designated area

Yup and I can carry mine loaded just about anywhere I want to. In my truck, in public, under my jacket, not
you however, you would go to jail.
In fact in my state, like many, if it is not concealed you can carry it openly without a permit.

Then why do you even own one?

Because the second ammendment of the Constitution of the United States of America says that I can.
Now AGAIN.....Please quit hijacking these threads before they get closed again.
(Constructive criticism)
Go read the P.Forum rules pigsy about hijacking a thread.

Gun ownership is good for Poland in case invasions happen again - as they have so many times.

After what just happened in Ukraine there is no doubt that the Polish people would support such legislation of private gun ownership.
This is why no country has ever tried to set foot on American soil.
80 million people with guns that practice regularly.
If Poland knew the statistics about gun ownership in the U.S.A. they might better understand the propaganda the liberals try to feed them about the murder rate in America.

The United States is 3rd in Murders throughout the World.
But if you take out just 4 cities: Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans , the United States is 4th from the bottom, in the entire world, for Murders.

These 4 Cities also have the toughest Gun Control Laws in the U.S.
ALL 4 of these cities are controlled by Liberal Democrats.
It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data - right?
A law abiding gun owner doesn't murder people.
No doubt that the people of Poland would support such legislation for private gun ownership.

I think like most normal people we have no use for guns.

If you ever need the use of a gun and don't have one you will probably never need one again.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Jul 2015 #930
This is why no country has ever tried to set foot on American soil

That's an itneresting point. I've nevr heard it formulated that way. I have personally opposed private gun ownership esp. as regards combat weapons. I wonder if in the case of an attack by ISIS on US soil would gun-owners rise to form a rag-tag army to oppose them?

The focus must be on Poland


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