History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]


You're right - it would've been probably before the migration and up to the migration. From what I read, Sarmatia was pretty much done by 200. The local tribes most likely mixed with the Sarmatians quite a bit. It appears that the Sarmatian culture was dominant but did have some characteristics of the already local East German tribes. I think that the tribes would've had a Sarmatian dominant culture though. During the migration period we see those people then get further mixed during the migration period, settling into city-states, and ultimately being united to form a nation in 966.

Yeah there is very very few records about the Veneti, Gepids, etc. Most of what he have is from Roman and Greek politicians and military leaders as well as academics like Ptolemy. The interesting thing though is that their religion is thought to be very similar to Greek and Roman mythology. Like the god of lightning would've been Perun, based on Zeus/Jupiter. We do have some pagan traditions and rituals in Poland though to this day - there is one particular popular one that involves making a female like effigy and drowning her in a river or settling her ablaze.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

I don't know why people always get their panties all up a bunch about abortion - yeah it's sad but it's a necessary evil nonetheless. I didn't see anything about an abortion when the woman was raped and doesn't want to keep it in that website that OP posted - so I'm assuming you can't get an abortion either if a woman is raped or if you are unable to raise children. Sometimes an abortion is the lesser of two evils if you know you can't raise a child and that child's life will be awful or the father will never be there. Personally, if I were a woman in Poland and got pregnant because I was raped or very poor, I'd save everything I could to get an abortion in another country.


It's homing pigeons actually, or at least that's what we had.

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]

Sarmatia/Scythia was pretty much extinct by the time Poland had Lechtic tribes like the Polans, Silesians, Masovians let alone by the time Poland became a country in 966. Technically, Sarmatia was basically western Scythia but by the turn of common era, Sarmatian culture became a bit more dominant than the Scythian. The differences was basically a different supreme God and a larger role in society for woman than just cooking and making babies.

Around the 1st century, Sarmatia/Scythia was at its peak and it stretched up to the Wisla - so it is likely that they influenced the S.E. tribes of Poland (again, going by current modern day boundaries). So yes, Sarmatia probably did have a bit of influence on Poland and it looks like a revival occured around the time of the Commonwealth - perhaps especially since it included more south eastern lands that were traditionally Sarmatian strongholds. There is little to no evidence of Sarmatians living near the Odra or near the Baltic - those were East Germanic tribes like the Vandals and Norse/Germanic tribes like the Goths (Gotland in southern Sweden is thought to be the origin of the Goths).

Sarmatian culture is beautiful and I could understand why the nobles would implement it. They'd make a better impression adapting red boots, red cloaks, and intricate decorative weaponry as well as clothing would make a better impression than wearing barbarian type clothing and painting your skin blue. Plus ideas like religious tolerance, military technology, honoring ancestors, etc. helped with unifying the different cultures withint he society.

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]


It depends what time period you're talking about. Gernally, though Iran has always been the center of the Persian empire except for the periods it was under Macedonian and Mongol control and also conquered during the Islamic conquest of Persia.

Median/Archaemenid/Pathian/Sasanian empires stretched from Afghanistan/Pakistan regions to Turkey but always included modern day Iran.

Generally though, Persia = Iran... Persians = Iranians..

Yes, R1a is not that common in Iran but subclade R1a1 is. R1a is thought to have originated from that around the Iran-Pakistan-India area, went through Central Asia, Russia, then finally Eastern Europe. There are many Poles and East Germans that are R1a1 as well as Pashtuns, Bedoins in Kuwaits, many Turks, and Iranian - however R1a isn't found there except for a small incidence in northern Iran. There's not many Europeans west of Poland that have R1a - most people in like France, Spain, Britain, etc. are R1b.

The largest R1a presense is seen in West Bengal Brahmins and north Indian Brahmins (technically castes) from India, Krygyz, certain Tajiks, Poles, Russians, and Ukranians. R1a-M458 is especially common in modern day Poland, Czech, Slovakia, Austria (surprisingly), and Ukraine. It's highest prevalence though is in the area of Poland, Czech Republic, part of S.E. Germany, and Slovakia - especially near rivers going to the Baltic. M458 however does have a small incidence in Turkey and the Caucasus.

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]

Here is a distribution of Halpogroup R1a. 50%+ of Poles have this halpogroup in the DNA. It is widely believed that R1a originated from Iran.

• 
  r1a.png
  

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]


Sorry meant Elam which was basically the parallel to Sumer - general Mesopotamia area. You're right Sumeria was more Iraq near the Tigris and Eurphrates with Ur I believe being their largest city. However, much of the info that we know about proto-Persia actually comes from Sumerian writings like the Sumerian Kings List. Elam later became the Archamenid empire and later the Median empire. This general area was very very civilized compared to the rest of the world, especially Europe which was still mostly living as hunter gathers with no fortifications,


I know - I'm talking about the people who existed in those times in pre-966 Poland.


