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IS "MURZYN" word RACIST?


kaprys 1 | 1,355    
21 Aug 2017  #541
@jon357
So you assume I would use the word 'murzyn' as an insult? Why?
If used with a perjorative adjective or in an offensive expression, it is racist.
Similarly, 'kobieta za kierownicą!' is sexist.
jon357 65 | 13,627    
21 Aug 2017  #542
but you did whine about it, without these gradations that you are now introducing.

Exactly. A messy argument, more about reaction than common sense or being positive[

So you assume

There you go again. It isn't only about what 'you' say, unless you have a private language. It's about every time a word is used to objectify.

Similarly, 'kobieta za kierownicą!' is sexist.

Indeed.
gumishu 11 | 4,850    
21 Aug 2017  #543
If used with a perjorative adjective or in an offensive expression, it is racist

no it isn't - the same Brit doesn't become racist when paired with the adjective bloody and imperialist

there are racists word in Polish to describe black people - czarnuch, bambus, asfalt - 'murzyn' is not racist and doesn't become one paired with pejorative adjectives
kaprys 1 | 1,355    
21 Aug 2017  #544
@rozumiemnic
I wrote: 'I think we are getting carried away with political correctness'. I didn't even think to explain it in detail. Your immediate response was calling me a nasty racist. It's not what I wrote, it's how YOU read it.

@jon
well, you easily agreed with rozumiemnic calling me a racist.

@gumishu
Sto lat za murzynami sounds racist to me.
gumishu 11 | 4,850    
21 Aug 2017  #545
Sto lat za murzynami sounds racist to me.

so it is racist to say blackAfrica was backward through most of the history - sure we should avoid inconvenient facts
Wulkan - | 3,280    
22 Aug 2017  #546
No reason to fetishise tales from a century ago

That's right, I think "Bambo" shoud be reaplaced by "Król i król" story.
jon357 65 | 13,627    
22 Aug 2017  #547
Or any one of thousands of other works of fiction aimed at that age group.
Ironside 47 | 9,251    
22 Aug 2017  #548
however it does still crop up in schools.

Because it is a very nice little verse that does no harm. By the way composed by a Jew. Are you not tad anti-Semitic here jon?

no, just a normal 21st century European

Not really, definitely not normal.

PC you poor poor little white boy,

hmm, should be in this case you poor little white girl.

To sum this thread up. This case crop up sometimes - it is a visible attempt of the neo-Marxists to impose their sick ideology on people. Why don't you take hike you nasty commie totalitarians?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
22 Aug 2017  #549
Not really, definitely not normal.

lol I can assure you I am fairly normal..Anyway its not even the word Murzyn I am arguing about , it's people who when they realise that it is no longer socially acceptable to go around calling people dumb Polacks/Paddies/Nig.gers, get all upset and start whining about 'PC gorn mad'.,as though that makes them smart or something.
gumishu 11 | 4,850    
22 Aug 2017  #550
it's people who when they realise that it is no longer socially acceptable to go around calling people dumb Polacks/Paddies/Nig.gers

have you met such people here? I haven't
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
22 Aug 2017  #551
oh not poor little Gummi again.. lol
yes I have met such people all over. I think its a valid point.
Iron if you want to start scoffing at my point, I suggest you go out and call the first people you meet Paddy or Mick. lol. Then when they complain, tell them they are just being silly, and its P C gorn mad. Let us know how it goes, wont you?
gumishu 11 | 4,850    
22 Aug 2017  #552
oh not poor little Gummi again.. lol

you like patronising people rozumiemnic, don't you
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
22 Aug 2017  #553
yes I do, thanks. well, only certain especially deserving people.
Ironside 47 | 9,251    
22 Aug 2017  #554
lol I can assure you I am fairly normal..

That is what they all say.

Anyway its not even the word Murzyn

Of course it is not about a word describing black Africans - which is a perfectly normal and non-offensive by itself. It is about neo-Marxist ideology that after taking over a culture, Arts and a large chunk of mass media in the western civilization. Now is trying to impose a political dictatorship.

