Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D

Yep, "the the" what mr. Perfect English?

I should probably be careful as to what I say here, but I've noticed that the difference between a reasonable Polish teacher of English and a great Polish teacher of English is how much effort they put into learning articles properly. I wish I could go into more details... perhaps one day.

Having said that, it only makes me annoyed when teachers of English make mistakes with it. For normal people, I don't even notice or care.

As for Polish, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of case endings are quite instinctive after a while.

And Lzyko, I suggest that part of the reason they get on at you is because of your attitude towards their mistakes. They make mistakes in English - but really, who cares?

Oh, I don't pay much mind to it, Delph! I figure those who are serious will improve, those who aren't won't, that's all:-) Thanks just the same. I'm actually used to it, sorta comes with the territory.

It's easy to jump on stupid typos, though when I make a typo, the difference is I KNOW it's a typo and I don't rationalize.

Being honest though Lyzko, I've lost count of the times when you have posted about how badly Polish people in general speak English, and how you end up talking to them in their native language because their English is so bad.

Are you really that surprised then if after reading stuff like that, Poles then point out that your Polish isn't exactly perfect either?
How important is this anyway unless someone is specifically asking for a translation or language help?
Point is as learners, we all make mistakes. If those mistakes are noted and learned from, then we all improve. Not so bad is it? ;)


I don't think it's that at all. The two languages are just so different.
I think that generally Poles make less important grammatical mistakes in English than the English speakers do with Polish grammar, simply because English grammar is less complicated.

That said, lots of minor mistakes in English shows that it is a difficult language to speak well.

well the average Polish person's English is not very good Chemikiem and people really often overestimate their language abilities in English - what I believe is Lyzko falls into a trap of switching to Polish when he sees that communication in English is somehow not fluent or hampered but he doesn't notice that him trying to speak Polish is equally awkward to Polish ears as Poles trying to communicate in English with him (I think he overestimates his Polish proficiency as well) - having said that English is a strange beast - it seems easy because you can easily start to communicate in it but to speak it well demands a lot of learning and excercise - I for once haven't mastered English so far - perhaps I am on advanced level (I hold the CAE) but I'm very far from proficiency

The general rule on learning various languages, the easier the first year is the harder the fifth year is and the harder the first year is the easier the fifth year is.

English is easy to start and learners can become 'communicative' relatively quickly. But mastery by learners is very, very rare.

Polish is super difficult to start and it takes learners longer to become communicative but the longer the learner sticks with it the better they get.

This is related to the fossilization trap - just because somebody understands something you said doesn't mean it's right. English learners are more likely to to fall into this and think they are very fluent will throwing off all kinds of mistakes while Polish is less forgiving and so a mistake that worked out once might lead to misunderstanding later and so longtime learners are more likely to keep getting better.

and well I am always open for native speakers to correct me - but most here don't bother to :P

To even say that you are better than other person in something is already extremely low and rude, your low class is evident, did your parents teach you to be that low or did you learn this behaviour?

In reference to the topic, I read other posts and it could be Polish may not be even in the top 5 of the hardest languages.

I don't think you are right - a native speaker has every right to say their English is better than that of a foreing learner - and no Lyzko is not a patronising individual - he is somewhat snobbish about langauge but I thinks this more or less comes naturally with greater elloquence

I'm glad to hear you say that, gumishu! Many, many thanks.

But, yes, BACK TO POLISH FINALLY, for me, the toughest still remains the counting:-) I know the rules, but it's the application which continues to dog me.

On the other hand, although many refuse to admit it, English articles, prepositions, and above all tenses, are often problem areas for Poles.

It seems, we have to think differently, whether we're "on" a trip or "IN a trip" (w podróże) etc...

which means which Lyzko - is 'in a trip' w podróży? what does 'on a trip' mean if so?

ON a trip = to be travelling, auf Reise sein,

W podróżY!!!

But of course, yet another silly typo. "Podróż" follows that irregular feminine noun declension pattern in the accusative singular. As a foreigner, I really ought to have known better.

Sooooorrrry, folks:-)LOL

If you think that then indeed your reading ability must be somewhat impaired or as you have said your English is not very good.

