Life / Poles are not racist [873]


Yes, this. I'd rather the West didn't project their issues on us - as you wrote, we have enough of our own lol


Yes, very self-centered, arrogant and controlling, imho.


No, they weren't.

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


In order to be fair and objective and in order not to cause anti-Polish prejudice. Polish media somehow bothered to explain where this outrage in the West is coming from, they explained the "blackface history" to Polish readers.


That's not true. They wrote about the "outrage" this performance caused, some articles even quoted comments of internet users ("cherrypicked", I'm sure lol).


You're such an a$$hole, jon357. You know very well that I'm not that kind of person and this topic was brought up by the most pro-black person on this forum - by pawian. If he didn't write about it, I'm not even sure if I'd hear about this controversy and know what "blackface" is.

Life / Poles are not racist [873]

@amiga500, The Guardian wrote about it on Tuesday already:

theguardian.com/music/2023/sep/12/polish-tv-talent-show-contestants-use-blackface-for-kendrick-lamar-beyonce-performances


Done by the UK and American press without explaining the differences between how it's viewed in Poland and in the US/UK.


First of all, that's not a decent, but an ignorant opinion, imho.
Secondly, I haven't seen a proof so far of that being an opinion of the majority of black people around the world.


But your opinion is? lol

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


First of all, I only googled "blackface in Polish TV" and that's what came up, among others.
Secondly, I presented opinions to you that are in the opposition to yours, to stress that point that, indeed, there is a diversity of opinions concerning this matter. You claimed that "on the whole, 'blacking up' is seen negatively", but I don't see that in the comments. There are a lot of sensible comments there that I agree with.


Sorry, but I don't understand what's your point here.


There was nothing disrespectful about that guy's performance. On the contrary. That's the point.

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


Yes, there is:

reddit.com/r/news/comments/16gps4l/outrage_as_polish_tv_talent_show_contestants_use/

"masalion
As a brown dude, I don't get it. If you're offended by people using your skin color in a non-derogatory way, aren't you implying that looking like you is somehow bad?

I love being brown, and if other people want a piece of that action, go ahead imo."

"fuckin_normie
There is a difference between using blackface as a mockery because you're racist, and making yourself look like the person you idolize. It's literally the same thing as dressing up as your favourite actor. Please let's not just put everything under one umbrella. Intentions matter"

"DWS223
Given that the United States is not the world and given that Poland's history is very different then our own, would it not be reasonable that "blackface" in Poland doesn't have the same racist connotations that it has here in the US?

Also it sounds like the whole controversy is just a handful of social media trolls. Is this even really news?"

"CopyPasteCliche
Can we take into consideration the fact that it wasn't used to mock the race but make artist appear more similar to them? It's the whole point of this ****** show.

Also I love how we are just exporting issues from US and pretend they are worldwide.

Aight downvote me now. Peace."

There are more comments like this.


Are you sure that "on the whole"? Where exactly? In Africa? Or only in the West?


And ignorant and pretty self-centered/insane to me, tbh.

History / Ulma family beatified for heroic Christianity during WW2 [35]


That's a RuSSian party then lol

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


Pawian quoted a black guy from the comments on YouTube who has exactly the same view of that performance as Nick Sinckler does. So, I suspect there are more black people out there who would agree with him too.


By "associating" I meant making friends with such people or supporting their views.
As for our PF racists then I discuss and argue with them and not "associate" myself with them.


As I wrote already - Poland has a different history and different take on this. Whether a Polish TV show will take into account sensibilities from "across the pond" - I don't know, I guess we'll see. I personally think it would be taking it a bit too far and I'd rather have a discussion with black people about this than a total ban on white people performing as black artists.

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


It clearly does - read Nick Sinckler's reaction.


Those are not the kind of people I'd like to associate myself with though. Would you?


I can't admit it, because I don't agree with your take on this. I don't see it as a mistake or that there's something wrong with it. I'm with Nick Sinckler on this - I view it exactly the way he does. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


I'd say that the effect should depend on the intent.

A black contestant of the show, Nick Sinckler, defends that performance:

"I can see them celebrating greatness that we've introduced into the world. If you can't see a difference between ridiculing/mocking and paying tribute to wonderful black artists whose music influenced the world... then that's your problem, not mine."

Source:

rozrywka.spidersweb.pl/twoja-twarz-brzmi-znajomo-2023-szmajkowski-humble-blackface-rasizm-polsat


There's nothing "inane" about this, considering this is the point of that TV show - impersonating singers.


