History / Sin of omission against Poland (Uprising ignored by Britannica) [25]


- has just declared another Brit Bully.
If the Warsaw Uprising wasn't "important", as you say, why does Britannica omit Yorkshire Day celebrated on 1 August, too, which is an extremely important event in the world?

History / Sin of omission against Poland (Uprising ignored by Britannica) [25]


This is more than disgusting. Only the crappy Britannica is able to do so. How did these newly founded "Brit Bullies" of Chicago come to the conclusion to omit the Warsaw Uprising?

On the other hand, a new book on the Warsaw Uprising by a Canadian researcher appeared in bookshops quite recently.

Law / Buying a USED CAR in Poland, my personal experiences and TRAPS to avoid !! [133]


23 years is an awful lot! Some consolation for you may arise from the fact that out of these as many as 21 years passed without the Kaczyński brothers in power...

Off-Topic / Are Polish Christians here? [144]

God was evidently wrong creating Poland. God should have created the big and fat Germany from the very start, so the Germans wouldn't have to push towards the East in their famous "Drang nach Osten" march to find more "Lebensraum" in the Slavic lands. Only recently, the Poles have begun a "Drang nach Westen" to flood Britain with immigrants drawing social benefits, by passing over Germany. God save the Queen!

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]


I think you misinterpret things very much. The reason why immigrants are flooding to Italy or elsewhere in Europe are mainly economic and political and not religious. Many illigal immigrants escape from the violent stance of Muslim fanatics (bringing more and more poverty onto them) such as ISIS so it is not necessarily the European Council which is "destroying" European societies with illegal immigrants.

You also forget the fact that the bulk of Muslim populations in European countries are descendants of legal immigrants who came to Europe in times of prosperity to do work which the Europeans preferred not to do (like, among others, toilet cleaning). At those times the European Council did not even exist. The multi-culti policies have failed ever since and this is openly acknowledged by European governments now.

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]



Indeed, clipped. But it still may be purposely archaic. The -u is the archaic ending of the singular masculine dativ (celownik) which has survived until today in several common nouns: ojc-u, brat-u, księci-u, księdz-u, ps-u, kot-u and in others. In biblical language they would say "ojcu twemu", but in contemporary Polish it would be "twojemu ojcu".

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]


This one is interesting. Back in the communist times you would often see the former on the door of a small shop when the shop assistant was leaving the place for some unknown reason (the equivalents of this highly strange message - typical for the Polish People's Republic - were "wyszłam na pocztę" or "wyszłam do banku"). Ewa Bem once sang an amusing song whose first verse played those words: "Wyszłam za mąż, zaraz wracam" (and since in real life she did marry shortly before this song was released, the family of her husband took offence after hearing this song on the radio).



"Ponalewał" rather than "nalał" is likely to be used in the literary works of the past. Henryk Sienkiewicz would certainly feel inclined to use it! Since both mean exactly the same, in the contemporary spoken language you will most often hear the shorter form of the verb.

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]

I'm not complicating things, nothing of the kind. The law must be consistent and compatible, otherwise things may get confused and settling problems between people becomes impossible. You cannot always replace the word "father" and "mother" with the word "parent" because in the vast majority of legally married couples one parent becomes pregnant for nine months and gives birth to the child in the purely biological act which is why this parent is called "mother" to distinguish it from the other parent which must be called by some other name ("father" in our case). Different legal implications may arise from these biological issues, so the law must simply abide by those old-fashioned and somewhat "complicated" terms. The law has simply no other choice, just as you have no other choice than to abide by the law of gravity which tells you that the planet Earth is far stronger than you with the result that you will be crashed to death if you jump out of the window of the top floor of a skycraper.

As simple as that and modern concepts of the same-sex marriage pushed into the existing frames cannot change the biological reality of our world which world is far stronger than us. Sorry!