Partially true. There is a bit of debate in this. The culture that would've existed in Poland, again going by modern day borders, would've been the Lusatians which were all over Poland, but developed originally in Lodz, and later became the Pomeranians that lived between the Odra and Wisla which mixed with the Przeworsk culture (contained tribes like the East German Rugians and Lemovi) that was already there. Also, the Veneti, which became modern day Wends/Wendish culture, lived from the Wisla to the north up to Gdansk and are thought to be a Germanic/Batlic people. However, again, this is debatable because most of the tribes like the Gepids, Rugerians, Veneti (Wends), Goths, Vandals were all Germanic tribes. There is a lot of debate on what the ethnicity of the Lusatians is (the culture before the Pomeranians) but it is said that they developed from the earlier Trzciniec culture which is proto-Baltic-Slavic. However, it is said that the Lusatians, which the Trzciniec culture developed into, had many influences from Northern and Western European lands like the Nordic culture and also La Tene culture (ancient Celtic culture) which is more pre-French/Swiss/German.

Some tribes were allied with the Huns and fought against the Romans and other local tribes while some tribes were allied with the Romans and fought against the Huns. Like the Gepids constantly fought the Huns, but then allied with them around the time of Attila. When the Roman empire fell and the huns gained power there were many tribes who migrated westward out of fear resulting in further mixing and assimilation of tribes in Poland/East Germany. The Gepids for example though, like the Rugians, are thought to be a Germanic people and either related to the Goths or a subgroup of them, and they lived in lands that are modern day Poland.

There really isn't too much written records about the slavs aside from Romans and Greeks describing the people who would've lived in Poland. The writing they had aren't too good either - could be propoganda - but we were described as very violent, leaderless people, that were rather disorganized but nonetheless endured hardships and refused to be conquered and subjugated. Our looks included fair to lightly tan skin, very tall and strong, often blue eyes and a wide range of hair colors from blonde, brown, to red.

So in summary, there were a lot of influences on Poland before 966 - Scandinavian (possibly?) Goths, East German Vandals, possibly local Przeworsk (included East Germanic people like the Rugians - who originally came from Norway - means Rye in old norse and similar to rzyto in Polish), Scandinavian Jastorf who's languages became modern day Germanic languages, the Basternae (thought to be a Germanic people originally from northern Poland - lived in the Carpathian mountains as their northern borders and mostly around Dacia which is mostly modern day Romania, they had language similarities to the Sarmatians and were thought to be a tribe or subgroup of the Sarmatian Scythians - could be correct but could also be due to assimilation)

Due to the lack of written records of this time period (unlike say Sumeria, Elam, Egypt) it is difficult to determine ethnicity for certain of these cultures. Researchers can only go by archaeology and cultural influences. Like for Lusatian culture we know they had Nordic influence by the types of bronze weapons and tools discovered but also possibly La Tene culture because of the decorative items and similarities of urns discovered in Poland were similar to those found in France, Austria, Germany, etc.

Here is an excellent source with a timeline of Poland history that goes from 9000 B.C. to the present:
historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/EasternPoland.htm#Vidivarii

If you are interested in learning more about Sarmatism in Poland there are many books on the topic. There's one called 'Sarmatians In The Polish Past'

As as Poland's pre-966 history, Tacitus and Ptolemy are probably the best written sources. Even they couldn't figure out the exact ethnicity of the people who lived in Poland (again, going by the modern boundaries) at the time but stated that they were similar in culture to the east Germans.

Here is a brief exerpt from a website:


everything.explained.today/Sarmatism

Here is an article from Tacitus around 100 AD describing the people that would've inhabited Eastern Europe - granted a bit east of Poland as during the 1st century most of the people that would've lived in modern day Poland would've been Vandals, Goths, Gepids, Rugians, etc. The Fenni and Veneti/Venedi lived a bit further east in Russia/Belarus but would've come closer to Poland throughout the european migration and also as the huns gained power.


The Romans, and especially the Greeks, didn't like the slavs very much because they'd constantly pillage their cities and destroy everything.

Ptolemy classes the Veneti/Venedi as being more closely located to the Baltic in the areas of Poland up to the Wisla in the 2nd century. A later author, Jordanes, states that the Veneti are the ancestors of Slavs and originated from around the Wisla and migrated outward.

There is so much mixing of tribes and movement in Poland from around 500 B.C. to 800 A.D. that it's nearly impossible to determine a single common ancestral group. The Veneti are oftentimes the most accepted - but even they, along with most of the others, are East Germanic people.

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]

Crow, ancient Iran was Persia and before that was Sumeria. The Scythians/Sarmatians were one of the many groups thay migrated out of this land.

The map above shows Poland in the 1st/2nd century c.e. The Sarmatians are located more near Ukraine, Hungary, etc. I'm sure there were some Sarmatians that came to Poland but they weren't the majority. Perhaps this thought and influence became more prevalent during the Commonwealth because Poland expanded to areas that use to be Sarmatian lands.

If anything most of the influence on pre Christian Poland during the migration period after the fall of Rome were Vandals, Goths, and other East German/Scandinavian/Baltic tribes like the Rugerians, Veneti (Wends) as cited by Ptolemy, Gepids, etc. Many of these tribes would end up fighting against the Huns and later allied with them during Atillas time.

