Language / Your perception of the Polish accent [145]

People are naturally hard-wired to find differences attractive to some degree (to facilitate gene flow), so accents (especially unfamiliar or uncommon ones) will almost always be a plus on the dating side. How it works in other areas of life is a different question. The accent that makes a Polish girl popular at a party might keep her from getting a job where accent is important (like a receptionist).

Also, people are fundamentally irrational about accents. There's no objective reason why particular accents (whether native or foreign) arouse particular feelings. It's all stereotypes and custom. I'd rather rinse my ears out with battery acid than listen to a Manchester accent for long periods of time but I recognize that that's just prejudice and I'd try to not let my asthetic judgement cloud how I treated a person with such an accent. But that's easier said than done.

I hardly hear Polish accents anymore unless it's really extreme.

For most people in the US any Slavic sounding accent (if it's very strong) has features that combined sound a little silly in serious environments like work or politics (this is the Borat syndrome). On the other hand, the Polish accent is much less "Slavic sounding" than Russian or Czech accents.

Work / Brazilian moving to Poland - job ideas, Polish language, other tips? [30]


Send me a private message.

Work / Cheap Labour in Poland - why is there a problem with unemployment in PL? [16]

First, don't believe any employment/unemployment figures by the Polish government. Unlike most countries that jigger the figures to make unemployment seem less a problem than it is, the figures in Poland are jiggered to make it seem like a bigger problem than it is.

Underemployment is a bigger problem. The Polish educational system (despite all the criticism it gets, some of which is very deserved) turns out more educated people than the employment market can comfortably absorb, many of whom look for greener pastures elsewhere.

I'd say the former Soviet Union is a better bet for labor than people from China and India. The former will integrate/assimilate more quickly and thoroughly than the latter. I'd also say if Poland wants to encourage Asian immigration it should go with Vietnam which has the advantage of long-standing ties and a proven history of being able to adapt to Polish conditions, language and culture.

Work / Salary expectations in Poland [373]

Food: Veggie food and Indian ingredients can be found in Warsaw, may be harder to find in other places. Warning: a vegetarian diet is more expensive in Poland than the alternatives.

Indian people in Poland: Few and far between.

Cost of living: Too many variables to answer. Are you alone? Will your company help with housing?

Language: to start learning Polish. Otherwise you'll be a pain in the neck to friends and co-workers (and get left out of things at the office unless they're all foreigners). Also, you won't be able to get much done unless you drag a translator around with you. Polish bureaucracy is monolingual and expects long term residents (over a year) to learn Polish, period. The good news is that the difficulties in learning survival Polish (as opposed to fluent literary Polish) are greatly exaggerated, especially while you're in Poland and the benefits will far outweigh the effort.

Work / Salary expectations in Poland [373]

I've never been to £ódź (pronounced Wootch) but AFAIK it's more Polish and not as cosmopolitan as Warsaw (or Kraków or Wrocław or Poznań).

Traditionally it has been where foreign students sent to study in Poland by their governments first learned Polish (in 8 months after which they had to be able to understand university lectures and textbooks). I don't know how many students like that are around now.

I have no idea on earth about apartment prices there either.

It's had rough times in the last 30 years or so but I think things are starting to pick up.

If you haven't seen them already, here are some english pages about Lodz.

en.cityoflodz.pl/index.php?str=35
uml.lodz.pl/index.php
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81odz

Language / Where did you start or the best techniques for learning Polish. [85]

First, inflectional endings for nouns, pronouns and ajectives are the most important. The case system is really the backbone of the language and getting those endings right (except for numbers - see below) is the most important single thing in learning to speak/understand Polish.

The point isn't always getting the right ending (hard even for Polish speakers some times) but getting a _plausible_ ending. So if you remember that the inanimate masculine genitive is -a or -u, even if you have to guess and get it wrong (which will sometimes happen) you'll still be understood. Don't waste time memorizing which nouns take -a or -u just remember that either -a or -u will be understood and let practice and exposure be your guide in choosing.

Verb endings are important but much easier generally and there's a lot more leeway for understanding and being understood even when they're not so accurate (the challenge of verbs isn't the endings but choosing which verb to use. I'd say verb selection is the second most important thing).

