Language / Is There A Name For This Dialect? [12]

Many thanks for the information. Now I remember these relatives mentioning the dialect was called "HA-hol". This is a phonetic pronunciation because I do not know how the write it in Polish. They told me it was a derogatory term for the language. It was like saying somebody spoke like a "hill-billy" in English. Ignorant and backwards. Has anybody heard of this term? "HA - hol". Thanks for all the info.

Language / Is There A Name For This Dialect? [12]

Thank you. This is, to say the least, an eye-opener for me. I have a couple other language "terms" that I will post later. I need to ask my relatives about some things.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

Merged:

Books On Polish History

I did a few searches and I think I'm on the right path. I'm interested in Polish history up till the dissolution of the Commonwealth.

A couple threads mention Davies' GOD'S PLAYGROUND but they also mention that it is way too complicated for a novice. I have the book and I agree.

The threads mention Zamoyski's POLAND, A HISTORY. I'm currently making my way through this book and find the narrative very readable. I'm at Sobieski's timeline at the moment (end of 17th c,).

I do refer back to Davies's book by checking the index.
So now I want more. I want another decent chronological narrative history that accentuates the positives and negatives up to 1795.
Any recommendations? Thanks for your interest and help.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

I'm interested only in books in English.

I finished Zamoyski's POLAND, A HISTORY and am into Chapter 6 of Daniel Stone's THE POLISH-LITHUANIAN STATE, 1386-1795.
I purchased this years ago but it stayed on my bookshelf until now.
I highly recommend it because of its STYLE.
Historians don't like to call "history" a chronicle because history is much more than a list of events.

But a chronicle style helps when a subject is as difficult as early Polish history.
Stone writes in such a style. It's almost an outline/note form. He has a good narrative style that makes for easy, quick reading. It's chronological based on political history - which is how most histories are written. It;s divided by monarch.

There are chapters on other histories covering a period of time. These chapters are interjected into the period being covered. They cover such topics as social, economic, agricultural, urban, artistic, educational, religious histories.

So far I'm enjoying it.

Again, I'm open to any other suggestions.

This is my only reading topic now. I go through phases then I don't read for long spells of time. My last phase was American Civil War naval history. Now it's Polish history until 1795.

My next phase will be Polish history IMMEDIATLY after WW II. I'm finding out a lot of stuff happened that never made the news. If it happened in today's world, it would be front page news every day.

Language / Is There A Name For This Dialect? [12]

I finally found more info !!!

When I was very young, I heard my babci (from the Minsk area) call my mother a name when they argued.

RUS-ki Ka-tsop

What des that mean? Nobody in the family was Russian. Ha-ha!!!
Again many thanks for your help. To say the least, it's enlightening.

History / Differences between Poland and Russia [43]

This is my opinion, for whatever it's worth. My "two cents" worth, so to speak.

The original poster of this thread is nothing but an instigator --- a troll.

This thread should have been trashed.

Language / Is There A Name For This Dialect? [12]

Thank you all for the responses. I knew my grandmother was not giving compliments when they argued. LOL !!! Both are Polish. My grandmother came from the Minsk area; my mother's family came from the Lublin area.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

I really appreciate any input. Thanks all. The history of Poland up till the partitions is a very difficult topic. That's over 850 years of constantly changing history. It's a challenge but it's exciting.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

It is a little bit daunting. All I ever heard about Poland in world history classes was the partitions. No reason was ever even for such actions.

I tried to study Polish history years ago but there were not too many books available.
Now I think there are good books available. I was just hoping some forum members had a more in-depth knowledge of history books on Poland in English.

Can you recommend a forum that deals with Polish history? Even if it's a Polish language forum, that's OK.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

Concerning Stone's THE POLISH-LITHUANIAN STATE, 1386-1795. I'm reading this history book but I became disappointed with his coverage of how Russia became Poland's "protector" around the turn of the start of the 18th century.

You turn the page and Russians are everywhere taking care of the Polish state. There is no clear cut explanation of how this happened. It lacks a detailed progression.

Concerning the Deluge period, Stone has done an exemplary job. He laid out, step by step, what happened. It was very understandable for someone relatively new to Polish history.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]


I saw this book but it only covered up till the union. It must be very detailed. It probably would be too much for me who is new to Polish history. It is my intention to get it eventually. First I need to get a better understanding of the timeline of events. Currently I'm tackling A CONCISE HISTORY OF POLAND by Jerzy Lukowski and Hubert Zawadzki, Second Edition, 2006. The is part of the Cambridge Concise Histories series. I'm only going to read Part I, up til 1795. This is another book that has been on my bookshelf for years.

