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IS "MURZYN" word RACIST?


Rich Mazur 4 | 3,362
15 Oct 2018 #631
By itself, no word is "racist" - those people who give the word bad energy may be racists though.

...like the race peddlers. To them, even the FBI statistics are racist. The FBI knows it and that is why they do their best to hide the Latino crimes by lumping their achievements with the white crimes.
Spike31 2 | 1,987
20 Oct 2018 #632
No, "Murzyn" is not racist. It is a neutral word describing a black person
kondzior 12 | 1,131
25 Aug 2019 #633
Speaking of "murzyn"(keneth zeigbo) here's a small funny song about one of the football players who played for Poland :D

youtu.be/yroAzBuG9SY
pawian 175 | 13,563
26 Aug 2019 #634
Murzyn isn`t racist. The same with Murzynka - black female.



pawian 175 | 13,563
4 Sep 2020 #635
Murzyn isn`t racist

Yet, various institutions and companies have been calling to drop it in everyday usage as contemptuous and burdened with too many negative conotations. One of those institutions is the Polish Language Committee

polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-08-13/rada-jezyka-polskiego-slowo-murzyn-jest-obrazliwe-nie-uzywajmy-go-publicznie/
Spike31 2 | 1,987
27 Sep 2020 #636
burdened with too many negative conotations

That's not the root of the problem.

Negative connotations come from social interactions and personal experiences.

If, for example, we would replace the word "Gypsy" with "Romani" and they will keep on going with their regular lifestyle ie. stealing, begging, and generally avoiding employment at all cost and living in filthy environments then the word Romani will pretty soon have same negative connotations as Gypsy.

Same with the word "Nigg3r". You can call them "Afro-American" all you want but as long as they live off the state handouts, engage in crime, and fill up prisons it will still have negative connotations.

PS: The word "Nigg3r" was the first and only ever censored word here on PFs
pawian 175 | 13,563
27 Sep 2020 #637
Negative connotations come from social interactions and personal experiences.

Yes, indeed.

Same with the word "Nigg3r"

What about Polack? This the term that our dissatisfied Pol Am friends use about native Poles in the forum. No wonder Polacks like you and Lenka Bell are so confused about American politics all the time.
Spike31 2 | 1,987
27 Sep 2020 #638
What about Polack?

Ah, a famous term coined by our "loving European [step]Brothers from Germany" and mostly perpetuated by them in the US :-)

I wouldn't be offended by that label. If I lived in the US I would even refer to myself as 'Pollack'. The goal here is not to remove or ban a label but to transform its meaning into a more attractive one so its more negative original meaning doesn't stick.

Irish people, for example, were hated and despised by the English throughout their history. And now Ireland is better off than England and ROI is synonymous with a great economic success. And I don't hear anyone calling them dumb or poor here in the UK.

Labels evolve and change. Something derogatory in the past may become neutral or positive in the future (and vice versa). And Poland and Poles have a solid brand based on our history and present talents. It just needs more advertising.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
27 Sep 2020 #639
This the term that our dissatisfied Pol Am friends use about native Poles in the forum

If they do, they do it wrong. It can only be applied to a Pole in the US.

I've never considered the word 'Murzyn' racist as opposed to the word 'czarnuch' which is racist. Btw, does anyone remember this litle verse?

Raz Murzyni na pustyni urządzili sobie bal.
Jeden trzymał, drugi dymał, a trzeciemu było żal.

cms neuf 1 | 1,800
28 Sep 2020 #640
Doesn't a large portion of Poland live off state handouts these days ? Could easily be 8-10 million people.

Certainly similar to the the number of African Americans who are welfare dependent
Spike31 2 | 1,987
28 Sep 2020 #641
@cms neuf

I wouldn't know since I never claimed any government aid or handout. I don't support this form of government "help" which is financed directly from taxpayers wallets since the government doesn't produce any value just spending our money, usually in the least efficient way.

That said there are differences between permanently unemployed black communities who are for generations solely dependant on the state wellfare checks in the US and child benefits paid to a regular working, tax paying families in Poland.

I stand on a position that instead of paying child benefits the income tax should be reduced by the same, or greater, amount for all of the citizens.

This would not only save money and reduce beaurocracy but it would also serve a great educational and social effect by reducing financial punishment (income tax) for productive work.

And also a reduce a number of unproductive baurocrats who would be reclaimed by the economy and would have to find some decent value producing jobs for a change.
mafketis 24 | 8,951
28 Sep 2020 #642
Without plodding through 22 pages of comments, does anyone know what black (or partially black) native speakers of Polish think about 'murzyn'?

Their input would be most important in this question.
Ironside 49 | 10,700
28 Sep 2020 #643
Their input would be most important in this question.

I respectfully (in your case not that respectfully) disagree.
mafketis 24 | 8,951
28 Sep 2020 #644
Of course you do. I expect that treating people with courtesy and dignity must seem very alien to you....
Ironside 49 | 10,700
28 Sep 2020 #645
@mafketis
No. I make an exception to the internet entitles which came to debate with an empty sack and head full of nonsense. People who hold dogma like believes that they cannot justify nor defend but resort instead to be belittle their opponents.

It is telling. Your response. You didn't not ask - why I disagree!?
mafketis 24 | 8,951
28 Sep 2020 #646
If you have a good reason you would have supplied it already.

I'm not bothered by Murzyn but I am interested in the opinion of native speakers that the word is applied to. That might change my mind (because my mind isn't ossified and incapable of change).
Ironside 49 | 10,700
28 Sep 2020 #647
If you have a good reason you would have supplied it already.