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]


Why? This means that if one of the parents in the same-sex couple has been called "father", the other has to be called "mother". If this is not the case and both are referred to as "fathers", how would you solve any possible legal issues that could arise? If the same-sex mariage has been legalized, the concept of such a mariage should fit into the so-far existing bills which use the words: "mother" and "father". If you wanted to introduce, say, "father A" and "father B" terms, you would loose compatibility with the existing acts on marriage which do not use such terms. Beaurocracy, just the same as gravity, has its natural laws build into them which you cannot easily override by simply arguing that something is "ludicrous".

Feedback / Member warning system to prevent abuse / spam / off-topic posts [145]


I don't get what you are trying to say. Is it just irony or what? Private massages (PM) should be exempted from access for Admin and mods. I remember there was once a discussion on the PF in which Admin clearly said the forum administration have no access to PM's. I wonder what the PF rules say about it, if they say anything on the matter at all?

Technically, however, this should be feasible. The forum staff has access to members' posts which means they can override your password. A PM message is kind of a post, so they would have access to it.

Keep to the current topic please

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

And what is "gołodupiec" in English and in Russian?

History / How far did Kashubia extend? [8]

Basically you ask the same question again (Kashubian spread more into the east). No, it wasn't spread to the east beyond the Vistula. Individuals or families may have migrated to the right bank of the Vistula river (former East Prussia), but that is all to it. The big river such as Vistula used to be a big frontier. Kociewie dialect, as explained in the Polish part of the wikipedia, is a mixture of Polish and Kashubian language with the former constituing a bigger part of it (appearing as a result of the inflow of Polish colonists on the areas inhabited before by the Kashubian Pomeranians). Kashubian is more than a dialect of Polish, it is a language separate from Polish, although belonging to the same group of Western Slavic languages. If your ancestors said they were Kashubian it is sure that they were not Kociewiacy, but identified themselves as Kashubians. Moreover, they must have spoken Kashubian since if they didn't I'd say they wouldn't call themselves as such.

Language / Polish Language Exchange Thread [144]

It is hard to teach someone on the internet, even using Skype. A good self-teaching course is better, though a good one is often not available. For me TV courses are the best. There was one broadcast on the TVP "Polonia" chanel, maybe it is still available on their website?

History / How far did Kashubia extend? [8]

If you mean RYWA£D on the right bank of the Vistula river, that one has never been within the Kashubian region. Starogard Gdański, irrespectively of who lives there now, is historically Kashubian. Kashubian is the name the Pomeranian tribe were giving to themselves, whereas they were more widely known as "Pomeranians". In today's Poland people still call them "Kashubians" rather than "Pomeranians"

The Kashubian language has survived only on the territory which was on the Polish side of Pomerania before 1772 (the date of the first partition of Poland). A very small island (one or two villages) of the Kashubian-speaking minority survived as well in the former German Vorpommern province until the end of the Second World War. The rest were germanized over the centuries. The name "Cashubia" was first recorded on the 13-th or early 14-th century map showing the area south-east od Szczecin (Stettin), near the river Oder (Odra), so in the German Vorpommern province, according to the Polish historian of Kashubian origin, Gerard Labuda.

How far did Kashubia extend historically ? On the east to the river Vistula, beyond it lived the tribes of mediaeval Pussians. On the west definitely to the river Oder, maybe a little beyond it where they bordered the areas inhabited in the Middle Ages by the Slavic tribes of the so-called Polabian Slavs whose territories in turn extended to the river Elbe and almost to the town of Hamburg in the west.

What is the title of your book?

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]

Ah, the famous "busia" again! There was a time when the word became the landmark for the Polish Forum. From then on, the raison d'être of this forum was to attack relentleslly anyone who said that Kopernik, Frederic Chopin, Marie Curie and the word "busia" were Polish. And now you come up with such a discovery! I think you should send your pictures as soon as possible to PO Box 101, Mount Prospect, IL 60056, United States.

