I believe they use the words "Sir" and "Ma'am"
In the US, we say "you".
In my entire life, I never said "Sir" or "Ma am".
Use of "Pan/Pani" in Poland vs Other Countries
In the US, we say "you".
In my entire life, I never said "Sir" or "Ma am".
I never said "Sir" or "Ma am".
It doesn't surprise me.
In what situation would I say "Sir" in the US?
Before I speak to a stranger, I make sure he is looking at me. Then: Hi. Can you tell me....
No need for "Sir".
Before I speak to a stranger, I make sure he is looking at me. Then: Hi. Can you tell me....
No need for "Sir".
Regarding the words "Pan" and "Pani" - I believe they use the words "Sir" and "Ma'am" in the UK all the time
A long time ago in very formal situations, like expensive shops. The police used to say Sir and Madam but not I think nowadays. At school, it was always Sir and Miss.
In expensive old-fashioned clothes shops, they used to use the "Sir/Madam is", "would Sir like" exactly as it is in Polish. This may be due to tailors and seamstresses many years ago being of the Jewish faith and from Poland.
I've only ever said it at school, and as an employee of an army somewhere when with my direct boss, a General (but only in formal situations) and when speaking with the country's President. As a civilian there's no obligation to however it seemed right at the time.
In PL, only Pan/Pani to older people that I don't know and don't enjoy being addressed like that.
My neighbour is always shocked when I address the local
Priest as "Ty". That won't change; in the region where I come from we traditionally address clergy as "friend" and that will have to do.
Related: https://polishforums.com/archives/2010-2019/language/poland-pan-people-address-57168/
"would Sir like"
Sounds very weird.... I could imagine "Would the gentleman like" "Would the lady like"... transference from Polish could be the origin.
In the US I'd never use 'madame' due to the other, less pleasant meaning of the word ('burdel mama' in Polish)
I would definitely use 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' as forms of address to people I don't know (maybe 'Miss' to younger women)
n I address the local Priest as "Ty". That won't change
Seems a little.... intrusive... though I tend to address priests (not that I speak with them often) as 'Pan' rather than 'Ksiądz'. I'm not entirely sure if that counts as a mistake or not...
Seems a little.... intrusive
If Thee and Thou are good enough for God, they're surely good enough for his staff.
"Pan"/"Pani" is merely a throwback to the earliest development of the Polish language.
What's confusing for foreigners learning Polish is simply that "Pan(i)" alone literally means
"Lord"/"Lady". It's really no more obsequious sounding than any number of European languages
such as French, German, Italian, Romanian among others, which employ a formal or distant
mode when addressing strangers, certainly authority figures.
What's confusing for foreigners learning Polish is simply that "Pan(i)" alone literally means
"Lord"/"Lady". It's really no more obsequious sounding than any number of European languages
such as French, German, Italian, Romanian among others, which employ a formal or distant
mode when addressing strangers, certainly authority figures.
simply that "Pan(i)" alone literally means "Lord"/"Lady".
I think no one who learns Polish as a foreign language processes them that way.... the range of usage is a lot wider than any single English equivalent and I think most non-native useres most of the time just think of them as 'pan' and 'pani'...
surely good enough for his staff
Believers use 'ty' with God because they want to stress their closeness to him. Using 'ty' with a priest is claiming a personal relationship with them that they may not (most probably don't) want.
The division between pan/pani and ty is partly about familiarity and partly about recognizing people's personal space (metaphorically). I remember a former boss explained he would never use 'ty' with a secretary because it would be akin to forcing a level of familiarity that neither wanted.
I address the local Priest as "Ty".
That's exactly what I did in 2017 in Radom.
Using 'ty' with a priest is claiming a personal relationship with them
Tough for them. It's hardwired into some of us. Where I'm from, clergy and laity traditionally address each other as "Friend" even if it's the first time of meeting.
I'll take that over the "pochwalony" stuff.
That's exactly what I did in
It's fine to do that. If they feel insulted they should maybe they should reflect on whether they serve or panować.
as "Ty"
I guess they have been very nice to you. I would laugh if you met some priests who do not give F replying - na T to tramwaj staje.
--
Tough for them. It's hardwired into some of us.
Does he reciprocate or use Pan? That would sound to listeners as if you think you're his boss....