The issue is that there is not much study into pre Christian Poland. Most Poles regard this as a dark pagan period, although Arianism was somewhat popular. Furthermore, there is not much archaeology aside from the Biskupin fortress and some iron tools left by the Vandals and Goths.

Crow I am familiar with the Etruscans, Thracians, Gauls, Kievan Rus, etc. I studied Latin for four years in high school and most of our lessons included translating historical texts, speeches, decrees, war diaries, etc.

History / What are Poland's pagan roots? [62]

I don't know why that one particular post got put in here because I don't think it has much to do with Poland's pagan roots - if I recall it was a response to Pol Attorney regarding something about priests...

Anyway, I wrote a pretty long article explaining Poland's pre-Christian past in the 'Sarmatian' thread. If you want to know more about proto-slavs, the tribes that lived in Poland prior to 966, the migration of cultures and groups in and out of Poland, check it out.

The way Poland's history as far as religion went is as follows:

pagan (people were mostly cremated - inhumations are rare) -> Arianism /pagan mix till 966 (different from Aryanism which is a racial ideology. Arianism is an early Christian belief that basically states that Jesus, as the son of God, is obedient to God the Father. Arianism faced much backlash and all but ended during the Council of Nicene which effectively eliminated Arianist beliefs under the threat of death) -> Christianity in 966 when Mieszko I converts from paganism to the version of Christianity as the Vatican dictates. This was widely a political move since it united the various tribes, prevented other Christian nations from attacking, and would serve as better ties among the more advanced nations in the area. Some Jews began to enter Poland since they were kicked out of almost every European country around the time of Kazimierz Wielki. He reaffirmed an old law passed nearly 100 years ago that prevented forced Christianization and Baptism of Jews, but it wasn't under Kazimierz Wielki that the Jews settled in massive numbers. Jan Matejko painted a famous painting of this. Then, some Tatar Muslims that were very loyal to Poland entered around the time of the Commonwealth. Poland had a huge Jewish population till WW2 when most were deported or killed. Presently, Poland is majority Catholic with small pockets of Jews, Protestants, and Tatar Muslims.

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]


That's because the Sarmatian were Iranian of descent.

So yes, modern Poles do have Iranian blood in them.

This is something that Hitler and the Nazis studied a lot and led many excavations into Persia, Pakistan, Iraq, India - those areas. That was the basis of their proto-Aryan race theories - which does have a lot of scientific and archeological backing.

See the thing is, migration spread throughout Europe as metallurgic technology spread. Poland and Germany was actually quite behind in this - we were entering the middle/late bronze age while the Turks and Romans were already in the Iron age.

Modern Poles consist of a mix of a bunch of different ancient groups. Some of the ones from pre-Christian Poland that existed in the late Bronze/early Iron age of that area included the Vandals, Goths, Gepids, Rugians, Vendi, Huns, Sarmatians (which lived in the western part of Scythia), Nordic cultures, Celts, etc. who then formed city-states/tribes like the Polans, Pomeranians, Veneti, Sorbs, Wends, Slovans, etc.

I'm sure there could have well been a Sarmatian revival during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as the Scythians were probably the largest and most powerful of the ancient cultures that were a part of modern Poland. There were a lot of revivals of old cultures during the Renaissance, Baroque, and Victorian periods. In Italy, the locals revived the old culture of their ancestor's - the Romans - in their art, writing, philosophy, architecture, etc. In Victorian England, it was fashionable to have Egyptian decorations in your home and even have a mummy in your living room. Perhaps Poland was trying to revive their old culture as well and they may have thought it would be better to emulate the Sarmatian Scythians than the Gepids who were thought of as lazy rowers or the other cultures that may were a little behind the times as far as metallurgy is concerned anyway.

However, when you speak of Sarmatians in general to most people that is an ancient culture that existed around the end of Rome' reign. They would've been more on the south eastern borders of Poland and I'd imagine the Sarmatians probably had more influence on countries like Ukraine, Serbia, Hungary, etc. I do know that the Hussars of Hungary shared a lot in common with the Hussars of Poland. To my understanding, the first Hussars were actually Serbs that fought under the banner of the Hungarians. Maybe Sarmatism became more popular as Poland's boundaries during the commonwealth stretched more towards the Black Sea - although I'd imagine this was most likely the nobles of the day that they had a proud, ancient culture.

I'm not an expert on pre-Christian Poland. However, the books and articles that I have read on this topic it would seem that the Vandals, Goths, Nordic, and East Germanic tribes had a bit more influence on the lands that include modern day Poland.

Again though, if I were a king in the commonwealth and doing some d**k sizing with Poland's neighbors, I'd pick the Sarmatians as my ancestors over a meandering group of barbarians such as Vandals, Goths, etc. too.

Here's what Poland would've looked like around 100-200 A.D. - keep in mind by the time of Mieszko I, and even the semi-legendary Popielec dynasty, these tribes would've intermingled and be known as the Veneti (north Poland), Polans (center), Pomeranians (Odra and Visla, anywhere near water - their name comes from 'of the sea' or people from the sea' - morze is modern day Polish for sea), Silesians/Sorbs (Silesia), etc.

