Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


I don't know the complete breadth of his views but that statement wasn't extreme. He made a valid point. If anything, evangelical and non-denominational Prod, Southern Baptists, Pentecostalists etc. are the worst in terms of extreme views, absolute nut-jobs and their kind of puritanical madness is so pervasive in parts of the USA, that it has definitely tainted Catholicism in America.

However, there are extreme nut-job Catholics too who follow ideas from the turn of the 19th/20th century and ignore all reforms since then. And there are a handful of crazies who'd like to start another Crusade. But they are a truly tiny minority, whereas the nutter Protestant evangelicals are a very large group within society.

Life / Using less American stuff in Poland [80]


In Ireland, the High Court ruled that the 'bread' in Subway sandwiches cannot be classified as bread due to their sugar content. They have five times the sugar limit allowed in Ireland for bread!

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


No, you couldn't because only goodness can exist there.

Well, there's always Purgatory :) I've heard it's not that bad, according to Cardinal Newman anyway. Of course, that would only be temporary billets and you would have to move on eventually, but I'm sure you can stretch it out for a while.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


You contribution, far from unwanted, is most welcome.

The inherited belief you refer to of Heaven being a happy place where we all join hands and sing Kumbaya, is a somewhat simplistic idea, not really what theology teaches, not the theology of Catholicism anyway. We don't really have the right words or language to express what Heavenly joy is like, but I know everything will be just as it is meant to be, and may well be different for each of us. As you say, Bratty, we don't know :) It definitely is first and foremost a place of love and a place where one's consciousness can grow much further than it can on earth.


I'll quote Peter Pan again (the original Peter from J.M. Barrie's book and the play) "To die will be an awfully big adventure."

As dear St Francis of Assisi rightly said:

"For it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life."

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


That's no problem, I've always enjoyed talking to myself :) I'm inordinately fond of a monologue, especially when I'm the one delivering it.

I must say you're very resistant to the old eternal life scenario. Is it that you don't like the idea of continuing life - if not, why not? Or is it that you do like the idea in principle but you don't want to get your hopes up in case there isn't anything after all? But in that case, what would it matter, as you wouldn't know anyway because you wouldn't exist!

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


My grandad always used to say, you'll never see anything worse than yourself :)


The problem you have there is accepted by whom? By society in general? Quite frankly I wouldn't trust society to go to the shop for a packet of biscuits let alone make the tea. They're as daft as a brush most of the time. That's why I prefer to take note of what the 'experts' think. The experts in the dying, are those who care for them, so hospice nurses are generally very trustworthy. They also need to be practical and down-to-earth to do their jobs properly. They will tell you that death bed phenomena of various kinds are very common. They can't provide an explanation of why, but they do know that they occur. The scent of flowers, particularly roses, in a room where there are no flowers is a very common thing when somebody is about to die. It's better to acknowledge things and discuss them than to pretend they don't happen.

Novi, whether you like it or not, you're not going to stop existing just because your body and brain cease to function.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 27 [1110]


One reason is when a leader thinks he's a possible target for assassination.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]

Oh, yes, plenty of things can be accounted for and it's important not to just accept every tale of the unusual as proof of ghosts or whatever.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


There are plenty of happenings that suggest otherwise.

I'm genuinely puzzled as to why people find continuing life such an unlikely idea. It seems far more likely than not.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


Thank you for your kind concern. We had the usual perpetual Mass enrollment and so on after he died. My grandmother died six months later so I'm sure she's kept him on the straight and narrow :) and my mother joined them a few years ago so I'm sure they're all fine. However, I will continue to pray for them all of course and I'm sure they're praying for me.