Does he reciprocate or use Pan?
He uses my name and 2nd person singular.
The guy's a bit wary of speaking to me in the presence of others though, not least because we'd been saying "najzdrówko" in a particular bar in town for a few years before he came to that parish.
He uses my name and 2nd person singular.
So you successfully coerced him into assimilating to your standards.
The guy's a bit wary of speaking to me in the presence of others though
It would not help his standing to be heard calling some rando 'ty'... but as long as you're happy, who cares?
So you successfully coerced him into assimilating to your standards
We've always used the singular.
would not help his standing to be heard calling some rando
I suspect it's more about being cautious in certain ways.
but as long as you're happy, who cares?
It takes two to tango and he seems happy enough.
Life offers those rare moments that can define a relationship in a bad way for years...
One of those is when you meet your FIL. I blew it with mine and until he died in 1983, it was weird as hell. He would call me Ryszard but never told me how to call him.
I would never call him anything other than Marian. He never suggested so I never did.
When it was my turn to be "a FIL", I was brutal: Never call me "Sir", or anything like this. It's "Rich".
You should see the relief on their faces. I have two SILs.
Another reason why I like Americans more than Poles.
One of those is when you meet your FIL. I blew it with mine and until he died in 1983, it was weird as hell. He would call me Ryszard but never told me how to call him.
I would never call him anything other than Marian. He never suggested so I never did.
When it was my turn to be "a FIL", I was brutal: Never call me "Sir", or anything like this. It's "Rich".
You should see the relief on their faces. I have two SILs.
Another reason why I like Americans more than Poles.
Depends though, Maf!
Learning another language often means exploring stuff which native speakers might simply take for granted,
for example, how many native Anglophone know (or for that matter even care) that "Good bye!" derives from
"G-d be with you!"??
Same with Pan/pan and Pani/pani.
Learning another language often means exploring stuff which native speakers might simply take for granted,
for example, how many native Anglophone know (or for that matter even care) that "Good bye!" derives from
"G-d be with you!"??
Same with Pan/pan and Pani/pani.
"Good bye!" derives from "G-d be with you!"??
Fortunately, nobody gives a damn. That's how you learn quickly. Dissecting words is the last thing you want to do if you are normal and you have better things to do.
I have said many times that I don't like Polish language and customs. The worst Polish linguistic tumor is the one that starts with "niech".
As in:
Niech mamusia pojdzie do...Or: Czy mamusia moze pojsc do...
She is standing in front of you, Polish idiots...
To refer to your own mother, a woman who would die for you, through the third person - "ona" - is a result of some Polish mental disorder, not respect.
You're apparently still in your teen rebellion phase, Rich!
Why not just put a sock on it, dude, this ethnocentrism is
growing tiresome.
Why not just put a sock on it, dude, this ethnocentrism is
growing tiresome.
Learning another language often means exploring stuff which native speakers might simply take for granted
What usually happens.... learner learns pan and pani as both Mr and Mrs/Ms/Miss and a polite way of saying 'you' to a single person. At some point they also realize something about the etymology and then they never think about it again.
Probably.
and a polite way of saying 'you' to a single person
What is impolite in this example:
Czy ty lubisz flaki?
Not impolite, albeit familiar in any event! Most languages throughout the
world with which I'm familiar have a formal or distant vs. informal or intimate
form of address.
Modern Hebrew is a notable exception.
world with which I'm familiar have a formal or distant vs. informal or intimate
form of address.
Modern Hebrew is a notable exception.
albeit familiar in any event!
In Polish, it's intrusive, like slapping the back of someone you don't know and getting in their face "Hey buddy! Do you like tripe??????"
Like someone raised in a barn.
"Hey buddy!
I didn't include Hey, buddy. I asked:
Czy ty lubisz flaki?
Or, better yet:
Czy lubisz flaki?
Or the best:
Lubisz flaki?
I like simple.
Lubisz flaki?
I like simple
I like simple
flaczki?
even simpler.
I can beat that...Use grunt language or your index finger while holding a picture...
flaki.jpg
Rich, Maf's right about that! He usually is so take a hint:-)
Only God and me are right.
Take a hint...
Take a hint...
Never let (remedial) education get in the way of your learningLOL