Po polsku / Polskie powiedzonka typu "Nie moja bajka"? [41]

Tu przypomniał mi się pewien dowcip. Najpierw zaczęto budować kolej, zwaną na początku 'drogą żelazną', na zachodzie Europy, potem ten pomysł dotarł też do Rosji. Wiadomo, że rozstaw torów rosyjskich jest szerszy niż torów europejskich. Dlaczego? Przed rozpoczęciem budowy pierwszej linii kolei w Rosji urzędnicy idą do cara i chcąc się upewnić czy imperialna Rosja nie powinna czasem okazać swojej wyższości wobec Zachodu, pytają:

- Czy tory kolei powinny mieć u nas ten sam rozstaw co na Zachodzie czy też Wasza Wysokość chce, żeby był on szerszy?
- Szerszy, a na chuj szerszy!? - odpowiada car.
Urzędnicy dosłownie rozumieją odpowiedź cara i w rezultacie rozstaw toru kolejowego w Rosji jest obecnie 'na chuj' szerszy od torów na Zachodzie.

Zagadka dla czytelników tego postu: oblicz długość urzędniczego chuja w Rosji na podstawie kalkulacji różnicy pomiędzy rozstawem torów kolejowych w Rosji i na Zachodzie.

Work / What is a good monthly salary for an English teacher in Poland? [124]


Most probably it won't incease your earning potential at all. Besides, what's the point in employing teachers of English in Poland once the BBC has this excellent teaching website - BBC Learning English. If only people were not so lazy, they could have mastered the English language with the help of the BBC without any need to pay anything to anyone.

Genealogy / Are Silesians people German/Germanic? [178]


You imply again that I have a problem fwith it while I have not. Didn't I say to you in the preceding post:


So where is the problem for me? On the contrary, it seems to be a problem for you since you said:


Just because ..! No, some Poles may indeed want to make them believe this, but definitely not many other Poles including myself and that native Oberschlesier who is professor and expert in linguistics and whom you have been ignoring all the time.

You put forward the stance of the Polish government which was not what you said, but even if it was, I don't think it would have mattered that much. "Regional language" may as well be some kind of bureacratic category which might match or not the real facts. If you read the Wiki page (unfortunately that part is in Polish only), you would know what the linguistic arguments for Silesian being the dialect of Polish are and why it cannot be considered as a dialect of Czech despite some evident Czech influences. "Regional language" may be just an administrative category, though I think it is accurate for the Kashubian language which is also a language of minority. So, as you can see, I look at it purely from the linguistic point of view rather than from the perspective of people for whom the status of "regional language" would have strengthen their claims for autonomy. Albeit I myself am very much for the regional autonomy of Upper Silesia (however surprising it may sound to you as a position of a "pure-blood Pole" as Harry pathetically calls me sometimes), I try not to confound language and autonomy, neither do I think that their dialect is likely to achieve that status of language very soon. One of the major obstacles is that there is no single dialect of Silesian, dialects in particular areas differ much from one another and there is no codyfied alphabet for it. The minority must first work hard on the literacy form of their dialect to bring upon it some characteristics of the language before crying loud that Silesian is a language.

Genealogy / Are Silesians people German/Germanic? [178]


Well, it is me, that's true. But, as an argument you put forward "the Polish government" as having recognized Silesian as a regional language as an argument. When shown to be wrong, you resort to "it doesn't change the fact that 500 000 declared Silesian as their native language". And indeed, the term as such may have been used in the questionnaire, but it doesn't mean at all that Silesian has the status of a language, be it even a regional language.

At the same time you completely ignore the opinion of someone who is a native Oberschlesier, is a professor of linguistics and commands three languages: Polish, German and Silesian (I myself use the term Silesian language for simplicication purposes). What is more to it, professor Jan Miodek is not politically motivated nor is he part of the PF tribal wars. And I did not say that for many Silesians it ishouldn't be a "language" (but not for all of them, I assure you!). I don't object to them calling it as such, so don't imply to me:


. Let them believe what they want to believe.