The migration of these times is very impressive - if you look at this map you'll notice the Burgundians in Poland during this time period but several centuries later they were given their own kingdom in southern France/northern Italy - even known to this day as modern Burgundy.

• 
  rome.png
  

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]

What about it? Those are two different topics - Poland never really had an empire and the most amount of land they had was in the 1500's to 1600's. The period of Sarmatians and Scythians was nearly 1,000 years before this time period. Empire of Poland when I think of it is the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - that was the largest Poland ever was and at the time was the 4th largest country in Europe. Poland, stupidly, did not have any colonies in Africa, Asia, or other parts of the world which would've made them far richer instead of just relying on their agriculture based economy.

The Sarmatia to me is more the lands of like Ukraine, the Balkans, Hungary, Russia, etc. That era is way before Poland became an official country and was baptized in the 966. Sarmatian and Scythian culture existed around the end of the Roman empire and into the period right before Poland became a country. The Sarmatians and Scythians were one of the Iranian ancenstry groups that moved around during the great migration - of whom yes many settled in Poland, Germany, Hungary, etc.

There aren't too many records and few historical artifacts from pre-Christian Poland. In the B.C. era, like 3,000 B.C. to 2,000 B.C. most commonly Poland at the time was thought to be populated by the corded ware/battle ax culture - most of this was still stone age technology. Then came Trzciniec Culture in Poland during the early Bronze age. Then followed the Lusatian culture from around 1,000 B.C. to around 500 B.C. which would've been the middle Bronze age in Poland. The migration period in Europe began with Rome's decline and lasted from the the 1st century A.D. to around the 9th century A.D. - that's when you start seeing cultures like the Sarmatians and Scythians showing up in Poland. The area of Poland had a lot of different groups, including many foreign during the migration period, but due to the lack of artefacts or written records, there is a lot of uncertainty and debate in this topic.

Here is a brief timeline of some of the groups that are thought to have lived in Poland prior to 966 are as follows:

Battle Axe, Corded Ware Culture - 3,000 B.C. to around 2,000 B.C. - specifically the Globular Amphora Culture occupied the areas around modern day Warsaw. Mostly stone age.

Trzciniec culture - 2,000 to 1,000 B.C. - early Bronze age in Poland - more advanced domestication, farming, some very early metals arrive like gold, silver, bronze

Lusatian culture - 1,000 B.C. to 500 B.C. - middle Bronze age in Poland - pottery, fortifications, increased trade for metals like bronze from the south for Poland's amber along with some increased domestic production of copper/bronze

Here's where it starts to get confusing because of the migration of people from Rome, the migration of people from the Nordic countries, and the migration of the Scythians/Sarmatians, who are Iranian in origin: 500 B.C. to about 800 A.D.

Migration of Germanic and Nordic tribes in northern Poland (Goths) and Germanic tribes in Western Poland - around 500 B.C. to 100 A.D. all the way to further south by the

300/400 A.D. Period - this is where you see an intersection of cultures that arrived from Sweden and Germany mixing with those during the migration period after the fall of Rome along with the Scythians/Sarmatians and Vandals which arrived in Poland around 200-100 B.C. You begin to see cultures like the Oksywie (northern Baltic Poland to the Wisla - includes the Rugians), Wielbark (eastern Poland - Germanic - Goths, Veneti), Przeworsk (southern Poland - Vandals, later Burgundians) cultures. From the Wielbark culture you see other subgroups like the Goths, Rugians, Veleti, Veneti (which became the Wends from Pomeramia and are considered early Germanic-Slavic people) because they shared many of the same lands in northern and eastern Poland near the Wisla. These were mostly Germanic/Baltic cultures that were in Poland aside from Okyswie (which had some La Tene Culture characteristics, Central and Western Europe like from France to Czech, but north of Alps with some Celtic influence, and also later mixed with the Rugians and became the Pomeranians) who also mixed with the Przework culture which included the Vandals. This becomes very complicated because all these cultures intermingled quite a bit like the Oksywie (north of Alps, Central Europe) mingled with the German/Danish Rugians from the Wielbark culture and also mingled with the Vandals/Burgundians who were almost constantly on the move so it gets to be very complicated. Then come the Huns and Scythians from lands like Hungary into Poland too around the 300-500's mixing with the Burgundians - another mobile traveling group of people. Even the Roman emperors were confused as to what exactly the groups living in modern day Poland were because their culture was similar to the Germans but their language was different.

Migration period - 100 AD to 700/800 AD - Vandals (come from Scandinavia around 1st century AD, begin to form settlements in S.E. Poland/Czech/Silesian areas near the Odra) , Burgundians (around 1st century AD start showing up - formed part of Attila the Hun's army in 400 AD) but then later are given a kingdom near northern Italty/southern France... there was a ton of people on the move at this time in Europe, especially in the lands of Poland, the Kievan Rus, Germany, the Balkans, etc. There wasn't as much movement in France or England when compared to Central and Eastern Europe around this time period.

