The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Language  % width posts: 183

Mixed English Grammar Thread


strzyga 2 | 993
11 Jun 2011 #31
'amn't I?. It just rolls off the tongue better and sounds less pompous than the other 2 options.

I must say that's news for me, it wouldn't ever occur to me to say amn't I . Is it about the same level of (in)formality as ain't I?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Jun 2011 #32
Shawny, as I said, it's a running commentary. Like when you start with sth and want to see it through to its logical conclusion. The present simple is often used to write film reviews and continuous threads. Resident Poles, take heed!!! By using a simple tense like the present simple, there is still some aspect of continuity but it depends on exact moments. Present simple signifies routine and habitual actions. Don't feel instantly inclined to use a continuous tense then. Creates, Shawny, neatly leads on to the next point. Created is when you state sth (sorry again) as a matter of historical fact but nothing necessarily stems from this, thus it is not the best tense to use in a narrative where a certain curve is being followed.

Strzyga, you know, it's all about set and setting as Timothy Leary said (in a different context). Amn't I? is perfectly acceptable, I'd say.
Maaarysia
11 Jun 2011 #33
MANY MONEY or MUCH MONEY

Ok so now the question which was missed out in the other thread: many money or much money?
In gramatical sense money are uncoutable but in logical sense... well they are money! ;) I suppose it's much money but I want to be sure.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Jun 2011 #34
Much money or many banknotes as banknotes are countable :) :)
Lyzko
11 Jun 2011 #35
Dialect is dialect, standard is standard!! Certainly it's possible to be wrong in English; just read many of your PF posts-:))

"Ain't" was often used by the British upper classes as well, aware of the incorrectness of it.
strzyga 2 | 993
11 Jun 2011 #36
Strzyga, you know, it's all about set and setting as Timothy Leary said (in a different context). Amn't I? is perfectly acceptable, I'd say.

I mean I just haven't been familiar with this form, never heard/seen it before.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Jun 2011 #37
That's ok! Life is about contact and exposure, amongst other things :)
teflcat 5 | 1,032
11 Jun 2011 #38
Amn't I? is perfectly acceptable, I'd say.

Seanus, my dear old Irish mother was from the County Longford and I never heard her say amn't I. She was a bit of a snob, it's true, but you must surely agree that it's a dialect feature of mainly rural Ireland. I've never heard anyone in mainland Britain say it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Jun 2011 #39
Well, I've heard it often enough in Scotland and, I'm led to believe, it's quite popular in parts of Wales too. It works! :)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
11 Jun 2011 #40
welcome back Sean US :-)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Jun 2011 #41
Thanks :) :)

So, mixed grammar? How about some mixed conditionals from resident Poles?
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
11 Jun 2011 #42
How about some mixed conditionals from resident Poles?

What's that?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Jun 2011 #43
Like a mix of 2,3 or 3,2 conditionals :)
Maaarysia
11 Jun 2011 #44
MIXED CONDITIONAL

What's that?

mix of 3rd and 2nd conditional ;)

Like a mix of 2,3 or 3,2 conditionals :)

Oh you were faster ;)

3+2
If I had gone to the UK in 2005 I would be rich now :)

2+3
If I had so much money as you have I had been running a company already for several years.

Is that ok?

PS to make clear for everyone what grammar topic we are currently talking about I propose to write all capital letters and bold. It will prevent from repeating the same quetions
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
11 Jun 2011 #45
mix of 3rd and 2nd conditional ;)

And that is?!

If you ask me what the fifth interval is, I will tell you ;-)
Maaarysia
11 Jun 2011 #46
And that is?!

look above.

Conditionale to zdania z if. Masz 0,1,2,3 oraz mix 2 i 3 do wyboru.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
11 Jun 2011 #47
I do not understand what's 2nd and what is 3rd conditional and the example does not explain that.

Conditionale to zdania z if. Masz 0,1,2,3 oraz mix 2 i 3 do wyboru.

Where are they? 0, 1, 2, 3?
Maaarysia
11 Jun 2011 #48
I do not understand what's 2nd and what is 3rd conditional and the example does not explain that.

In Polish they're called zdania warunkowe. It's weid you don't know those terms as they are basic grammar subjects
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
11 Jun 2011 #49
you may not be familiar with the terms but for example "second conditional" is like
"If I were Queen I would chop off your head"
and "third conditional" is
"If I hadn't eaten so much I wouldn't have got so fat"
While it's more natural to talk in a combination of these....the "mixed conditional"
Hope this helps and the muppets in the gallery don't start.
Lyzko
11 Jun 2011 #50
Antku! Byłbym obywatelem polskim, mógłbym właścicielem swojego domu we Warszawie. = If I were a Polish citizen, I could own a house in Warsaw.