That is only your assumption.
Personally I don't like to spill everything just in a one go. My thoughts are precious. I would like it to share them with someone who would appreciate them or at the very least want to know them. You know swine/ pearls.

in the opinion of native speakers that the word is applied to.

Well it could be interesting or it could be lame either way that wouldn't change my mind as I'm not easily swayed by superficial and/or subjective.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
28 Sep 2020 #648
does anyone know what black (or partially black) native speakers of Polish think about 'murzyn'?

Their opinions appear from time to time in the social media and on various portals. I think those are divided. I read opinions of both types, but those blacks who don't think Murzyn isn't racist were very good speakers of Polish, whereas those who do seem to be sort of fairly recently arrived in Poland.

To label Murzyn a racist word is a recent trend within the so-called political correctness, so the younger generation would be more more inclined to follow such an attitude. In my view it is a qualifier which is being attached to this word because saying so seems to be en vogue. Despite clichés such as 'Murzyn zrobił swoje, Murzyn może odejść' the word did never have a racist connotation for my generation.If you refered to someone as Murzyn, you only meant a perfecty neutral fact that the person has a black skin and so looks very differently to the rest of us. Only when you described them as 'czarnuch'. it was obvious that you look on a black person with contempt.

It may have changed now due to the work being done by certain circles who question past habits and so have decided to attribute to the word a new meaning.

In my view it looks ridiculous as there still exist very positive connotations to the word in literature which is taught in schools, like for example, the poem "Murzynek Bambo".

Thus, in the present state of affairs, you may believe what you choose to believe.
mafketis 24 | 8,951
28 Sep 2020 #649
I mean native speakers, like Omenaah Mensah, Aleksancra Szwed, Krystian Legierski... also there was a tv reporter a couple of years ago but I'm blanking on her name...
Spike31 2 | 1,987
28 Sep 2020 #650
@mafketis Aleksandra Szwed, Omenaah Mensah or Krystian Legierski are not "murzyn" but "mulatto" just like Barack Obama who btw. was raised solely by his white mother of English descent.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
28 Sep 2020 #651
I mean native speakers, like Omenaah Mensah ...

If you expect them to give their testimony here, you may wait years if not ages. I told you I read some of such people's opinions on the matter and they differ in the same way as difer the native speakers whose skin is not as dark as theirs.

"mulatto" just like Barack Obama

Then why does Johnny Reb frequently refer to him as Obongo?
johnny reb 28 | 4,507
28 Sep 2020 #652
Because he portrays himself as being Black.
He has convinced the Black community that he is Black.
The media refers to him as Black.
So if that is what he wants to call himself Black, then I will call him obongo to mock his lie.
Those are the facts so now if that makes me a 'racist' by your accord, then pity you for not dealing with the truth.
mafketis 24 | 8,951
28 Sep 2020 #653
are not "murzyn" but "mulatto"

Well mulatto is no longer used in English (at least not American English) and I haven't heard 'mulat' (or 'mulatka') used frequently enough in Polish to consider it a current classification.

I consider that group of people to simply be Polish (since I tend to think of culture and language as more..... relevant than genetics).

Obama who btw. was raised solely by his white mother of English descent.

African Americans are best understood not so much as a purely racial group but as a cultural and linguistic minority. Not all who would be classified as Black belong to it (Obama, who was raised more by his grandparents than his mother, is now a member but he joined the group as a young adult). There have also always been a few non-Black people who are de facto members.

In America no one would say she was 'of English descent' but simply that she was a White American (ethnic background has not been a big issue in most of the country) where I grew up it was completely absent despite my school being filled with what I now recognize as German or Irish or Czech or Italian names.
pawian 175 | 13,563
29 Sep 2020 #654
I haven't heard 'mulat' (or 'mulatka') used frequently enough in Polish to consider it a current classification.

Coz now it is difficult to distinguish who is or isn`t one?? Or it doesn`t really matter anymore??
Spike31 2 | 1,987
5 Oct 2020 #655
Why don't you ask Black Lives Matter activists :-)
Joker 2 | 1,253
5 Oct 2020 #656
They dont care about Black people, not one word from them about all the black on black murders in Chicago. Its just a Trojan horse for marxism and looters.
mafketis 24 | 8,951
5 Oct 2020 #657
not one word from them about all the black on black murders in Chicago

there is actually, they just get no attention from the press or the race hustlers involved in BLM....

youtube.com/watch?v=r1zrrd4FCmo

Normal black people in the US (the majority) are being betrayed and sold down the river by elite-chosen race hustlers like Ta-Nehisi Coates and Ibram X. Kendi who are willing for huge amounts of young people to be violently killed....
Mr Grunwald 27 | 1,820
5 Oct 2020 #658
I think I've written about it before, but I'll write it again: The word "Murzyn" derives from the word "Moorish" which was a word used for jihadists with a darker skin... So the word doesn't mean or imply: "A human being of a different race which most often holds darker skin (think albinos can happen)" but, more like: "A human being driven by zealous behavior by the false religion of Islam who happens to be dark skinned"

So as an African-American for instance would be more enraged about being called a terrorist then actually talking about race when it comes to that word
jon357 63 | 15,378
5 Oct 2020 #659
"Moorish"

The origin is people from Spain and North-West Africa.

Not

jihadists

Mr Grunwald 27 | 1,820
5 Oct 2020 #660
@jon357
You can allways explain how these "moors" got themselves to Spain. As Poles didn't actively participate in crusades during the middle ages (at least not on a large scale) Polish accuracy and words from those times could certainly quite inaccurate. It still stands that originally the word "murzyn" was used for what I wrote earlier.

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