Sorry, Romek, but this is the way how you develop your arguments in the discussion. It is jolly amusing, but you seem to me just another clone of Harry who was, for example, ready to quarrell to the last drop of blood that "Murzyn" is a racist word in Polish, while in his profile he is giving the following answer to the question: Speaks [Polish]? - "No, not really. My passive Polish is far better than my active Polish" [before that he was answering this question by the simple "No"].

Genealogy / Are Silesians people German/Germanic? [178]



Have you checked your sources well?


Crow, what kind of slavicization do you have in mind: voluntary or imposed by force?

Genealogy / Are Silesians people German/Germanic? [178]

Why do you say "it is"? The question is disputed with, for example, Norman Davies, the British historian whose book on Breslau I found really good, saying it is, but with renown linguist Jan Miodek, he himself a true Oberschlesier, having perfect command of Polish, German and (Upper) Silesian (presently living in Wrocław, Lower Silesia, however) definitely saying that it is not.

The Upper Silesia autonomy activists say that it is, but anyone in sensible judgment knows that such an opinion is more politically than linguistically motivated. I can understand very well that they feel their identity is Silesian in opposition to being Polish, but let's not confound identity with language.

The town dialects of Silesian incorporate many German words that make it incomprehensible for a typical Polish person from outside of Silesia, but if you listen to samples of rural Silesian dialects from the Oppeln area, for example, a Polish person like me has the same degree of difficulty in understanding them as in the understanding of the rural dialects of Mazovia (I did this exercise with both dialects and neither you nor Norman Davies are going to convince me to the idea that Silesian, linguistically speaking, is a language separate from Polish).

Genealogy / Are Silesians people German/Germanic? [178]

Crow = That is wrong question. If Silesians feel for themselves to be Germanic, we can only conclude how they are Germanized.

The germanization of Slavic people in Silesia was a complex historical process. The Polish shauvinistic view is that the germanization of Silesians of Slavic origin was nearly always a forced one, while the German chauvinistic view is that it was nearly always "volontary", which means it was achieved in the natural process of assimilating a minority into the majority. The truth is that it was both.

I remember buying at the Central Station in Warsaw the "Schlesiche Nachrichten" newspaper back in the 1990s. The entire paper was in German, but a small space on the front page was entitled something like "Let's talk in our mother (Heimat) tongue now". While my German was far too weak to follow any of the articles in German, I could comprehend that article in the supposedly Silesian language with no difficulty whatsoever (some proof that Sileasian is not really a language separate from Polish). This bizzare story illustrates how complicated the Silesian identity may be: the German minority of Silesia publishing a paper in German, but revealing their true mother tongue to be fully comprehensible to a Pollish person born in Mazovia with no earlier affiliation to Silesia (except perhaps for two aunts in Wrocław/Breslau who moved there in the 1960s).

Feedback / Member warning system to prevent abuse / spam / off-topic posts [145]

And this is a very interesting question: how can ordinary members like Harry view someone else's IP?

History / MAP OF POLAND IN 1880'S [95]


It wasn't Poland at that time (1880). The nearest to the description of "Poland" was the 'Kingdom of Poland' which was formally in unity with Russia, but its autonomy was scraped long before that time. Nevertheless, the tsars of Russia retained the title of King of Poland until the collapse of the House of Romanov on the Russian throne.

Law / USD shooting up so high for PLN [76]


Monitor, I think it is pretty easy to make the financial simulation of it, if you had data on how much an avarage tourist spends in Poland. (Sorry, I cannot do it mysef as I'm usually too busy in the off-topic bin these days.)

Law / USD shooting up so high for PLN [76]



An interesting thing would be to know if the zloty moves along the same trajectory against the American dollar as the euro. If the CEB does its quantative easing and everything tells us that it will, would that mean that the Polish central bank would follow the move of the CEB soon? If not, the supply of zloties onto the market won't increase, while the supply of the euro will. That could lead to the PLN loosing against the dollar, but may perhaps result in its strenghtening to the euro in the longer run.