Around 800-1000 A.D. this group becomes collectively known as the Lechites (of which there is about 6 main groups and around 20 sub groups - all living in or around modern day Poland in various city-states and tribes) and the culture and language becomes more universal in modern day Poland. The piast dynasty, many of whom were pagan up until Christianization and also were named 'Lech' which is still a popular Polish name, and even the name of a Beer, united the tribes and city states of various lands like those in Silesia, Pomerania, etc. and hence that is how the name 'Lech' came from Lechites. This is where modern Poland begins to show up but again it really depends on what part of Poland because the culture in East Poland may differ from that in the north which would differ from that in the West. These cultures were mostly pagan up until Christianity spread and Poland became Christianized.

Hope that helps... when you speak of Sarmatians and Scythians that is a broad topic and that's just one of many groups and cultures that migrated into Poland during pre-Christian Poland.

News / Germany After the EU and the Russian Scenario - future of the European Union and Poland [310]

See Poland is a bad geopolitical spot. Poland has a long, complicated history with Russia which has included dozens of wars throughout the centuries. Poland just got out of Russian communist rule - even when I was living in Poland it was still Communist. (Quite frankly, we had it very good under Communism and never lacked for anything. If anything, life for us was more difficult in the years after Communist but that's beside the point.) Poland is weary of Germany also, because like Russia it has had many wars throughout history.

After the USSR collapsed and Poland was no longer a satellite nation, it chose to ally with NATO. Then Poland joined the EU. So Poland is now allied with the same neighbor that invaded it just 70 some years ago and the same countries that promised to help Poland but did next to nothing. This was smart at first because Poland needed new trading partners now that the USSR was dissolved and sought military allies so it kind of made sense. They basically picked the lesser of 2 evils. However, now Poland is a very wealthy nation - the 21st largest economy by GDP worth over $1 trillion. Yes, the EU helped with it a lot but Poland gave up a lot of it's political decisions and sovereignty in return for EU funds. Now Poland has to decide whether to continue to give into the EU's demands or forge it's own path. I don't think that Poland will totally back out of the EU because of all the trade with EU countries. I'd like to see Poland form stronger economic, political, and military ties with the Visegard 4, Serbia, Slovenia, Croatia, Ukraine, the Baltic states, and even perhaps Russia. Poland ought to focus more on its neighbors, especially those that are resisting EU hegemony. There's a lot of potential with trade between Poland and Russia especially with the sanctions. However, I feel that the EU would prevent Poland from taking advantage of the situation. The EU really has Poland by the balls but the governments of Poland, the Visegrad 4, and Russia are realizing that the EU, France, and Germany are in decline - especially because of this whole migrant mess.

Germany, France, and Belgium can't even protect their borders and their citizens anymore yet they dictate to Poland and the Visegard 4 what they should and shouldn't do.

News / Germany After the EU and the Russian Scenario - future of the European Union and Poland [310]

Poland's biggest trading partner is Germany though - 26% of Polish exports according to the source below. Hopefully they'll form better relations with the Visegard 4, Serbia, Russia, and the rest of Europe.

worldsrichestcountries.com/top_poland_exporters_trade_partners.html

The sanctions hurt Poland a bit since 5% of Polish exports go to Russia so it is several billion dollars that got affected. However, it's not like Poland would collapse because they couldn't export to Russia. Yes, it hurt a little but it's not like total devastation of the economy because of Russian sanctions.

History / What are Poland's pagan roots? [62]

It's funny because I know exactly what you're talking about. Priesthood is sometimes thought of as a good paying, financially rewarding career rather than a job to serve the community and the faith. I have two members in my family that are priests - both in small somewhat rural towns outside of Wroclaw. One lives it up, drives a Mercedes, drinks all the time, and makes bank by Polish standards. The other is a counselor to the community and is very liberal in the sense that he doesn't judge alcoholics, divorcees, etc.


Not exactly. Polish Catholics didn't suffer that much losses at the hands of other Catholics when compared to the losses they suffered against other nations' religions. Throughout Polish history, the largest battles and losses that Poland incurred were usually against Russians, Prussians, Austrians, and prior to the partitions the Turkish Muslims and their allies. Poland fought a huge war against the invading Turkish Muslims but hasn't faced a large Muslim force since really Jan Sobieski's time. They were repelled and their power gradually diminished with only little outposts in the Balkans by WW1 they were already the sick man of Europe . I would say that Poland suffered the most casualties against Russians throughout its history due to the near constant wars with Russia - some they won like the Polish-Soviet War (1919) and Livonian War (1550-1580's) and Polish-Moscow war (early 1600s) but many they lost like WW2 when Russia invaded from the East (and killed far more Polish Catholics than the Nazis and deported hundreds of thousands - some of which are still living in Siberia to this day), the November Uprising (around 40k Poles dead), Polish Russian War and other battles during the Partitions. Before the Partitions, the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was spanking Russia left and right - driving Hussar pikes up the butts up of Smolensk and Moscow residents regularly. Then Russia got revenge and was making Poland is beyotch till a bit after WW1 during the Polish- Soviet war when Poland repelled the Russians but didn't really gain territory.