My granny actually saw him in the classic 'deathbed visitor' phenomena that Dr Fenwick mentions. She was in a nursing home by then and very frail, so we decided not to tell her he had died. She was slipping in and out of consciousness and asked why he didn't come to see her so we said he wasn't well but would come when he was better. One day, several weeks later, she said 'Your grandad was here! You told me he wasn't well but he looked wonderful He was wearing his navy blue suit' (That was his 'best' suit). 'He told me not to be getting upset about being in this place, I'll be going home soon and that he'll come for me when it's time'. She died shortly after. My mother also saw him before she died. People will say they were imagining it but at the moment there is no agreed explanation in the medical community for the reason these things occur. Until there is, I'll accept them for what they appear to be.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


It would be my grandfather. My mother saw him twice in the years after he died. He always worried about us when he was alive so he'd keep an eye on us after he went, I'm sure of that.

One of my teaching colleagues in Ireland had an experience when she was training to be a teacher and was sharing a flat in an old house in Dublin with a couple of other girls. She went into her bedroom one night and was about to switch on the light when she saw the figure of an old man kneeling by the bed praying. She was too scared to sleep there for a few days afterwards, but the other girls said 'ah sure he's only an aul fella saying his prayers. He's harmless' so she went back and slept there, but always with the door open and a lamp on :) she never saw him again.

If you chat to people you'll find that a lot of people have either seen or experienced something strange at some point in their lives. It's quite normal. I had a couple of strange experiences myself.


That is interesting indeed.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


But that's not so Novi. My grandfather had an NDE. He was a soldier, with fourteen years service in the British Army, and after discharge managed to start a business, operate it for forty years and retire with enough cash to buy the dream house by the sea. His NDE happened when he was over seventy and was a passenger in a car crash. There are plenty of sensible, capable people who have had an NDE.


Dr Fenwick is worth listening to for many reasons. Firstly his credentials. He was one of the foremost authorities on epilepsy and head of the UK's Neurophysiology, Sleep, and Epilepsy Unit at the Institute of Psychiatry and Maudsley Hospital, the chief psychiatric hospital in the UK. He was
also a professor neuro-physiology at Kings College, London and a consultant for Broamdoor, dealing with the criminally insane. This is not a man who is going to listen to daydreams, fairytales and imaginings and accept them as reality and this is a man who will assess these stories on a clinical basis. The fact that he had qualifications in both the psychiatry and physiology of the brain places him in a unique position to do that.

Secondly his decades of proper, academic research and the fact that he studied the dying, because as he pointed out, you can't ask a dead person anything, but you can observe those who are dying.

And finally his very calm, very British if one might say so, approach to the topic.

There is really nothing extraordinary about the idea that consciousness continues after we die. It seems quite logical to me. One doesn't need to believe in God, to believe in continuing life. In my view the whole thing is cyclical, not chronological, time too, I really don't think that time just runs in a straight line because that would suggest an end point and there isn't an actual end to time, it just carries on.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]

Very unlikely. I'd have to be saintly to attract the attention of demons :)

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


What I described is not an NDE. but leaving that aside for the moment, the theory you posit as a possible explanation of NDEs is not sufficient. How does one explain the patient who dies on the operating table and after being revived can tell the doctors what was going on in other parts of the hospital while he was 'dead'? Or who can tell us that 'The phone that Dr Jones lost is on the window sill in the staffroom'

There was a very eminent British neuro-psychiatrist and neruo-physiologist who said that he himself thought NDEs were a lot of nonsense, as he said 'the sort of thing that happened in California' until one of his patients had the experience. He only died in 2024, so his research was very up to date in terms of the scientific explanations available.

Here are a couple of interviews with him that I hope you'll watch. In the first video he is discussing the topic. Very interesting and well worth watching. In the second, there is a point at which he mentions the phenomenon of the 'death bed coincidence' where the dead person visits a loved one shortly after death. The funny thing is that he recounts the story of a woman visited by her son, very similar to what happened with my grandmother's cousin, his words to his mother were almost the same.

The thing is that we are all going to die, so it's a topic that is of interest to all of us and it's something we don't discuss enough in a calm and rational way. I'm not afraid of dying/being dead. As Peter Pan said (the one in J.M.Barrie's book, not the Disney abomination) 'to die will be an awfully big adventure'. My fear is around the manner of death, I wouldn't like it to be too sudden or violent but I also wouldn't like to spend years in a slow decline having witnessed it in my own family. I think what would be least upsetting for my family is also very important. 'Died peacefully at home after a short illness' would be the sort of thing I think I might go for!

