Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Somehow , I doubt a foreigner wrote such graffiti. Worth mentioning though that most nationalists/racists are both uneducated and rather stupid.


Spot on. The guy you were replying to didn't take into account the rural/urban split.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


All words rhyme with something.


So in fact it's purely nationalistic - you think that the view of someone who was born elsewhere is less valid than yours. There was a time when the Polish language was used over a wide are by a lot of people. Then its use declined. Now that decline is partly reversing - whether or not you like the changes that brings.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

So in fact, you don't like that your language is changing and that cultural influences sometimes originate from people outside your country.

Really, you can get as irritated as you want - while language changes anyway.

Language / Extremely Hard - Polish the hardest language to learn [226]

Spot on.

Anyway, the answer to the question 'Which language is the hardest?' is another question. Hardest for whom?

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

That's his right. He's a strange person.


That happens anyway without people 'inventing' anything. Maybe you'd prefer Polish to be frozen like Latin on the day you emigrated.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

That, doesn't mean they're right - it only means that there are several people online with an opinion There are plenty of people who speak Polish (of whatever nationality) who avoid the word.

But hey, since you don't think that words that originally were neutral in tone offend, Lenka, I'm sure you and the various Pol=Ams here don't mind being referred to as Pollacks.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


There you go again, talking about history as if people live in the past and as if the current nuance of a word is predicated entirely by the past.


Come to Poland and have a look. Down the road from me there's a wall with 'Murzyny do drewa' and 'Zydzi won' written on.

But then again, you prefer to live somewhere where people are a rather more careful about the words they use.

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Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

More people with good manners not wanting to offend. It's irrelevant how a word was once perceived; it's when it starts appearing on graffiti that decent people unconsciously start to avoid it.

Genealogy / Online access to public / parish records search in Poland? [20]

One issue is that a lot of records didn't survive WW2 and therefore can't appear online. Another is that Ancestry.com depends on people who've got the records (usually the Mormon church) making them available to go online.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


No. Those who update them do it anyway. And they are generally fairly worldly.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Dictionaries are constantly rewritten anyway to reflect the way languages constantly change. They're a picture of a language, not a book of rules.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Far from it. See the dictionary definition above.


'we'??? So you're one of the gatekeepers of a language now - something even the Academie Francaise can't manage. Then again, I remember you saying that 'we' want a particular political party to be in office however the electorate evidently think otherwise.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

It's changing whether you like it or you don't. Unless PL does a North Korea (where the language has ossified compared with the south to the point that the young people of Pyongyang sound like old folks to the South Koreans) and isolate itself from cultural influences.

But you'd probably like Ciemnogrod.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


That reminds me so much of the people about 20 or 30 years ago who used to grumble bitterly about the word 'gay', complaining that "a perfectly good word has been ruined". Emphases do change and most people when speaking do not wish to consciously offend. There are doubtless people who still say 'murzyn' without picking up on that - but as time goes on they are getting fewer and fewer.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


So does the 'n' word when push comes to shove. As I remember, the person who first advised me not to say the 'm' word has a doctorate in Polish philology.


So in fact you don't say it. Nor do I.

We can use a traditional noun for Germans, Italians, British people, French people etc. If however a group of people has had a particularly rough deal - then there's every reason to be careful about how we describe them. There's enough grumbling on this forum from Pol-Ams who dislike the word Pollack and with good reason. Like the word 'Murzyn', neither started out as offensive or insulting, however emphases change.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Probably from those Polish people who advised us not to use it in polite speech.

So Lenka, would you use it to a black person's face while visiting their home?

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Not really. I wonder how many people in Poland would use it to a black person's face while visiting their home? In Warsaw at least, I suspect it'd be very few.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Exactly. the tone of the word has changed along with society. In PL, we no longer live in an isolated bubble.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Oddly enough, I don't come from one and I don't live in one, but go on making assumptions based on your life experience, why not. Especially if you don't have any point to make.


Again, more assumptions - one of the silliest being that there's such a thing as a 'typical Polish household'. Though for the length of time, you're almost right.


And as ever, said wrongly. You'd actually be quite surprised if you knew.

As I say, you're either very out of touch with what happens in PL and how people speak, or you're trying to push some sort of agenda.

You say the word isn't perjorative. I wonder if the people who spray racist graffiti imagine they're being linguistically neutral when they use it.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Well, this is a discussion forum.


Youhave been away a long time, haven't you. We hear kurwa boys using it and see the racist graffiti daily.


No such thing as a 'typical Polish family', and you certainly wouldn't hear it in my home. Not that recent, either.

Then again, if all you're used to is villages, perhaps you used to hear it. Nowadays people only use it perjoratively. As I said in the first place.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


It is only used perjoratively nowadays.


We don't have that word in other languages. The nearest cognate is 'moor' which is archaic.



So you're contradicting yourself. Thank you for agreeing with my point that it has a negative use.


Or perhaps direct experience of hearing it used at home in Poland. It is used negatively and urban educated people avoid it.

You seem to think that the Polish language is timeless and unchanging (it is not and never has been) or frozen in time on the day you emigrated.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Your post is among the more bizarre and ill-informed on this matter here. A lot of sweeping generalisations too "Poles don't like..." as if all 40 million share the same views.

By the way, the roots of a word can be completely neutral however that has no bearing at all on whether its contemporary use is neutral, and vice versa.

You seem to be trying to excuse something.

Genealogy / Russian Poland-what general area would this be? [30]

It's a huge area - this map shows how big:

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History / What Hitler really thought about Poles? Hitler's letter to Himmler 1944 [111]

There were those who were extremely decent and brave and who risked (and lost) their and their families' lives doing that and there were those who denounced and even killed Jewish people. We are however talking about extremes - most people weren't in a position to do the former and too decent to do the latter. The issue isn't as simple as you'd like it to be.


Remember more Jewish people were Poles than citizens of anywhere else.

History / Kashubians are nation in Poland? [124]


Identity today isn't based on ancient tribes.


Some choose not to - that is their right. Hard to know what you mean by 'pure Polish identity' (why the capitals?) since Polish is a living and evolving language not an ossified ancestral one.. Were you to get a time machine and go to those tribes you mention you and they would have nothing to say to each other and no common recognisable language to do it in - even a few generations back, you'd have a pretty hard time making yourself understood.


Aside from the fact that 'nobles' isn't a good translation of szlachta who made up between 12 and 18% of the population, how would your relatives impact on anyone else's cultural identity or they on yours?

History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [239]

His private life is his business and his separation and second family are not unique.

Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]

If it's a lady driver who's caused offence sometimes male drivers shout "Ty ruro".

Better to chill out though for your own safety as well as that of others.

Food / Origin of the pierogi [127]

My local bar (about as traditional as it gets) is now doing them with feta and spinach! They still use the fried lumps of fat though.

Travel / Where do Polish people fly to for beach vacations in the winter? [34]

The flights to sunny places from Warsaw are jammed with tourists - plenty do take a winter break from PL. Until last year, Egypt, especially Hurghada was a popular choice for people from Russia and Poland.

Life / Pączki Day--do Dunkin Donuts or Krispy Kreme count? [39]


Only if you can't get the real thing.


Many are - rose marmalade ones are nice. Some are filled with custard, Nutella etc.
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