The BEST Guide to POLAND
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Posts by pawian  

Joined: 30 May 2008 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 19 Mar 2025
Threads: Total: 226 / Live: 154 / Archived: 72
Posts: Total: 27461 / Live: 21378 / Archived: 6083 		From: Poe land
Speaks Polish?: Yes, but I prefer English
Interests: Everything funny

Displayed posts: 21532 / page 666 of 718
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pawian   
24 Jun 2013
History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

Who knows?

As for baptism, it is interesting to know what pagan Slavs worshipped in pre-christian era.

E.g.,
Swiatowid

and oak trees and celebrated Night of Kupala, whose atmosphere must have resembled that of today`s carnival in Brazil.

No wonder, things didn`t go so smoothly with conversion. There were pagan risings (first in Poland!) in 11 century. Rulers ordered to deprive restive pagans of their teeth if they didn`t want to fast.
pawian   
23 Jun 2013
History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

Why do you think so?

You missed Polish 3rd May Constitution which gave rights to peasants but was abolished by Russia and others through partitions.

Both from justice, humanity and Christian duty, as from our own self-interest properly understood, we accept under the protection of the law and of the national government the agricultural folk, from under whose hand flows the most copious source of the country's wealth, and who constitute the most numerous populace in the nation and hence the greatest strength of the country, and we determine that henceforth whatever liberties, assignments or agreements squires authentically agree to with peasants of their estates, whether those liberties, assignments and agreements be done with groups or with individual inhabitants of a village, shall constitute a mutual obligation, in accordance with the true sense of the conditions and provisions contained in such assignments and agreements, subject to the protection of the national government. [...]

en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_May_3,_1791

Declaration of 3rd May Constitution:

Polish Constitution
pawian   
23 Jun 2013
History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

A good history of the Polish state. Let's try a history of the Polish Nation, which is quite different:

Wow! It is a good one! Thanks.

However, you do you so often repeat the phrase about Polish nation being non-existent or minority:

No Polish Nation at that time.

Do you feel bitter about sth or what?
pawian   
23 Jun 2013
History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

Another angle - A Vatican State stamp from 1966 depicts Mieszko who adopted Christianity for Poland and his Czech wife, Dobrawa.

s

It seems she played quite a role in converting her husband. Women rule!!
The baptism of Poland refers to the ceremony when the first ruler of the Polish state, Mieszko I, his wife, Dobrawa of Bohemia, and his court, converted to the Christian religion.[7][4] Dobrawa, a zealous Christian, played a significant role in promoting Christianity in Poland, and might have had significant influence on converting Mieszko himself.[1][5]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_Poland
pawian   
23 Jun 2013
History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

Pawian, are you looking for other PF members to add illustrations?

Yes! With great pleasure! Everybody is welcome! I don`t hold a monopoly on illustrating PF. :):):)

I found this one for baptism; a mural in Gniezno:

Wow! I didn`t know this one though I once visited the cathedral.
Must be somehow hidden from the public.
Or it is a modern creation. :):):)
pawian   
23 Jun 2013
History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

Here is the briefest listing of Polish history in 10 points:

1. Baptism
2. Kings and queens
3. Golden Age
4. Decline
5. Partitions
6. Risings
7. Resurrection
8. World wars
9. Communism
10 EU.

It covers 1047 years. Not bad.
pawian   
20 Jun 2013
History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]

70 years ago Ukrainian ultra nationalists started killing Polish population in Wołyń and Eastern Galicia region. Massacres were extremely brutal, about 100.000 Polish citizens were murdered in a horrible way, including babies.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

Today, 20.06.2013, Polish Senate proclaimed a tribute to the victims of "ethnic cleansing of genocidal aspect." Most Senators didn`t agree to name it pure "genocide" as PiS Senators desired.

Unable to unanimously adopt a resolution in the Senate on the 70th anniversary of the crime Volyn . Senators from the Law and Justice wanted to July 11th Martyrdom Day of Remembrance establish Kresowian and Volyn massacre same call in the resolution of genocide. Did not obtain it , however, the consent of the majority of the Chamber in Poland.

On the resolution senators debated on Wednesday, but then failed to establish a single version of the text , and it was addressed to further work in the Senate legislation. Some senators emphasized that the resolution should be set July 11th Martyrdom Day of Remembrance Kresowian . On this day in 1943, attacked the UPA approx. 100 Polish village. It was the culmination of crimes in Volyn , resulting in the killing , according to estimates of the IPN , approx. 100 thousand . Poles. The Ukrainian side is estimated their losses at 10-20 thousand victims.