This is what we call 'conditional' in English, from the word 'condition' (warunek), such as 'under these conditions (pod tymi warunkami).
Maaarysia
11 Jun 2011 #51
Where are they? 0, 1, 2, 3?

It will be easier if you check it in some site or encyclopedia. Too much and too basic to expain it here.

0 condional

When Mary comes she leaves such a mess.
If water is cold you may get ill easly.

1st conditional

If you ask me what the fifth interval is, I will tell you ;-)

2nd conditional

If I were famous I would be so happy

3rd conditional

If only I had known that Peter weren't gay I would have married him.

3+2 conditional
If only I hadn't invest so much money in funds I wouldn't be broke now

Is that correct, Seanus? :)
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
11 Jun 2011 #52
In Polish they're called zdania warunkowe. It's weid you don't know those terms as they are basic grammar subjects

You do not need to know the grammar to speak given language, and I had English textbook in my hands over 25 years ago. Yes, I'm using dictionaries.

Lyzko, I know what a conditional is but I do not get why 0th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd. ;-)

Rozumiemnic, thank you!

What grammar construction is this?
Normally I wouldn't have minded but I'm allergic to sulfuric acid.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
11 Jun 2011 #53
I do not understand what's 2nd and what is 3rd conditional and the example does not explain that.

second conditional:

wish/hope/not likely: if i found 1,000,000 i would buy a new car.

third contitional:

something that can't be changed:

i would have gone to the party (yesterday) ....... if you had asked me.

third conditional is often used when folks are angry:

i would have fucking gone to the party, if you had fucking told me about it.
Lyzko
11 Jun 2011 #54
First = 'unreal' conditional

Second = setting up a situation "If-clause"
strzyga 2 | 993
11 Jun 2011 #55
I do not understand what's 2nd and what is 3rd conditional and the example does not explain that.

conditionale to gdybanie

1. jeśli coś tam, to coś tam - dotyczy przyszłości - if it rains, we'll stay at home
2. gdyby babcia miała kółka, to by był rower - alternatywna teraźniejszość - if I were a Rockefeller I would buy myself a Greek island

3. placz za rozlanym mlekiem - co by było, gdyby było inaczej niż było - if you hadn't irritated the mods, you wouldn't have been banned yesterday

+ combinations of the above
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
11 Jun 2011 #56
Thank you all, and special thanks to Strzyga!
Maaarysia
11 Jun 2011 #57
I know what a conditional is but I do not get why 0th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd. ;-)

Zero conditional - always truthful rights, events which always happen.
First conditional - hypothetical sytuations which are probable
Second - hypothetical sytuations which are unprobable (but only conected with present or future events)
Third - hypothetical sytuations which are absolutely unprobable because the time when they could happened passed away (in other words it refers to past situations; it corresponds with Polish gdybym był wtedy, often means regrets)

Strzyga's explaination is better :)
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
11 Jun 2011 #58
I feel like M. Jourdain ;-)
So good I have never had any problems with conditionals ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Jun 2011 #59
Maaarysia, almost. 'If only I hadn't invested' is correct but I think you just made a typo.

Wrocław surprised me above. Often used when people are angry? Interesting! I'd never thought of it in that way. OK, grammar. The second conditional is called the present subjunctive conditional. That tells only one part of the story:

If I drank that vodka in front of me now (let's say I'm already bleezin/blootered (Doric)/drunk), I would vomit (I'd vomit). This is based on a lack of intention and is a supposition. It's a hypothetical scenario, thus there is a big if (IF). It means that I'm not going to drink the vodka but IF I did then I'd be sick.

The third conditional is known as the past subjunctive conditional. Let's take the same idea. If I had drunk that vodka 2 nights ago, I would have vomited. Here, I didn't drink the vodka in fact but if I had, I would have been sick. It's an imaginary look at what could have happened and if it had, what would have been the result.

The mixed conditionals above are well done. It's past action or inaction (3) and present result (2). Or vice versa.
Lyzko
11 Jun 2011 #60
Conditionals are far more common in daily Polish than in English. Most Brits say "If I was..." vs. "If I were.." without thinking. Americans tend to say "If I were..", but frequently ignore the conditonal in other situations-:))


Home / Language / Mixed English Grammar Thread
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.