PC is the way to impose their little red totalitarian paradise.
Many people are buying it. Like some were buying Soviet Union as the workers paradise. lol!
In fact it is another utopia and only looks nice because the process hasn't been completed. Once it is - they will introduce a thought-crime alongside a hate crime and punish you for disagreeing with the party line (one party). Charge will be a crime against the people.

it's people who when they realise that it is no longer socially acceptable to go around calling people dumb Polacks/Paddies/Nig.gers, get all upset and start whining about 'PC gorn mad'

Well, if for someone PC is about not calling other people derogatory names and they're fighting it by calling some a dick or a ****** - those people are simpleton and fools. Why concern yourself about human nature that cannot be changed?

People who are really against PC are against it not to call anyone derogatory name or to be nasty and condescending. It is about freedom of speech and it is about telling an unabashed truth. If factual statements based on facts, often empirically proven facts are being braded as racist or misogyny or offensive and banned.

That goes against everything that the western civilizations stand for. Everything that made us great.
If we are not free to question things all things in the name of some ideological dogma - what is the define between PC warriors and Islamists?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
22 Aug 2017  #555
Why concern yourself about human nature that cannot be changed?

perhaps you are right. We do seem to be surrounded by idiots. Idiot is a fine egalatarian insult by the way.
The other week my son called a local publican 'an Irish c.unt'... I told him off, while trying to stop laughing when I thought of the look on this idiot's face.

Thinking about it, 'Paddy c.nut or 'mick c.nut would have been worse wouldnt it? Why is that?
Ironside 47 | 9,251    
22 Aug 2017  #556
Thinking about it, 'Paddy c.nut or 'mick c.nut would have been worse wouldnt it? Why is that?@ rozumiemnic

Because it doesn't have the same ring to it. Sounds forced or premeditated while 'ethnicity' plus some vulgar expletive sound more naturally in a spur of the moment way.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
22 Aug 2017  #557
Sounds forced or premeditated

maybe, but it is how some people talk, All the effing time...
Anyway its just a discussion, of an interesting topic.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,101    
22 Aug 2017  #558
Not sure what this discussion is about. The word 'Murzyn' may have started to sound racist for some posh segments of society in Warsaw, but not that much in the so-called 'province' (according to the famous French definition, the 'province' is everything beyond Paris, so in Poland it would be everything beyond Warsaw). Everything must be seen in context, however. In everyday speech 'Murzyn' will not be considered racist by most people and they will use it freely as a neutral word. On Breakfast TV they would tend to avoid using this term, however, replacing it with other synonymes unless when they will be asking the black person John Godson if he has something against using it knowing that he has nothing. Thus we may say the word has just begun its travel from the registry of neutral words to the registry of 'suspicious' ones. That's the present state of affairs concerning the usage of this word in Poland, I think. It is highly unpredictable if it travels further in that direction since the Polish language has no good equivalent for replacing 'Murzyn' with another word as was the case with the word 'gej' replacing 'homoseksualista' or 'pedał' or ' pederasta'.

On the other hand, using the term 'Bambo' standing alone for describing a black person will be considered offensive by the majority Poles despite the fact that such a name is known to them from literature and was meant neutral there ("Murzynek Bambo"). 'Bambo' would be considered a nick used in bad faith when people have the word 'Murzyn' at their disposal. Besides, it would be phonetically too close to the word 'bambus' which word is evidently and beyond any doubt racist.

It is worth mentioning here the verse "Woman is the ***** of the World" by John Lennon perhaps. And here again, the context is not racist at all, but one which refers to the exploitation of one race by another.

How does that fit the 'political correctness' issue? It does partly in my view as some people have begun to perceive it as an uncomfortable one on the basis of PC perhaps, but also it fits the pattern of the natural evolution of words in the course of changing its meaning irrespectively of any PC. Didn't the word 'kobieta' or 'aktorka' (see the dramas of Gabriela Zapolska for the latter one) have a very offensive meaning once?
johnny reb 16 | 3,461    
22 Aug 2017  #559
It is about neo-Marxist ideology that after taking over a culture

That is exactly what it is and that is why Trump is so hated is because he refuses to play into the Liberal Left Marxist P.C. destruction of America.

Excellent post by the way Ironside.
If it is politically correct to be called a Caucasian then why is it not p.c. to be called a N egro ?
You is what you is.