Poles are in a cleft stick nowadays - we need to keep up good relations with Ukraine to encourage her to choose Europe instead of Russia. At the same time, Polish memory of massacres is still vivid but Ukrainians, unlike Germans, refuse to admit the evil they did to Poles. it is enough to compare Polish and Ukrainian Wiki entries on the subject. uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%96%D1%8F

During our last year`s trip to Bieszczady Mountains we came across monuments devoted to the victims of Ukrainian rabid nationalism.

Białogród, a little village in south east Poland:


  • 101_0330.JPG

  • 101_0331.JPG

  • 101_0333.JPG

  • 101_0334.JPG
pawian   
19 Jun 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

Yes, indeed, unknown.
But I know now why WW2 German occupiers of Krakow insisted that it was a German city. :):)

Germans buy a lot of Polish manufactured goods. Germany tops the list of Polish export destinations.

Poland's exports to Germany amounted to $56.5 billion or 26.1% of its overall exports.

1. Vehicles: $7.2 billion
2. Electronic equipment: $6.2 billion
3. Machines, engines, pumps: $6.1 billion
4. Furniture, lighting, signs: $4.5 billion
5. Plastics: $3 billion
6. Iron or steel products: $2.5 billion
7. Oil: $1.6 billion
8. Wood: $1.6 billion
9. Rubber: $1.5 billion
10. Copper: $1.4 billion
pawian   
19 Jun 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

Hmmm... I am afraid you are mistaken by about 200 years in your estimates about German majority of Krakow at the times of Durer and his adventures at Wawel Castle. :):) Last true German residents were finished off by King £okietek for starting a rebellion against him in 1311. :):):)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion_of_mayor_Albert
pawian   
19 Jun 2013
History / Film "Wałęsa" - historical reality vs myth - controvercies [110]

The film is being made by most renowned Polish director - Wajda. There have already been protests against Wajda after certain parts of the script were revealed to the public.

They are going to release it in September/October.
Lech Wałęsa, an electrician at the Gdańsk shipyards, participated in 1970's local demonstrations. [10] While he keeps the bloody aftermath in mind he concentrates on day-to-day duties. Yet ten years later a new uprising takes place and he happens to become an unexpected and charismatic leader of Polish dockworkers. [11] This is the beginning of a new movement that successfully stands up to the communistic regime. Wałęsa is pushed into representing the working population of Poland. The Soviet Union, hitherto regarded as too fearsome to mess with, has to cut them slack.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa_%28film%29

Speech to workers

Walesa Poland

The Wałęsas had 8 children. Wow!

Street fight

Poland street fight

Arrest

Victory in Poland over communists

The film is ready and is going to be first shown in September in Venice.

The first controvercy: real Wałesa approves of historical facts presented in the film but dislikes the acting - he says that the main actor turned his Wałęsa into an arrogant and conceited fool.

Real

Actor
pawian   
19 Jun 2013
History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]

How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer

Without going into details, if Poland had accepted it, our population losses during the war would have been much lower, I suppose.

But today we would live in a country of the size of Lithuania - only with central lands, without those in Western or easterns parts. And the Polish coastline would be still 145 km like before the war.
pawian   
18 Jun 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

Did you know that Hans Dürer became the court painter for Sigismund I the Old and made some frescos at Wawel Castle?:

s
pawian   
18 Feb 2013
Travel / Completely random views of Poland, a co! [80]

Sorry, I need a nice atmosphere to develop such personal threads but I feel uneasy about the current tensions in the PF. Excuse me, I am disenchanted for a while.

You're leaving me little choice but to bump and re-bump myself, here.

Thank you very much for active contributing here, but one little request from me: can you spare more info on the photos? The last one might be misleading to a few people.....they might think it is "modern" Poland.
pawian   
18 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

No, I don't understand your idea of "reparation"

I am sorry, I cannot help you anymore. Let it stay so, then.
pawian   
17 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

Seriously though: there's not much support left in Germany for the commies, and even less for the fascists. File it under bad experience.

One more position to include in the list of things we owe to Germans. They have become civilised at last. :):):)

That's at least my impression when I talk to Germans.