Zawadzki ----- How do you pronounce it? za-VAD-zki or za-VA-jeki ???

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

@Kashub1410

One thing I've noticed so far in reading Polish history during the Commonwealth period (1600-1795) is that the commonwealth never had enough money. Being a decentralized state monies were poorly collected, corruption seems rife. Certain families were richer than God Almighty yet during this period of early modern history funds were always lacking to get anything done. This is a time when great nation states were being consolidated into modern countries (England, France, Spain, Russia, Prussia, Austria, Sweden).

It's just an observation. Poor tax collecting, poor tariff control, poor currency, no concept of investments, poor banking system, etc., etc.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

I like the way @pawian and @Kashub1410 comment on the overall state of affairs. To me it's a decent summary of what I've been reading. I'm assuming, but could be wrong, that both of you were educated in Poland. Therefore you have a better overall view of the issues that occurred before 1795.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

A comment on reading Polish history in English.
In addition to the books I've mentioned in previous posts, I've also finished quite a number of Polish history books that were of a more simple nature.

Examples are John Radzilowski's A TRAVELLER'S HISTORY OF POLAND, 2007; Anira Prazmowska"s A HISTORY OF POLAND, 2004; Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski's POLAND, AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY, 2000; Robert Bubczyk's A HISTORY OF POLAND IN OUTLINE, 2006. I've also read Pawel Jasienica's A TALE OF AGONY, THE COMMONWEALTH OF BOTH NATIONS, Vol. III, 1992 and Patrice Dabrowski's POLAND, THE FIRST THOUSAND YEARS, 2016.

So what is my comment?
I've always enjoyed reading all types of history. When I read the history of France or Sweden or the Ottoman or Seljuk Turks or the Mongols or China or Vietnam the PROPER NAMES are always, always consistent when I read these histories in ENGLISH.

When I read Polish history in ENGLISH not so. Names of towns, of cities, of titles, of provinces, of regions, first names, surnames, foreign names, currency, military, book titles, schools, histories, etc., etc. are always all different. Some of the previous history books I mentioned above even have a preface chapter dealing with PROPER NAME and how they're used. Only Polish history books in ENGLISH have this. No other history books of non-English speaking countries have this unique problem. Not even Chinese history books in English have this problem.

Why is that? Why is there absolutely no consistency what so ever where Polish proper names and nouns are used ???
It's like you're trying to decipher hieroglyphics !!! The ONLY consistency is when the names of rivers are mentioned, That's it !

History / What Was Happening in Poland around 1905? [73]

I love the stories of the families that are being told on this thread.
Around 1905 is when my grandfather and his brothers were conscripted into the Russian army. Russia wasn't doing too well internationally and internally.
Like mentioned in other posts. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY was the reason for leaving. There was no money and NO OPPORTUNITY to make money. So a few months before WW I he came to America and immediately sent for his girlfriend, my grandmother.

On all the paperwork he is listed as POLISH but country of origin is always listed as RUSSIAN POLAND. In doing research I found he actually came from modern Belarus.

So for anyone doing family history or deep genealogy I strongly recommend knowing about Polish history, especially the period of the great migrations - 1885-1914. Good luck. It can get very convoluted. We're lucky to have this forum. Sometimes questions can be answered easily here. That's a bonus.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

Here's a quick example off the top of my head. Why do they say "Sigismund"? Oh, why "Cracow"? "Casimir", "Jagello"? Different history books about Poland in English keep jumbling names around. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, if I read a Chinese history book in English everything is consistent. The same goes for a Turkish, German or even Russian history book in English. Proper names are always consistent. It's Polish (and I must admit Ukrainian also) that nothing is consistent.

How do you spell Kosiusko? There's a bridge in New York City with this name. When I listen to the radio and the traffic reports it's pronounced "KO-see- yus-ko"

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

@pawian @Kashub1410
OK thanks for the info.
So my point is, when I read a Polish history book in English, the name Zygmunt should always be used. Correct?

History / Recommended Poland's history books [191]

This is my next book to read. I've read Zamoyski's newer book, POLAND, A HISTORY but I decided to also read his older (1987) book THE POLISH WAY. You're comments immediately caught my eye.