On the other hand, using the term 'Bambo'

Exactly Z and that Bambo is geographically racist as someone where I live saying "porch m******".
Those terms become offensive fighting words and should only be used in private among the same race.
cms 9 | 1,290    
23 Aug 2017  #560
Well some people hate him for that, and others don't like him because he is vain, idle, greedy, foolish, goes out of his way to make enemies and has no empathy for any fellow beings - even those who were loyal to him, he is a man who in the space of six months fired all of his closest advisors.
NoToForeigners 6 | 986    
23 Aug 2017  #561
no, just a normal 21st century European..:) Why so snippy?

You're so damn dumb. Typical WESTERN European indeed.
Zonna    
16 Sep 2017  #562
it's not, I mean there's a childrens book that's nonstop calling the main character ''murzynek''. In Poland we don't really have a problem with people calling black people by their skin colour. You're black? Then you're refered to as black.

In English-speaking countries it's forbidden since they took part in slavery. Now they're trying to hide that by faking being so ani-racist. But Poland never did that, we never took any part to enslave Africans so there's no problem in saying the word. Easy.
jon357 65 | 13,627    
17 Sep 2017  #563
In Poland we don't really have a problem with

It isn't about that.

You're black? Then you're refered to as black.

For what reason?

we never took any part to enslave Africans

You think someone in Africa cares which European country is which? Most people here assume it's part of Russia...
Wulkan - | 3,280    
17 Sep 2017  #564
it's not

Of course it's not, In Poland we call a black person "murzyn" for generations and nothing is going to change it.

You think someone in Africa cares which European country is which? Most people here assume it's part of Russia

That doesn't make any difference, most Polish people have rough idea about African countries too.
cms 9 | 1,290    
17 Sep 2017  #565
I have the book and my kids like it - but at my youngest's preschool there is one mixed race kid, dad from Tanzania I think. I very much doubt that the teacher would read that book aloud to the class - if she did that would not be sensitive.

The reasons why it is still accepted are nothing to do with slavery - Sweden, Switzerland or Canada never had colonies but I doubt they would use such language and consider it normal. It is to do with Poland being more isolated during communism and taking time to catch up with normal discourse.

this afternoon I saw a Polish singer with her face painted black pretending to be Imany on prime time TV - that is more shocking to me than the Murzyn thing.
Wulkan - | 3,280    
17 Sep 2017  #566
I have the book and my kids like it

Which is normal and when I had this book when I was a child I liked it too.

this afternoon I saw a Polish singer with her face painted black pretending to be Imany on prime time TV - that is more shocking to me

It triggered you which is good, the more snow flakes like yourself get triggered by the reality the sooner they get red pilled.
Wulkan - | 3,280    
17 Sep 2017  #567
Sweden, Switzerland or Canada never had colonies but I doubt they would use such language

Of course they wouldn't because "murzyn" doesn't exist in their language, they have their own words that describe a black person that they use.
Ironside 47 | 9,251    
17 Sep 2017  #568
It is to do with Poland being more isolated during communism and taking time to catch up with normal discourse

Nah, Poland to some extend has been vaccinated against all commie viruses while you all got infected by the neo-Marxist virus.

if she did that would not be sensitive.

Why? If she is Polish she should be treated like all other children. If not maybe she doesn't belong in the class.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,875    
17 Sep 2017  #569
Murzyn isn't racist.. Its the most common way to describe a black person and doesn't carry a negative connotation. Even czarnuch would be more negative. If a pole wants to be racist against a black they'll call them a malpa, not a murzyn, czarny, etc.

Ill never forget the children story about murzynek bambino... The kids call him a friend but later in the story there's a line where it says bambino is scared to take a bath bc his blackness will wash off lol

Oh man if that book was used in a us kindergarten and some uber snowflake millennial found out... holy crap...

Also since were speaking about murzyny I've been noticing more tourists from west africa in wroclaw. They're still few of them esp when compared to tourists from Germany France China s Korea etc but still its nice to see tourism even from Africa.
Wulkan - | 3,280    
17 Sep 2017  #570
Murzyn isn't racist

It's not indeed.

Even czarnuch would be more negative.

"Czarnuch" is offensive, unlike "murzyn".



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