Light at the end of the tunnel time: In English, it's relatively easy for learners to pick up how to make simple sentences. What's really hard is combining sentences (sequence of tenses, dropping relative pronouns, different kinds of completments, nominalized dependent clauses etc). In Polish the reverse is true; making simple sentences is hard (all those endings!) but putting sentences together couldn't be easier so the transition from textbook to realworld Polish is a lot easier (here the only real limit is vocabulary) than the same transition in English which is typically long and painful.

Things you really should worry your pretty little head about when learning Polish Language:

numbers - easily the most uselessly difficult part of the language and even Polish people don't like to think too hard about getting the right form, I made a principled decision early on to pretty much not think about number endings and hardly anyone ever noticed, eventually I started picking up some of the right forms by osmosis.

constituent order - sometimes called 'word order' but here I mean order of subject, verb, object, adverbial. Really not worth worrying about until much later. While constituent order isn't as 'free' as some might have you believe, ordering subject and verb and object in even the most unlikely ways will not usually get in the way of communication. For now, just remember that Polish speakers tend to order sentences going from old/known information to new information (but you don't have to yet).

adjective position - before or after? who cares? well some people do, but it should be pretty far down on your list of priorities.

Off-Topic / Are Polish Christians here? [134]

IINM Adam Małysz is also a protestant.
I don't know if he belongs to the same denomination as Buzek (former PM) or not.

Life / Polish culture do's and dont's? [106]

Bunch of random observations:

As a foreigner, you will hear Polish people say the most negative things possible about their country and fellow citizens .... do not join in (with even the mildest agreement or criticism) it's a game that only the home team is allowed to play.

For Americans: Don't call people that you know only slightly 'friends', the word(s) in Polish traditionally have _much_ stronger connotations than in English. Americans have a reputation for being shallow and 'insincere' (very negative here) because they call everybody they know 'friends'. Reserve the word 'friend' for extremely close friendships and otherwise use the word 'acquaintance'. Yes, it sounds old fashioned but it will be understood. Similarly, don't say hello or nod to people you don't know but pass on the street (in cities, it may work differently in the countryside).

Don't leave money on the table in restaurants as a tip. Tipping is not strictly necessary, if you want to tip, round up the bill (around 10 per cent). It's completely okay to give them a larger bill and tell them how much change you want back. If you're bill is 63 zl you can give the waitperson a 100 and say you want 30 back (or say "let's say 70). The same goes for taxis.

Do not thank the waitperson as you hand them money or they'll assume you don't want any change back.

When you eat with someone you say 'thank you' at the end of the meal. You can also say while still seated to indicate you don't want to eat anymore.

If someone insists on drinking with you when you've had enough, you can beg off by drinking with them 'symbolically' (drinking something with minimal or no alcohol while they continue to chug it down).

For new arrivals. Pay no attention AT ALL to the intonation people use in English for at least six months, only pay attention to the words and pretend the intonation is neutral, no matter what it sounds like to you. Polish intonation is different from any kind of English and they never have intonation as part of English class. After six months or so you'll start to pick up local versions.

Conversational topics are a lot freer and less restricted than what you may be used to and you find yourself being asked questions that you think are too personal. Think of this as good practice in using your evasive language skills.

Poland is a wonderful place for wimpy anglophones to gain some assertiveness. When you're really upset don't hide it, throw a tantrum. Nobody will hold it against you and it might get you more consideration in the future.

This doesn't apply with people that clearly outrank you. There's generally more overt deference given to people on the basis of status/age/higher position. Be careful around people who outrank you until you learn the rules of engagement.

Men, don't worry too much about when to make your move. If a Polish woman is interested in you, believe me, you'll know. Most Polish women are not shy and retiring and they won't wait forever, they'll give you a chance to make the first move and if you don't then they will.

Women, same thing in reverse. Polish men (at least the more worthwhile ones) are often kind of ... prudish. The lechers are creepy and you'll want to give them a wide bearth but if you are interested in a guy, then be prepared to show (just a little) initiative.