If you have time can you please tell me more. What I mean is if you can give a couple examples of "false assumptions". Being new to Polish history, I'm in the process of absorbing everything. I can't make a scholarly decision as to weather the historian is presenting a good narrative or is the historian writing with some sort of agenda in mind.

What i can tell at this time is if the historians I read cover certain periods in a satisfactory manner. (At least to me) Examples: One history book did not cover the problems that led up to the Deluge in enough depth to make sense. Another history book did not cover how Russia became involved in every aspect of Poland's internal and external affairs. One chapter you're talking about a Saxon king; the next chapter Russia is "running" Poland. I can tells gaps like this but anything more sophisticated I'm at a loss.

That's why I'm so interested in your comments.

Genealogy / Where is Lazon? [7]


Thank you for your help.
I did research and found out that there are two places with the name Lazany. One pronounced WA-zhani and the other pronounced WA-zani.
Unfortunately neither was part of Russian Poland in 1885. The first one was located in German Poland, 44 km SW of Wroclow; the other was 20 KM SE of Krakow.

Again, many thanks.

Genealogy / Where is Lazon? [7]

Thank you. I'll investigate it.

Genealogy / Where is Lazon? [7]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.!!! That has got to be the place. It's 20 km (12.5 miles) from where my grandmother was born and my grandfather & grandmother were married. On modern roads it's only a 20 minute drive.

I need to go back on line to read the documents. Was I reading "Lazow" as "Lazon"? Maybe. But I'm now 99.9% sure that this is the place where my grandfather came from. Again, thank you.

History / Not proud of my Polish heritage [110]

Hello all. I'm new to the POLISH FORUM. I've been looking around and decided to read this thread.
Naturally this thread caught my eye. It took me a while to read the entire thread and one thing shocked me.
I belong to a couple other forums. A couple deal with history. I was shocked in reading the thread because it allowed NAME CALLING, i.e. personal attacks on a poster. Rather than counter point an opinion/view point of a person, certain posters will call the person a name. This leaves a bad impression.

For someone new it sounds "childish". Worse is that the moderators don't do anything about it.
If you play these games on other forums the poster is warned. Oftentimes their comments are removed. If they keep it up they could get banned from the thread, maybe suspended from the forum. If they persist then they're totally banned forever.

I'm debating if I should re-read this thread to make better sense out of it or should I move on to another thread.

History / Not proud of my Polish heritage [110]


When I read this I laughed and cried at the same time. OK everyone. I've been warned. I should stay away from these off-topic threads. I will do that.


Attacks on the person (ad hominem) rather than their position is not free speech but rather just plain rudeness.

History / Not proud of my Polish heritage [110]

Never go back!

Just a comment. That's why I'm here in the USA. My ancestors came from Russian Poland to the USA. They NEVER, NEVER intended to stay in the USA. They were only going to make money and go back to the "Old Country".

Within one week of being in the USA they made up their minds to stay and sent for their wives, kids, girlfriends, etc. That was it. They never went back.

History / Not proud of my Polish heritage [110]

There's a lot of different reasons for not going back. Each one is individual. Oftentimes it's complicated. One part of the family came from a part of Russian Poland that is not even Poland today. They were going to return but their relatives wrote to them and said not to return. The political situation didn't look too good. War was going on in the Balkans. My relative brought his girl friend over and five months later Europe exploded into WW I.

The area they came from was only made up of about 8% Polish (based on the 1897 Czarist Russian Census) so there wasn't much of anything to go back to. When both sides of my family settled in America, they settled in Polish neighborhoods. Everyone from the butcher to the baker and everyone in between was Polish Catholic or Polish Jew. Even if you were illiterate you could comfortably make your way. Life was good.

History / Not proud of my Polish heritage [110]

I am still thinking about the OP. I'm pondering over it, so to speak. I don't know if I have a response to it.

I will say that at the moment (for the last couple of months) I have been intently reading Polish history up to 1795. I know very little about Polish history so I'm determined to know as much as possible now. There's a lot of comments that could be made based on this earlier history.

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]

My aunt, who was Polish, settled in Baltimore. Her husband was also Polish. His family always called his mother "busha".
As an endearment, We always called both our grandmothers "BAH-chee". Dziadzi was always dziadzi.

Genealogy / Easy way to find out which Polish coat of arm/Clan you belong to. [105]

Just a little note. Bilgoraj is a little town/city. Lubelskie is Lublin, the "district" where the town was located. I don't know the Polish word for the name of the title "district".

(My mother's side of the family came from a little village outside of Bilgoraj).