Life / Life in Poland for American who likes women, beer, hates Tories and is concerned about the weather [19]


If you hate the Tories, don't even think of coming to Poland. Being fond of the Tory Party is essential for Polish culture and we continue to worship Maggie T. as a Tory goddess to this very day.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


The article says that Hebrew teaching was banned in the sense that it had to be replaced with teaching in Yiddish.


Apparently, the Jewish people in East Galicia (and everyone else there including the Polish and the Ukrainians) were deprived of the value of their savings:

The repudiation of the Polish zloty by the Soviet authorities has hit the Jews, as well as others, severely since everyone had his savings in the Polish currency. Overnight the richest Jews became beggars through the effects of this decree.

Thus, it seems that only the American dollar is good for savings-keeping (but only in the drawers and not in banks as accounts may easily be confiscated - remember the recent example of the EU action in Cyprus). It would be interesting to compare what the article says about East Galicia with the situation in West Galicia which found itself on the western side of the Ribbentrop-Molotov line dividing Poland of 1939 into two parts: German-occupied and Soviet occupied. I think the German authorities let the Polish currency to continue in the Generalgouvernement (so in West Galicia) modyfying the design of banknotes, but their value had been steadily decreasing since October 1939 when the German ocupation began.

On a side note: my aunt who lives in West Galicia (and who happens to be of Jewish origin) had fallen victim of the repudiation of the old bank notes by the Bank of England some time after the WWII. She kept her savings in sterling once and she says she missed the date until which one could exchange them into new bank notes for free. I don't know how much of her story is true, however. Keep your savings in US dollars, anyway!

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]


I knew this topic would sooner or later emerge on the PF again (it is one of the most favourite topics here), so it is worthwhile to quote what the more serious Polish-Americans have to say about it:

Here's the link to this website: ampoleagle.com/busia-or-babcia-ongoing-controversy-p4400-125.htm

And here is the most essential part of that article:
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The authoritative multi-volume Słownik Języka Polskiego (dictionary) of Karłowicz, Kryński and Niedźwiedzki (Warsaw, 1905) lists the following forms: babka, babcia, babciutka, babeczka, babusia, babuś, babuchna, babunia, babuńcia, babuleńka and babulinka.The busia version is not among them.

That means that busia is a strictly Polish-American term part of an indigenous Polonian culture like polka music which is unknown in Poland. Nobody knows when, where and why the first American with Polish immigrant roots uttered the word busia. It could have originated as baby talk by someone too young to say babusia, one of the forms listed above. Whatever the case, it somehow caught on and can now be heard from the Eastern Seaboard to the West Coast, from the northern states down into Florida, Texas and the southwest.

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In my view, this is a very accurate and competent explanation. Notice that it evokes a rather old dictionary which means that even in the 19th century the word "busia" was unknown in Poland (I also doubt that it was known earlier). If the PF wants to continue to rant about "busia" for ages, that's their choice, but I am sure nothing more could have ever be disclosed on the subject.

History / Origins of Polish Slavs [139]


Such an argument is irrelevant. According to many specialists, those names are of Indoeuropean origin. If they are so old, we may say they may have been formed in a language which is now called the Proto-indoeuropean language. This language had splitted over time into many language groups, one of which was Proto-slavic (and earlier Balto-Slavic). If the Proto-slavic group (and language) has evolved in situ, that is on the territory of the present Poland or Ukraine or Belarus, their people may have retained the older Proto-indoeuropean names of rivers of that territory, while their own language has changed so much that none of those name resemble any word in any of the Slavic languages at present. Thus, "former inhabitants" may well had been the ancestors of the Slavic people themselves.


This is only partly true. That source identifies them as Slavs beyond doubt, though as far as I can remember it does not even use a name similar to "Slav/Slavic" (if you can quote this source precisely, I shall be grateful). Yet, ancient chroniclers name people living in Central and Eastern Europe befor 550 AD, but the problem is we cannot say for sure they were Slavs, neither we can say for sure they were not Slavs.