Why? If a man can impersonate a female singer on that show then why can't a white man impersonate a black singer? Here's that Nick Sinckler that I quoted earlier impersonating a female singer on the show - Libianca:



I somehow can't hear anyone in the West complaining about this :))

But I suppose a man pretending to be a woman would offend RuSSian sensitivities this time lol 🤦

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


Or maybe that was "Alternatywy 4"... 🤔 But I'm pretty sure there was a "black guy" or someone who was supposed to have a darker complexion in "Zmiennicy" too.

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


Yes, exactly, I remember that too :)) There were those TV series from communist times called "Zmiennicy" about a woman pretending to be a man in order to be a taxi driver or something and I remember that there was a "black guy" character there at some point (I remembered it, because it was so unusual). He was supposed to be a foreigner, an American I think, but it was pretty obvious that it was a Polish actor with a make up. I'm guessing that they simply didn't have a black actor speaking Polish with an American accent at that time :) ;))

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


I'm guessing that it's because they don't know what this TV show is about. And if they know and still have a problem with it then it must stem from the American issues connected to slavery, racial segregation, etc. Not a Polish problem, imho.


I disagree. There was no I'll intent behind it, so I see no problem.


Perhaps "most places" have more black people that could compete in such a TV show - Poland doesn't. We also have a different history than the US and Western countries - we have no history of colonisation of Africa and enslaving their people. There was also no tradition in Poland of using "blackface" make up to ridicule black people, as far as I am aware.

Also, sorry, but this is hypocrisy - if a black girl can play a role of a white Disney character in a movie in the US ("The Little Mermaid"), then why a Polish guy can't impersonate a black singer in Poland? This is crazy.

Life / Poles are not racist [873]


But that's the point of this TV show - the contestants are supposed impersonate various singers both vocally and visually lol 🤦

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


Holy sh1t... I thought she's much younger than this... You don't have much time left of her being a kid then... Use this time well...


That's amazing, I'm happy for your family, especially for the kids :)))


You wouldn't have time for that with those working hours anyway :P Better focus on your kids...

Just a thought - you could do some family cooking on the weekend sometimes though, all four of you - it could be fun and some bonding time with the kids and happy memories for them :) I still remember how me and my brother were helping our parents to chop veggies for sałatka jarzynowa and helping with making cakes for Christmas. (Sorry for writing about such obvious things, but I get the impression that parents are often oblivious to the most obvious things...)

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


How about both spouses work 1 job each and share chores and raise kids.


Why men don't want to do them then? lol


You would say that, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


I never wrote whether I like it or not. And every country usually has its pluses and minuses.


You think that now... What about your kids? Wouldn't your daughter be more happy if she got to spend more time with you rather than go to a private school? The girl's relationship with her father is very important for her future relationships with men (and not only) and her self-esteem. We'll see how your kids will fare in the future, I guess...


First and foremost I don't need to have a family of my own to know what it's like to be a kid and how important a relationship with their father is for kids, especially for girls. I'm saying this from my own experience.

And I'm not saying this to put you down, Kania. It's just I'm not sure if you realise how important you are for your children...

I just don't want you to screw it up.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


No, I am not :(


So f*cking sad...




Yeah, and their kids seem so happy, right... Not suicidal at all... lol

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


Oh God, I knew it... I knew it! lol No wonder you "can't understand" why women don't want to have kids or that they don't want to have many of them, or why they would want for men to share duties more, etc. That's because you've not been raising your own kids, your wife is doing that for you. You were barely spending any time with your kids.


That's sad, to be honest... But who needs fathers, I guess... o_O

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


But both of us can work :))) You seem to fixate only on the guy's earnings.


But I don't consider people who can't afford to send their kids to good private schools and kindergarten and a two-storey apartment in a big city to be poor lol

I went to a public school myself, there are plenty of good public schools in Poland. You're being too dramatic, imho :)


Kania, there are professions in Poland that demand a lot of hard work, skills and expertise from people and at the same time don't pay much. And those are socially needed professions. You wouldn't call those guys "Ferdynand Kiepski", trust me.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


Then maybe the laws will change then and they will reflect the new reality.


Majority of women aren't lazy or "lazying about". Far from it.


I've already explained what are the sane and practical reasons for it here:

https://polishforums.com/news/parliamentary-elections-87850/12/#msg1928296

As for conscription to the military - the situation in Israel is completely different than in Poland - Israel is pretty much in a permanent state of military conflict/threat.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


I feel the same as Lenka.