You are trying very hard to sound intellectual, you have done it a lot but the way you do it comes across as an attempt by someone who has nothing to show for in real life so he tries very hard here where he can show off to mostly uneducated people to cover up his shortcomings in other areas. I sense you would like to able to write in Polish the way average Polish writes, at least, so that you can tower above others here. You trying to make up for the shortcomings in Polish language by stating how good your Polish is in comparison to the English of non-English speakers. My advice is that you compare yourself among most of the Polish people and you will see that their English, German, Spanish or Italian is much better than your Polish, it is easy to do that on PF but try real world. Your showing off is only tetament to your desire to appear better than others in something but you are getting frustrated because you have been criticised for your Polish by Polish people whom you think should be more stupid than you and so you can accept that you are worse in something than they are. You need a psychologist to first tell you to stop dreaming that you have to better than others, you are only lowering yourself further. Those who think they are better than others are actually the ones who are inadequate.

Yes you are right. I'm amazed at how well some of my friends have quickly picked up English, but to communicate even simply in Polish takes much more time. Reading and writing in Polish is way easier than having a conversation.


I might be wrong, but I think Lyzko was referring to another common aspect of grammar which Poles often get wrong, the use of prepositions, as he mentioned that prior to this sentence. For example, 'I'll see you in Sunday instead of on Sunday". Hence the "on" a trip or " in " a trip.

@Ironside, you're scarcely the one here to judge my English or that of any other native speaker on PF! Am happy to see though that you and Wulkan post frequently. It's a good way to keep up your English skills much as I keep up my Polish:-) Don't be afraid of correction however. We all learn from our mistakes (..myself included).

You're exactly right, Chemnikiem! I was alluding to differing preposition use between Polish and English. Incidentally, I posted in error that "w podróży" stands in the Accusative instead of the Locative. My oversight.

@Poganin,
As you've never seen examples of my German, moreover, are not an English native speaker, I'd refrain from pop-psych appraisals in which you have no first-hand knowledge. Sorry to be so blunt!

I'm judging your attitude to others and level of your dickheadness. Is that even a word Lyzko, please advice me here.

sorry Ironside but with such personal attacks it's you who proves to be more of a dickhead

I will gladly adviSe you that the word is "thickheadedness":-) Were you perhaps confusing "dick" with German "Dickschaedligkeit" aka "having a thick skull", being chronically stubborn?

Thanks, gummi!

Even to this day, I have to weigh what the noun stem is before I attempt normal paragraphs! What should take me seconds, can take anywhere from five to ten minutes:-)

Look mishu mind your own business if you have feelings for Lyzko that is you problem. I know your opinion and I don't care much for it.


Thank you Lyzko that is very kind of you. I have been looking for a word that would combine many 'qualities' and the word thickheadedness doesn't give a justice to what I have in mind.

How would you call someone with an abhorrent attitude combined with inferiority complex, stubbornness and lack of manners? Furthermore that someone is convinced that he is a very well mannered and helpful soul with good intensions.

Calling that someone a certain part of the human anatomy seems to be convening my intent quite well.
However I'm always willing to learn and if you could come up with an appropriate equivalent I'm sure it would came handy.

"What would you call someone with an abhorrent attitude, combined with [AN] inferiority complex...?"

In the US, we'd call them a Republican:-)
lol

I prefer people with inferiority complex than stuck up individuals with superiority (dickheadness) complex, but it is only your complex. I read your comments and you come across as a weak man (argument wise) and slightly frustrated person at times, trying to prove forcefully your correctness, you are in fact doing the opposite, you are proving how wrong you are the more you dwell on a topic. Your English is erroneous at times, your punctuation for example has some shortcomings, go back and inspect your mistakes and then come back and speak of your glory, but it is funny how you gloat here while English is your native language, am I not right? Do I prance around telling English speakers here how good my Polish is (despite how easy or difficult the language may be)? I would have to be insane. Do you not need a psychologist perhaps?

A quick-witted response which shows us that Lyzko is neither a dickheaded twat nor a Republican...


It's been discussed already and despite that you've made this deplorable mistake - dickheadEDness, please, and not 'dickheadness'. If you go around Łódź one day, repeating 'dickheadedness' rather than 'dickheadness' aloud, you'll soon earn the reputation of being truly perfect in English in that ancient industrial city of Poland.


His English is not erroneous, it is sometimes a 18th century English. Moderator Pam (together with Harry) once ridiculed such a language of his on the PF. I disagreed and replied in a post that followed that everyone was entitled to use English of whatever century on the PF as this isn't forbidden in the forum rules. Moderator Pam, however, disagreed with this opinion and as a result moved my post to the off-topic bin (she left hers saying otherwise). The freedom of speech was very much abused then on the PF through such a disgusting act of censorship.