Russia was predominantly Orthodox (and still is) during the time of the Partitions and into Bolshevik revolution. When Poland was fighting Russia again after WW1, The Orthodox church was in decline in Russia. It was still popular but the Bolsheviks leaders, who were often Jewish, wanted to do away with Orthodox church as it threatened their power and control. So most of the soldiers were 'athiest' or Orthodox that were lead by Bolshevik Jews such as Trostky, Lev Kamenev, Moshe Uritsky (Cheka chief) and so on.

So no, most war casualties throughout Poland's history weren't actually caused by other Catholics but more so by Orthodox if anything and also Protestants from German-Prussian lands and perhaps 'atheists' from Bolshevik and Soviet Russia - although I guess in the broad sense yes we do all share the same God, prophet and basic beliefs.

History / What are Poland's pagan roots? [62]

Paganism is a bit more popular in the Ukraine that in Poland. There are several churches that still hold pagan masses in dedication to Svetovid (or Swiatowit as known in Poland). Paganism isn't very popular though and even if say a group of individuals identified as pagan they'd most likely hide their faith and not practice openly as paganism is frowned upon due to the strength of the Catholic church in Poland. . There were some movements to like instill pre-Christian Slavic pride in Poland but again they were more popular in Ukraine and other places. (There's actually even a Svetovid worship/Ukranian pride center in the old neighborhood I grew up in Chicago.) Poland is a very Catholic country - paganism is frowned up and in fact the year that Poland was baptized is essentially thought of as the same time that Poland began to exist as a state. Paganism in Poland, pre-996, is thought of by most Poles as the ignorant, heathen, barbaric times of Poland's history. I don't agree with it and I wish there was more archaeology and research being conducted into Lusatian culture and this period in general but alas it is what it is. One popular historic site from this pagan time period is the Biskupin Fortress.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

There is a lot of speculation still on what did and didn't happen, whether there was a genocide or not, whether the 8,000 Srebnica figure is accurate and so on. I personally don't know whether there were real war crimes or not and this is a topic that should be investigated further by independent committees. I did follow these events very closely as this was really the first of many large international conflicts that the US would become involved in my lifetime. I'm certain there were abuses on all sides - Serbs, Croats, KLA, etc. I do however know that the U.S. media is very biased and a lot of the claims weren't based on proven evidence. The media would report that the reason they couldn't find the thousands of bodies outside of Srebnica is because they were supposedly moved. Then they said that they were melted in an aluminum factory. There really isn't much evidence for or against a lot of the events that occurred. The media also ignored the Krajina 'massacre' committed by the US and Croatian forces. Even if say the Croats didn't kill the supposed 2,000 or so Serbs as claimed, they still drove out hundreds of thousands from their homes. Even the figure of Serbians raping women was lowered from 60,000 then down to 20,000 then finally only 119 documented cases were found. Besides, the commanders and politicians were investigated and tried already by the Hague. It's over and done with. Serbia is not like some international pariah like Cuba or North Korea. Yugoslavia was split up, each nationality got their own land whether fair or not, it's over and done with. I personally would've rather seen Yugoslavia stay as one like under Tito but that's history.

I have a favorable view of Serbia in the same way I support Czech Republic and Hungary. I feel that the Slavs must be united as they cannot only rely on the major European powers.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

I do think that Serbia would be an excellent mediator between NATO dominated Central Europe and the Russian east. This is why the whole war started in Ukraine and thousands paid the price for it. It was an important chess piece for both Nato and Russia.

I'm happy to see that at least the Slavic countries aren't being sucked into the craziness of their western neighbors.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]


I agree with you 100% on that. The Visegrad 4 must stand firm with each other. Quite frankly, I would love to see Serbia included in this group too.


The Serbs have enjoyed close ties with Russia throughout history. After the fall of the USSR, the average Russian began to view the US very favorably - they wanted to live and work in the US, study in US schools, listen to US music, etc. etc. The bombing of Belgrade changed all that right away and Russians have viewed the US unfavorably since then.


That's what I was thinking! Why should China, Iran, Belarus, etc. be the only ones to benefit from increased trade caused by Western sanctions? I mean Russia is so hurt by sanctions and oil prices but unfortunately Poland can't really become a bigger trade partner with Russia because that could mean political backlash from the EU and losing trade with Germany and the EU. The PiS government is already in a precarious situation for their 'rule of law' violations. Merkel really has Poland by the balls.. I do know there is a good business relationship between the Poles and Russians in Kaliningrad. The politicians, not so much - they're worried about military deployments there.

I know Poland and Russia have had their share of problems. I think though with the craziness going on next door in Germany, Poland should at least consider making better relations with Russia if even only for their own financial gain through exports.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]


That beautiful Stalinist syringe wedding cake looking 'Pajac Kultury' building in Warsaw of course! Just kidding.. to my understanding that 'gift' from the Russians was paid for by the Poles anyway.