Well, that would mean you and your wife got what you deserved too :))) Different strokes for different folks, I guess :))

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


Yes, because you talk nonsense. The fact that a guy has one job doesn't make him "a bum" or "margines społeczny", especially if his wife works too. What on Earth is wrong with you? o_O


Yup, it's the same where I live and it's considered to be perfectly normal and has nothing to do with any patologia lol


Exactly.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


It looks like today also.


Yeah and that's why usually both husband and wife work. And it looks like that it happens that even if one of them earns enough (my impression is that dentists with a private practice earn a lot even in Kielce) both work anyway.


Don't be silly, unless you have proof that women take care of finances in Polska "B" and men in Polska "A" :))) Besides, in majority of Japanese families it's the women who take care of finances and I wouldn't call Japan a "B" country.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]

And it doesn't matter if it's a married couple of factory workers, or dentists, for example. In fact, there's one married couple of dentists who run their private practice together not far away from where I live, another married couple of dentists in the Kielce city center and there's also a married couple of a dentist and an eye doctor that run their own place together too.


Why? Their wives don't have jobs?

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


It looks like it is in Poland, Kania. I'm saying this based not only on the articles I've read, etc. but also observation in real life.


Um... The wives of men in Kielce usually have jobs too (so men don't have to work 2 or 1.5 jobs) o_O

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


You mean childless? Because there are women who are single with kids and married couples who have no kids, you know :)))

That's a minority of women though and my guess is that such women usually have more strength and will to work longer than women who have kids.

But, yeah, I think that could be changed - and childless women should have the same retirement age as men. The problem is - they still would be the ones to take care of elderly parents, even if childless.


That's one of the reasons. Another is because they live longer. Didn't you read the article I linked to?


All my life I don't think I've ever known any man like that in Poland.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


I disagree it's "very unfair", at least in Poland, because:

1. Women in Poland usually have two jobs - one outside of home and another one - at home. Thus they're more exploited than men.

2. It's usually the grandmothers that take care of grandchildren when their parents are at work and it's usually women who take care of elderly parents, so they fulfill an important role in the society (and in order to be able to do that they have to be retired).

So, in order for women and men to have the same retirement age, in my opinion, they would have to have the same share of the burdens that society puts on them (or women should be relieved of their burdens). Maybe that will happen one day, but that's not what I'm usually seeing in Poland. So, for now, not only is women's life harder, but they also have to live longer for less money than men. Nothing to be envied, imho.


And this is one of the reasons why women get lower retirement pay than men in Poland. So, is that "unfair" too?:

biznes.interia.pl/emerytury/news-kobiety-dostaja-nizsze-emerytury-od-mezczyzn-zus-ma-wytlumac,nId,6561114

UK, Ireland / The "Paracetamol Myth" - Polish people hesitate to visit UK doctors. [51]

@Bobko, I guess it's the same in Poland then - "sanatoriums" are still a thing here too.


...is that hospitals are for diagnosing and treating people and saving lives, while spas offer some treatments that can improve your health/condition somewhat and help you relax, but that's it. I'd say that in Poland the word "spa" is often associated with beautifying treatments and relaxation. If you want to improve your health (and relax) you go to a "sanatorium".


Yes, as I already wrote - it does happen, but if it is needed. As in - it's about health and not about staying at the hospital, because you "enjoy being looked after", as Bobko put it. And you would have to pull some strings (or pay a big bribe, I guess) in order to "overstay" in a Polish hospital.


Only from the "Maxi Kaz" song :))) ;D

I think the only sanatoria places that I visited were Busko-Zdrój and Krynica-Zdrój, but I've been there as a tourist, not a patient.

UK, Ireland / The "Paracetamol Myth" - Polish people hesitate to visit UK doctors. [51]


He asked: "Do Poles check into hospitals as if it were a spa in the south of France?"
His question was pretty straightforward and your answer was somewhat confusing, so I cleared it out.

You wrote this...:


...which isn't really the case. I mean, sometimes it happens that someone isn't well yet and some people have connections and they pull some strings to get the needed care for longer. One of the most shocking cases I've heard of is the one of Witek's husband lying for months on ICU. But generally, judging by what Bobko wrote, in Poland it's different than in RuSSia - Poles don't treat hospitals like some spa. I'd say it's the sanitariums mentioned by you that are treated in this way, if anything.

UK, Ireland / The "Paracetamol Myth" - Polish people hesitate to visit UK doctors. [51]


Why...? o_O


Defenitely not. You want to get out of a Polish hospital as soon as your condition/health allows for that lol Apart, maybe (to some extent, at least) from elderly people who live alone - at the hospital they have company then.


Sanitarium isn't the same as hospital though and Bobko was asking about hospitals.