Life / Polish culture do's and dont's? [106]

Assuming the 'last part' refers to male-female interactions, bear in mind that I was only writing about Polish non-Polish interactions (which I could have made clearer).

Polish-Polish interactions are definitely different from Polish-foreigner ones.

Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]

zacznij żyć

zacznij is the (singular) command form of zacząć (start, begin)

żyć = to live (be alive)

so, 'start to live' or 'start living'

Life / Any good Polish films to watch? [110]


Not to mention totalitarian murderers... No wonder you don't like Poland or Polish people.

Work / Are you teaching English in Poland? [120]

1. Yes
2. Western Poland
3. Neither, but the second is closer, especially in the beginning.
4. Up to you, dude. If you're not an EU citizen, you need to get the job (and visa) before arriving.
5. Many, many language schools. Relatively few that treat foreign teachers fairly and with respect.
6. Not traditional ESL qualifications, but other, possibly more important ones (plus tons o' experience now)
7. Depends on what I'm doing. Not being British I find the standard textbooks here to be awkward and unnatural. I mostly use real-world materials and my own (and I specialize in advanced learners)

8. Ha! Ha! Ha!
9. My main job found me, besides my best efforts to duck away.
10. That's when the grapevine (among natives in your destination) is for.
11. The private market hires for fall (september) and winter (february) and intermittently for the summer (language camps, avoid if you can)
12. Anyone and everyone you can think of. If you have a target destination use google plus "szkoła językowa" and send out emails and faxes like crazy until you get some leads. If you have contacts on the ground in Poland, work them mercilessly. Getting here is half the battle. Once you're here (legally) you have more room to maneuver and find extra/better work.

13. Depends on how much tolerance you have for private lessons (note: too many private lessons will sap your will to live)
14. Depends on your assertiveness level (employers will try to get you to teach as many classroom hours for as little money as possible, knowing how to put your foot down is a useful skill)

15. Depends. The traditional model is that teachers supplement their income with private lessons.
16. A Polish family (with working spouse) maybe. A non-Polish non-working-spouse family? No.
17. Where?
18. I'm not interested in teaching only English, but I get to teach other interesting things too.

Work / Advice on Teaching English in Poland [709]


You are, are you? I'm curious about people who don't use capital letters correctly. Drop the 'tude, it's unbecoming.

Food / What is your favorite Polish Vodka? [653]

My current favorites:

Luksusowa : cheap and good, you can pay a lot more and not get better vodka (and it works very well in mixed drinks)

Żołądkowa Gorzka Czysta : At first I was disappointed, these folks usually put out herbal vodkas (which I like very much) and I thought this was a new flavor, but it's not, it's a ... clear vodka that's _very_ smooth.

Non-Polish all-time favorite: Finnlandia

History: I never much cared for Wyborowa, the first time I was in Poland, the big vodka was Żytnia (made from rye) but it's all but forgotten now, it exists but who drinks it? This may be related to the general fall in quality in the early 90's when there was also lots of pirated vodka (that could get you very sick if you happened across it). I would like Żubrówka more if I hadn't drunk a bunch once after drinking a lot of wine (hey, I was young and innocent and didn't know that's a bad idea) with all too predictable results (holding onto toilet for dear life).

Life / I'm British in Poland and I think that it's time to go back to the UK! [240]

I must be very lucky, because while I've certainly not always been pleased with Polish bureaucracy (no one is ever pleased with a bureaucracy, even the people that work there usually find it frustrating and irrational) I can't really complain at my treatment overall in Poland.

A few hints from someone who's been on both sides (I worked in a bureaucracy for several years):

Assume the bureaucrat and you are on the same side. Really, usually they are. The bureaucrat that takes pleasure in frustrating people is pretty rare anywhere, bureaucrats who don't mind frustrating rude or aggressive clients who don't or can't follow simple instructions are not.

To avoid being classified in this category, it's helpful to:

Be cheerful, pleasant and polite. Many people approach bureacracy already in snarl-mode and this does nothing to help things along.

Assume you're going to get what you want even if there's a delay or two and some inconvenience (this ties in with the first point).