That was actually the very first thing I wrote - I know that Poland and Russia historically did not have a good relationship. The question is if that is at all changing now as some Poles want the country to exit the EU (oftentimes because they are critical of Merkel's policies) so I am wondering if they are perhaps looking more towards Russia as a partner instead of the Eu. I guess the general consensus is no - distrust of Germany and the EU is not warranting a better relationship with Russia and Putin.

It does look like it rose a little bit from the year before for Poland.

The one thing if you look at their methodology the sample size used is very small - just over 1,000 Polish people:

Survey Methods for Poland in 2015

Country: Poland
Year: 2015
Sample Design: Multi-stage, area probability design. Primary sampling units (PSUs) are gminas (communities) stratified by province, urbanity and gmina size. Twenty-seven large gminas are selected with certainty. Within these gminas, PSUs are blocks. The number of effective PSUs is 257. Individuals within households are selected using the next birthday method. At least three attempts are made to complete the interview with the selected respondent.

Mode: Face-to-face
Languages: Polish
Fieldwork Dates: April 7 - May 13, 2015
Sample Size: 1,028
Margin of Error: 3.5 percentage points
Representative: Adult population 18 plus
Primary Vendor: Princeton Survey Research Associates International
Weighting Variables: Gender, age, education and urbanity
Design Effects: 1.28

If you pull up Germany, Russia, etc. the sample sizes are all around 1,000 as well.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

Well Poland has been betrayed by many countries - both Russia and the west.

I have heard of some news outlets accusing Russia of sponsoring groups in Poland and the Baltic countries. I haven't looked too much into it but it wouldn't surprise me given the situation in eastern Ukraine.

Personally, I don't think Poland should put all their faith in Germany, the EU or Russia. I don't think they should chose one side over the other though as both sides have screwed them over. Ultimately, Poland needs to continue to modernize their armed forces and think for themselves instead of going by whatever Brussels tells them to do. I think we are starting to see some changes in Poland - whether they are for the better or for the worse only time will tell.

Also, Didn't Mikke-Korwin write a pro Russian (anti-Russophobia or however it is spelled) book? I think he also stated that supposedly the snipers in Maidan were trained in Poland were CIA agents there to cause unrest or something like that.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

Russia has done a lot of bad and the US is suspicious of them. However, I think that the US should at least engage in more meaningful diplomatic discussion with them concerning ISIS and the middle east. They've certainly done a better job of bombing ISIS than we have and in a shorter time too. Economic sanctions don't really hurt the leaders of these countries but rather the everyday citizens. In fact,

People don't respect the US anymore. Russia, Iran, and China are starting to realize that the US isn't all that strong anymore and they can start doing what they want.

That's besides the point though. I am interested to find out what the opinion of Russia and Putin is in Poland - especially among the youth and the euro skeptics.

History / Cars made in Poland - during communist and post-communist times [23]

Not sure kpc21 - this was before my times. Communism in Poland was quite different right after WW2, different during the 60s and 70s, different during the martial law times, and different yet in the 80s right up to the explosion of the solidarity movement.

I do know that things were rationed and I actually still have an old ration card. I found it funny that the government rationed out cigarettes and alcohol.

As far as gasoline rations I have no clue but that's a good question. I do remember though having to crank up the engine on the old MB to get it going.

I've always wondering how popular Russian made cars were in communist Poland. I do know there were a bit of Ladas around. I would absolutely love to get my hands on a M13 Chaika. They're rather expensive though - $60k 70k+ for the sedans and $100k+ for the convertibles. Even when they are available they go very quickly.

History / Cars made in Poland - during communist and post-communist times [23]


Not exactly. I don't know the exact specifics of the dollar and its purpose in Poland but I do know that buying things with dollars was not illegal.

The cinckiarz profession I think was technically illegal but kind of accepted by authorities. The PL government was unable to provide basic goods for citizens during several years (forget what years it was I think it was either under Gomulka's or Jaruzelski's reign) and even during the 'good years' a lot of items were very scarce and rationed out. This is kind of similar to North Korea where there are markets where citizens can buy and sell goods - often using dollars or Chinese currency but rarely NK currency. Although technically illegal, they are a must since the NK currency has hardly any value and oftentimes an average citizen can't purchase certain goods from NK government run stores because the items simply aren't there.


Yes my parents had an old diesel Mercedes. The Skodas I hear were actually regarded, and still are, as pretty good cars for the money. Opel were also pretty popular but I don't know if that was pre 1989 but I sure saw a ton of them in the 90s


You are correct - the engines are imported. Also these cars are made in very small amounts like the Hussarya is 33 units and the Leopard is handmade with about 80 to 200 units a year. Oftentimes manufacturers will import engines or other components because of economies of scale. The Germans make great engines but their electronics aren't the best in their cars. I had a 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero and the car was a mut. You would think oh a Saab - well that's a Swedish car. However, only the metalwork was in fact Swedish, the engine was a German VW/Audi - 2.0 turbo (used in the Audi A4, VW Jetta and GTI, etc), and the transmission was Japanese. The radiator was actually from Poland. Another example is Jaguars and Land Rovers since they use Ford engines but are often considered to be British cars.