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]

He knows me too well to think he could get away with stories of that kind.

Then there was my grandmother's cousin. He was an only child; he was killed in a car crash one morning. He was in the building trade and was going to a job in London (they lived about fifty miles away). He had to make an early start before his parents were up as he was getting a lift in a van with some other lads. When his mother went down to the kitchen to make breakfast at the usual time, there he was. 'Michael! What are you doing still here?' And he answered her 'Everything is all right Mam, don't worry, but I have to go now' and then he went out the back door and that was the last she saw of him. But he had already been killed earlier that morning having been picked up as arranged at the appointed time.

Now the woman was a devout Catholic and would never make up a tale like that.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]

No, I'm not kidding.

One night about ten years ago my husband got up to go the bathroom in the night. He said that when he came back into the bedroom, he saw a figure in the darkness, sitting on my side of the bed. Naturally he thought it was me. However as he came nearer, he realised that I was still in bed asleep. As he watched, the figure stood up, turned away, walked along by the side of the bed, round the end and then disappeared. He said he didn't feel frightened or upset. There was no malevolent vibe from the figure; he had the impression it was watching over me with some concern or protectiveness.

What do you think he saw?

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


That's what theology says - but what do you think?

Anyway, you never answered my question about ghosts. What's your opinion about them?

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


In fairness Novi, the Catholic Church does not expect you to take the Bible literally. But I know you're not keen on allegory and metaphor.

The Bible is a compilation of books/writings from diverse sources. Theology teaches that all those works which made into the final compilaton were divinely inspired. I don't accept that myself. But I do accept the four Gospels as the truth of the life of Jesus. as witnessed by those who knew him.

And the only part of the Bible that one really needs to concern oneself with is the Sermon on the Mount, because that sets out the charter for a Christian life. If you decide to follow that because it feels right to you, then you are seeking God, even if you don't believe in Him. And the Catholic Church teaches that all those who seek God with a sincere and loving heart are numbered among the faithful, even without visible bonds to the Church.


A Christian believes that God, in the form of Jesus, came to us and voluntarily put Himself through a horrible, painful, entirely unjust and humiliating death. He chose to suffer in a way that most of us will never have to. Why did He do that? Just presume for a moment that God is real The same God who allows children to be ripped apart by dogs, allowed Himself to be brutally murdered, hanging in agony for three hours on a cross. Try to make sense of why He did that.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


We don't know anything at all about Hell, or indeed about Heaven or even Purgatory. Almost everything apart from teeny weeny bits in the Bible which the Church says are not to be taken literally (and the lake of fire and brimstone is one of those), comes from private revelations, visions etc. which are not part of doctrine.

I can understand that point of view. It's one that many Christians share to some extent, the thing of trying to make sense of the terrible examples of suffering in the world. Those who retain their faith tend to find a way of making sense of it or just decide to accept the mystery.

Novi, as you don't believe that we have a soul and you think life ends with our death, what do you think about ghosts?

Language / New Years wishes in Polish? [56]

Adding my voice to the choir - Happy New Year! Here's hoping it will be a good one for all of us!

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


I will. But let's not have Novi dead and buried/cremated before his time. Anyway, he won't need my prayers, he'll be fine.

Are you worried that you'll come round while they're doing it? That's very unlikely. Make sure that the family knows you want to be left for a few days first so that you can be sure you're definitely gone.


I'd say that not believing in God is a good reason! But even for somebody who does believe, giving a child the mixed blessing of being a Catholic is not something to be undertaken lightly. I would be more inclined to baptise the child into the Anglican faith, which in it's 'high' form is very close to Catholicism and is recognised as valid baptism by the Catholic Church. That way the child is baptised but doesn't have the huge baggage that comes with being a Catholic though they can become one later if they want to. For example, the Anglo-Catholics have the Sacrament of Confession, but it's optional. The Anglicans have a saying about Confession, 'all may, some should, none must' which sits much more comfortably with me than mandatory Confession for certain kinds of sin. If I were choosing a faith, I would be Anglican. However, I'm not a Catholic by accident. For some reason, that was the path intended for me. I couldn't actually 'log out' of it with a clear conscience.