Repeat what you've been told in your own words. IME (not only) Polish people are hesitant to do this but it's a very good way to catch misunderstandings (before you do a bunch of wrong stuff that doesn't help anyone).

Ask questions. IME many Polish people are hesitant to ask questions and therefore often end up acting on poorly understood (or plain misunderstood) information. This does nothing to help anyone. One big difference between Polish (and some anglophone) bureacracies (sometimes) is that Polish bureaucrats tend to answer only the question you actually ask and don't try to give you the information you need (but don't know how to ask for). "Do I have to do anything before X?" "Do I have to do anything after X?" "Is there anything else I need to do?"

Take notes in writing (just say "I'm afraid I'll forget something important if I don't write it down") ask the bureaucrat to verify that what you've written is correct. Often this will lead you to be supplied with written info from the bureaucracy or the bureaucrat will just write it down themselves (which can also be helpful).

Language / How do I pronounce "Kocham Ciebie"? [19]


Well I haven't heard you, so I don't know.

Snark aside, no one says kocham ciebie, they say kocham cię "KOH-hahm chyeh"
The answer is "Ja ciebie też" (Yah CHYEH-byeh TESH, literally "I you too".

The ch in kocham is somewhere between ch in Bach (or loch) and English h in happy.
The vowels are like Spanish or Italian but -ie = ye (the y is pronounced together with the consonant in front of it).

Work / Easiest way for native English speaker to get a job in Poland? [35]

Yes. The regulations as I understand them are still that your first job in Poland _must_ be obtained (along with a visa with permission to work) while still in your home country. You cannot legalize your stay in Poland if you come without a job and find one here. If you can afford it, you could come to Poland, find a job and then go back to the states to get the visa but that's not easy or quick or cheap.

As for finding a job, use the internet send your resume to every school you can find and see if your friend can dig up something too.

Work / Easiest way for native English speaker to get a job in Poland? [35]

IINM (don't take my word for it!) EU citizens are free to live and work in Poland and need no visas (though they have to register with the immigration office). I have no idea bout EU residents (permanent or temporary) who aren't EU citizens.

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]


Au contraire. For a native speaker of English who also knows some German (or vice versa) the Scandinavian (mainland) Germanic languages are absurdly easy to learn to read. Yes, speaking and understanding are different and harder, but I didn't have to put in much effort to learn to read a fair amount of Swedish and Norwegian.

Written Dutch should be easier (more closely related to English and German), but for some reason it isn't (for me).

Genealogy / Polish Gypsy Roots & Roma ancestors in their families [206]


And so modest!


Are you related to a Ms Pollard by any chance?

youtube.com/watch?v=HPM4emsqwag

relevant quote at 1.27

Polonia / Polish workers in Denmark [41]

You might wanna brush up yourself before correcting others. It's actually "Polish people who work."

Cześć now.

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]


Technically languages aren't aglutinative, only particular structures are.

It's true that in Hungarian there are more aglutinative structures than in Polish which has more inflected structures than Hungarian but both kinds of structures are found in both languages. Just the overall percentages differ.

But Lengyelorszag isn't aglutinative, it's a simple compound.

Where does 32 cases come from? Most lists I've seen have between 15-20 cases. The numbers differ because Hungarian doesn't lend itself so much to charts of cases, the 'cases' fall into different classes and cases are created and go out of use more quickly than in Polish. When I was studying Hungarian I never really thought to count cases, I just learned endings on their own. It never occurred to me to ask 'How many cases'?

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

First, the wikipedia article makes clear (without cleary saying, grrrrrr) that "agglutinative language" is an abbreviation for "language with a lot of agglutinating structures". It's a useful abbreviation but you do need to remember it's just an abbreviation and not a typological criteria that makes any sense (beyond specific structures). Linguists all know that different kinds of processes are found in all languages.

Past tense and conditionals are the best examples of agglutinative kinds of structures in Polish.

przeczytałeś

prze-czyta-ł-Ø-eś

through-read-past-masc-secondpersonsg

(it's tempting to think of (e) here as being a mark of masculine gender, but it's not, it's just there to prevent the cluster *-łś

which wasn't allowed when this structure arose.

chciałabym

chcia-ł-a-by-m

want-past-feminine-conditional-firstpersonsg

This esepecially (by accident) seems very agglutinative, historically of course it's three separate words (chciała by m) that got turned into one (you could argue that it should be written as two words (chciała bym, which is how it's said) at which point it becomes less agglutinative.