Good! Another item to include!
pawian   
16 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

That is good that Germans are so orderly and disciplined and they always do what their leaders tell them to do. :):):):):):)

PS. So, is there any other name that Germans have for Regained Territory? :):):)
pawian   
16 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

The underlying cause could have been partially compensating Poland for the loss of her eastern territories to Russia and weakening Germany at the same time, but not reparations to Poland.

Everything what you say is true. But it refers to 1945 Potsdam conference which set new borders.

Underneath, in 21 century, in this Polish forums, in my replies to Palivec and The Other, there is this notion:

and what German government said about it:

I hope you understand my idea. No need to dig further into it. It would be a loss of time as I stick to my opinion and am not going to change it. :):):)
pawian   
16 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

It had nothing to do with any German reparation to Poland.

Actually, it did. Informally, though, but did. :):) Look below:

Private property can't be used as compensation since this form of expropriation is illegal.

Read how Prussian Trust lost the case for the ex German property in 2008.

and what German government said about it:

Contributory factors to the special quality of relations between Germany and Poland include the former's unconditional admission of guilt for the Second World War and its renouncement of subsequent material claims after the war. The Federal Government supports neither private restitution claims by expellees nor complaints like that submitted by the private Prussian Trust to the European Court of Human Rights. Federal Chancellor Merkel has repeatedly reaffirmed this position. (The German Federal Foreign Office, October 2008).[7]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Trust

PS. I found sth funny. The Polish entry Regained Lands has no German version. :):):)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziemie_Odzyskane
Are Germans still indignant about it or what???
pawian   
16 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

Private property can't be used as compensation since this form of expropriation is illegal.

I am so sorry there were some illegal acts after WW2. :):):):) I hope it doesn`t spoil good Polish German relations??? :):):)
pawian   
14 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Jews? [593]

pawian: I am not going to answer this highly provocative question.

Why "provocative"?? :)

You see? I only wrote:

Ok. Quite a number of Poles with Jewish roots, after a period of fascination with communism, stood up and resisted the system. Geremek was one of them.

and right away rabid right wing nationalists took voice:

Ok. Quite a number of Poles with Jewish roots, after a period of fascination with communism, stood up and resisted the system.

Jacek Kuroń

In 1955 a Discussion Club Krzywe Koło (KK - Crooked Circle) was established. Jacek Kuroń and Karol Modzelewski were among the most prominent members of the club. In 1957 Kuroń graduated from the Faculty of History at the University of Warsaw. In 1964, together with Karol Modzelewski, he wrote The Open Letter to the Party. In this letter he criticized a new ruling and bureaucratic class. He suggested replacing the existing system with workers' democracy, including organizing a referendum according to which major decisions concerning a distribution of national income would be made.

In communist detention in 1982 in Poland - the middle:
pawian   
14 Feb 2013
Travel / Completely random views of Poland, a co! [80]

Pure resort, I would say.

:):):)
It would be funny if it wasn`t so tragic. Don`t be silly.

Where were all this good founded NGOs with their stupid posters in that time?

First, read one or two history books on Poland in 1980s. Only then you can talk about stupidity.

But you won`t when you read those books. What a paradox, isn`t it??? :):):)

Ash Wednesday in Krakow

Penance Zone

Poland Holiday

Road in Poland
pawian   
14 Feb 2013
History / What do Poles owe to Jews? [593]

All right then, what about Bronisław Geremek?

Ok. Quite a number of Poles with Jewish roots, after a period of fascination with communism, stood up and resisted the system. Geremek was one of them.

In 1950 Geremek joined the Polish United Workers' Party (PZPR). He was the second secretary of the Basic Party Organisation (POP) of the PZPR at Warsaw University. In 1968, however, he withdrew from the party in protest against the Warsaw Pact's invasion of Czechoslovakia.

In the 1970s Geremek was considered one of the leading figures in the Polish democratic opposition. In 1978 he co-founded the Society for Educational Courses, for which he gave lectures.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategoria:Polscy_%C5%BBydzi
pawian   
13 Feb 2013
Travel / Completely random views of Poland, a co! [80]

Beksa!

Why black and white???

Krakow, located in a giant valley among high hills, deprived of natural wind circulation, is one of the most polluted cities in Poland.
Campaign slogan: We want to breathe.

Breathe Poland