News / Poland's trump card, the most famous Pole alive (L. Walesa) - what do you think? [38]

I don't think that he was all that great of a president. I do admire his courage for standing up to the reds and organizing people but I don't think as a president he was that great. I think he would've been better as perhaps like a human rights minister or labor minister or something. I don't think economics were necessarily his specialty. Nonetheless, Poland did not have an economic wild west free for all to nearly the same extent that Ukraine and Russia did after the collapse of communism.

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

AMEN!!

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

I feel Poland is like a 'best kept secret.' All the beautiful castles like Wawel, cathedrals like Ostrow Tumski, hiking and enjoying the hot springs in Zakopane... I love everything about Poland...

Just wish wages were a bit higher or at least on par with Germany, France, England, etc.

Language / What are the hard aspects of Polish according to its learners? - home essay [21]

Learning all the proper grammar - like mianowinik, biernik, wolacz, etc. - basically teaches you to properly use verbs... I consider myself a fluent Polish speaker and writer and I still don't know all of those.

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

I love Poland because nearly my entire family lives there and it is where I was born (Wroclaw). I love Poland because of the beautiful culture and traditions although I am not a big fan of the food. I love our beautiful Polish women. I love that Polish people truly take pride in whatever they do - if it is a restaurateur he or she will make the place look amazing and have great food yet charge low prices. I love Polish hospitality and how warm people are - although you have to be careful as many are rather wise and cunning and will pretend to be your friend to use you.

I feel that Poland as a country and Polish goods and services are like a 'best kept secret' in a way.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

WOW I did not know that the tax authorities were that harsh in Poland... and here I thought the IRS was hardcore... So what you're telling me is that in the targ (aka bazaar) now the vendors have cash registers that are registered with the Tax Bureau? Wow.... that is insane! Is it the same for services? Like say if you get a haircut, take your car for a tune-up, etc.?

I did ask my friend about the whole shipping thing - he will usually send it in a package with clothes like say jeans, t shirt, and like a box of chocolate and the watch will be in the pocket or something. Sometimes it is shipped in parts so like the bracelet will be in 1 package and the mechanism in the other. He did have his package held by customs one time and had to pay the VAT plus a fine. He said that lately business has been extremely slow since the Zloty to Dollar rate make imported products, especially US ones, very very expensive. But yeah, for the most part it's been pretty easy for him to just ship the package as present of clothes for a friend with the watch inside. He stated he does take a risk though by not insuring the package but he has not had any issues with confiscation yet. Also, sometimes he will pay someone to fly to Poland or go himself with the watches but with this he'll usually have them take 2-3.

I'd also like to add when I flew to Poland recently the price was VERY cheap. Last time I flew in the summer I believe the tickets themselves $1800 for a round trip from Chicago to Warsaw to Wroclaw. This time I paid $1,650 for roundtrip PLUS 10 nights at a 4 star hotel in Wroclaw. I couldn't believe how cheap it was.

Yes if I did move to Poland I would definitely rent at first. I really want to leave the US for a while, perhaps even permanently and add some international work experience to my resume. I have a bachelor's with a dual major in International Business and Marketing but most of the jobs I've had since graduating were all sales. It's mainly because I could make much more money as a salesperson than say like a marketing associate or whatever. I don't necessarily enjoy it but weirdly enough I am good at it. I'm not going to make money although I want to make enough to live on and perhaps save some. It'd be more for experience and adventure and also to add something unique to my resume. Of course, having a good salary doesn't hurt but it's not a requirement.

If I did move to Poland I'd have to most likely continue in sales as it looks like I wouldn't earn nearly as much money teaching English. I think it would be rather difficult to live on a teacher's salary in Poland. I have looked into teaching in other countries though - mainly S. Korea, China, Japan, and Kazakhstan. Surprisingly, there's a group of elite schools in Kazakhstan and they actually pay English teachers the most out of this group - $80k USD annually with 10% income tax. The jobs in S. Korea were very attractive and it seems as long as you're a native speaker, have a 4 year degree, and a TOEFL certificate you're good. Although the average salaries are higher in countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc. I don't think I'd like living there very much. I have considered teaching English in Germany or working in another profession especially if the job was close to the Polish border although with all the changes in Germany I wouldn't want to go there anymore. Czech Republic is still an option. Prague is actually my favorite city in Europe. I absolutely love it! If I could find a job in Poland that even paid $30k a year I'd move right away but it's been a challenge finding a job that pays this let alone getting an interview and offer.

On another note, I did get a job offer from a large Polish fraternal organization/insurance company with their hq in Chicago and I am considering taking it. They are in 35 states in the US and have a lot of contacts in D.C. as well as Poland. They frequently have dinners, galas, dances, etc. If I accept this job I know I'll be able to make a lot of contacts in high places, especially within the PiS government as they are very friendly with this organization, and that could perhaps open some doors to good jobs in Poland.