The Hungarian equivalents of these are actually more synthetic than Polish.

megolvastod
meg-olvas-tod
perfect-read-pastsecondpersonsgwithobject

Some people try to pull off the -t- as the past tense marker but it doesn't work very well.

szeretnék
szeret-nék
want-conditionalfirstpersonsg

Again, some linguists try to pull off the -né- (or ne-) but I'm not convinced.

Life / Disco Polo - No No No No No! [95]

As a frequent viewer of disco relax, you really don't wanna mess with me.
Here's just a taste of the pain I can inflict:

Life / Disco Polo - No No No No No! [95]

Your wish is my command ......

Life / Disco Polo - No No No No No! [95]

Submitted for your consideration:

Not many people realize that Adam Małysz got his start singing Disco Polo ....

Life / Disco Polo - No No No No No! [95]

Well the following is largely in English and as disco-polo as it gets.

Basically, many or most Polish people are socialized to believe that music from an English-speaking country (maybe Scandinavia too) is inherently intelligent and in good taste (not understanding or paying attenton to the lyrics for decades helped maintain this illusion).

Disco polo is not my ... preferred thing to listen to, but it certainly was no worse than international mega-crap like Ace of Base or Dr Alban or Aqua etc etc etc. But it was entirely too .... Polish to appeal to the elite.

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]


Thanks, I couldn't remember for sure and just wanted some form olvas with a prefix (technically called a co-verb in English) and assumed meg was always safe to use.


Well the t is a past tense marker in some sense, but ... if you pull if off as a separate morpheme then you have to account for different allomorphs (basically t or-ta and ott with elolvas) and the past tense verb endings are different from the present tense endings. The first person singular endings in the present are -ok and -om while in the past they're -am. A more purely agglutinative structure would have the past tense marker and then the person markers (which wouldn't have different forms in different tenses so the forms would be elolvastok, elolvastom). That's why I said that past tense in Hungarian isn't so agglutinative.

Also I found it _much_ easier to think of separate endings rather than separate conjugations. That is (for my own learning purposes) I found a conjugation chart like the following to be much easier to remember and use.

olvasok
olvasom
olvaslak

olvasol
olvasod

olvas
olvassa

etc etc (my hungarian is very rusty and I did that from memory so there might be a mistake or several)

Then I remember that the first ending for each person is used when there's no object or an indefinite object, the second is used for a definite object (as defined in Hungarian) and the third for a second person object.

That was 10 times easier to use (for me) than 'two conjugations' that don't even include all the endings (-lak/-lek isn't included in either).

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

Why is the name of this thread phrased so negatively? No way am I participating in it beyond the following comment:
Yes, there are things I don't like in Poland but I certainly don't hate the place (I certainly wouldn't live here if I did). I'll decline to comment anymore on this thread.

I might contribute to a thread devoted to pet peeves but not one that implies that I hate Poland.

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

As a native speaker of English, I'd say Hungarian word order is harder than Polish.

Polish word order follows two basic ideas (it's more complicated than that but I'm simplifying on purpose to make a point)

1. Subject Verb Object (if all are present and the whole sentence is new information)
2. Older information - Newer information (you start with older information and end with newer information.

And crucially departures from idiomatic word order are no big deal.

Hungarian is just more complicated in terms of word order.

1. Hungarian is mixed in terms of basic word order, sometimes it's Subject Object Verb and other times Subject Verb Object.
2. Hungarian also uses the older information followed by new information pattern but this is less important than
3. focus (non-existant in Polish) the element just before the personal verb has a special importance and receives the main stress and depending on what's focused this can cause ripples throughout the rest of the sentence.

Departures from idiomatic word order are a bigger deal than in Polish IME.

On the other hand case suffixes are a major pain in Polish (gender, number, kind of stem blah, blah blah) while they're super easy in Hungarian.