Surely you weren't baptised when you were seven? Do you mean your First Communion?

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]

That's interesting in view of the fact that you don't seem too happy at being a Catholic by default yourself, without having a choice in the matter - which I can understand. As cradle Catholics,you and I had the faith wished upon us, whereas those who choose it have only themselves to blame :)

Why did you decide to baptise them, if you don't mind explaining? I'm presuming it was because your wife wanted it? Do the wife and children know that you don't believe in God?

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


Did you have them baptised Novi?

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


He told me not to tell you.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


You're not a Catholic because somebody took you to church, but because you were baptised. According to the teachings of the Church, baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul. However, of course you can stop practising the faith at any time.


At fourteen I began questioning many aspects of the Church's teachings and stopped going to Confession, thus also stopped going to Communion. I rejected the teachings that made no sense to me in relation to what I knew of God, things that were contradictory, things that appeared to have been invented though we were told they were all divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. I separated the bells and whistles, as I call them, of organised religion from the simple truth that is God.

But I still find a lot of beauty and truth in aspects of Catholicism. I think also the fact that I had acquaintance with Orders such as the Franciscans, the Dominicans and Benedictines and wasn't subjected to the fire and brimstone variety of Christianity (either in school or at home), probably left me with an overall positive experience of Catholicism. Although I was facetious in my earlier comment about theology, there are some writings and practices within Catholicism that are really beautiful and beneficial to one's well-being.


We talk to Him in prayer and if you pray with an open heart, you will hear Him.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]

Why are you so fixated on theology? It's all just bells and whistles.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


It's neither.
Heaven or Hell refers to the soul in relation to God. When your soul is in eternal union with God after death you're in Heaven. When your soul is eternally separated from Him, you're in Hell.

To some people, God is a concept.

It seems to be Catholic theology that bothers you most, but there are plenty of people who don't accept the theology of the Catholic Church, yet they still believe in God. God and religion are not one and the same.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


You, yourself are the proof.

Hell and Heaven are a state of existence. The teaching of the Catholic Church is that Hell is eternal separation from God, through your own choice.

If one is a Catholic, which you are, through baptism, then there is quite a lot of leeway in what you can believe of the teachings of the Church. In fact most things are optional, Marian apparitions, etc. are completely up to yourself whether you believe in them, but there are a couple of things that are non-negotiable if you want to be in 'full communion' with the Church, Mary's perpetual virginity is one of them. However, you can be a Catholic and not in full communion which is actually the case for a lot of Catholics at least at some point in their lives, if not for their entire lives.

Btw, I see a lot of garbled theology in the replies to you, which are quite inaccurate and not actually what the Church teaches.

For example, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean saying rude things about God or Mary, so that ship hasn't sailed for you as Torq suggested.

The Immaculate Conception mentioned by Alien, is not the conception of Jesus, but the conception of Mary herself, who was born without Original Sin.

Anyway, you don't have to be a Catholic to go to Heaven, even the Catholic Church acknowledges that, though many Catholics would have you believe otherwise.

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


You have the answer to that question yourself. I was brought up a Catholic and although I still retain elements of that belief system, what I believe to be the truths present within that religion, I have come to a few conclusions of my own over my lifetime which are not in line with Church teachings. I don't have definite answers to anything which I can present to you as absolute truths, as you know quite well. But you don't need me to answer any questions. As I say, you can do that yourself.

In your case, I would say, at least allow yourself to be open to the possibilty of the existence of the soul. Why not? At this stage of your life, really, what harm can it do you to have an open mind on the topic?

Off-Topic / God and Religion Talk [458]


No. There has never been nothing. Just accept the mystery. You're part of it.