Thanks, Ziemowit:-)

Poganin is doubtless frustrated that my English is better than his.

@Poganin, not ALL Poles can be another Joseph Conrad. Sorry to disappoint youLOL

In that you are mistaken my friend I can judge your English.


See if you would have contented yourself with correcting some grammatical errors even in my posts I wouldn't mind it at all. You would go around in your merry way wailing on a sorry state of contemporary educational standards unmolested.

However you are a person who is displaying less than agreeable traits.
You are judgmental, moody, contradictory, domineering and patronizing. It is irrefutable fact that you are behaving like a dick at times, in other words you were behaving badly. Nothing more and nothing less. Behave, show some manners and we can have a proper debate as adults should.


A witted response would be a more appropriate phrase here. However you are complaining Lyzko so he'll not pull you on that one. If you on the other hand would've scold him it would irrevocability put you in his black book and he would've point that out.


Everything has its time and place. This forum is mainly dedicated to debate about things connected with Poland or to the exchange of information about Poland. Hence English on this forum should be clear, informative and to the point. Other than that one needs to remember that people are writing here in the way they talk. English of this forum is more oft than not a conversation in a form of a written post.

His English is overtly stylized. He reminds me of a craftsman who know his trade well but he is not an artisan he claims to be. Whose works are being testimony to the fact that coping masterpieces cannot turn a copycat into a master by any stretch of imagination.

It all would be charming and harmless if at the same time he wouldn't usurping himself position of a judge of the English language usage and standards, perhaps he misses his job as a lecturer.


You and him are very much alike you both like to tell people what to do and who to do it. Perhaps you are a lecturer too. I have an advice for you a one you can take or disregard - don't bring your work home.

By the way - your English is stiff, measured and proper - not a refreshing read but clear and commutative.

Despite your English being good Ziemowit, I think you may have a problem with your comprehension. Either that or you are prone to exaggeration ;)
I have not and would not ridicule anyone's language skills on this forum.
What I have said in the past and would still stand by now regarding Lyzko's English, is that it is rather formal and not how most people would speak in an everyday conversation.

That is very far from ' ridiculing ' the way he writes.
But I do find your periodic attempts to nitpick at me rather amusing, if not a little sad.
Maybe one day you will grow up a bit and get over my moving your posts to the bin ;)
Love and peace sweetie :-)


That would be because he apparently learned it from the BBC.

Anyway, despite posters' mistakes, I'm impressed with the level of English a lot of the long term non-native speakers here have.
Some of the discussions they've been involved in require a high level of understanding of the language.
If only I could communicate as well in Polish.......:-(

Yes you would. You once got very cross with me for correcting your spelling (which I never normally do to other adults but you were being patronising and deserved it).

You make loads of errors in spelling and grammar which sometimes render your own posts less than comprehensible. The meaning is there only through the context, for example:


You mean communicative.


Completely meaningless.


Meaningless but I can gather from the context that you meant to say 'complimenting'.


Meaningless but no doubt a typo.

Now that's just a sample of your errors in the above post, there are more. One of the features of your own English Ironside is that your command of syntax and grammar deserts you big-time when you get over-excited. I've noticed that many times. Calm down or you'll have a stroke before you're fifty. And one of the nice things about Ziemowit is that he continues to want to learn and improve his English skills, it's one of the reasons he visits this forum. He's humble enough to know that he can still learn something.

I have to finish by correcting a mistake you make all the time because it's driving me absolutely nuts: stop saying 'end off' as a conclusion to posts. It's 'end of' as in 'end of the story'.

And yes my own Polish is cringe-inducing although people are very kind and tell me 'ale bardzo ładne Pani mowi po Polsku'. I don't though! 'Endings, endings, endings' my husband sighs. 'Your endings must be clear'.

Are you a native English speaker? If so then you have no right to correct non-English speakers here unless your Polish is perfect. Is your Polish perfect? Let me examine it.

I am.


I see you're another speed reader. Here's what I said about my Polish skills in that post:


Why oh why don't people pay attention when they're reading??

Poganin, haven't you heard Atch saying:


?
So, there is no need to examine her Polish. End of !!! (Or is it: End off !?)