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Sarmatism in Poland


Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
8 Mar 2008  #1
Crow has posted one of first Polish coins ... and on them there are some signs in Sarmationa language ...

coin

(we used some signs before Hitler ;) look properly on this coin)

some official Sarmatian signs noticeable on this coin :

I have decided to find and post some informations about some Sarmatian legends customs and traditions.

So firstly Sarmatians:

geocities.com/reginheim/sarmatians.gif

ancient Sarmatian jewellery:

Sarmatian warriors:

;-)

Poland sarmatian

Ok ancient World is ancient world...

What was later :

Sarmatism in Poland

Sarmatism embodied the dominant lifestyle, culture and ideology of the szlachta (nobility) in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth from the 16th century to the 19th century. Together with Golden Liberty, it formed the unique aspects of the Commonwealth's culture.

This belief became an important part of szlachta culture, penetrated all aspects of life and served to differentiate Polish szlachta from Western nobility (which szlachta called pludracy, a reference to trousers, not worn by the szlachta but popular among the Westerners) and their customs.

What contemporary Polish historians consider one of the most essential features of this tradition is not Sarmatian ideology [...]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatism
Filios1 8 | 1,336    
8 Mar 2008  #2
Those pictures of Sarmatian warriors, very much remind me of Mongols, or Tatars, or any other fighting unit from the steppes. Odd how they are so similar.

Now that I looked again, I thought of Persians : )
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
8 Mar 2008  #3
Those pictures of Sarmatian warriors, very much remind me of Mongols, or Tatars, or any other fighting unit from the steppes. Odd how they are so similar.

I could find that kind of pictures ... I don't know how do they look for you. Mongolians this time were somewhere near China ... and apeared after 1000, and this map comes form 400 BC. Worrior presented here come forom this era as well.

ancient Greeks had seen them this way (maybe more realitic than pictures I have posted) :

OK so maybe I will continue. Polish nobels thought that only them form Polish society had origing in Sarmatia. (later some historicans realized that is is not true ... )

Look once again on some Sarmatian signs:

and on coat of arms of some Polish nobels :

lubicz

(once again this Coat of Arms has nothing to do with 3rd Reich)

herb boryeko

this is mine Coat of Arms :) with ancient origin:
Crow 143 | 7,412    
9 Mar 2008  #4
If you ask me what was/is Polish historical mission among Slavs (but also for rest of the world), i would tell you that i think that it was/is Polish Sarmatism.

Thru Sarmatism we have insight in organization of ancient Slavic society, military organization, primordial and fundamental principles of modern democracy, symbolism, spiritual values, etc.

Glory to Poles for this achievement! My deepest regards

One more thing

Name of Sarmatians was once universal name for all Slavs. Then, some scientist point on Serbian name (on Balkan, in Lusatia, Baltic, Siberia) as form of preserved original Sarmatian name. If this could be proved as scientific fact without any debt- i would agree that preservation of original form of Sarmatian name was real historical mission of Balkan and Lusatian Serbs. Also, Balkan Serbs (only them from all Slavs) preserved in active use, ancient family custom- SLAVA, Christianized form of old Slavic spiritual ritual dedicated to ancestors (later more about it).

Obviously, we all have our role in bigger picture

Slava!
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
9 Mar 2008  #5
What can be interesting Legendary Amazons have origin in Sarmatia ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazons

and finaly King Arthur ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_basis_for_King_Arthur

In 1978, C. Scott Littleton and Ann C. Thomas expanded on the ideas of Vasily Abaev and Georges Dumezil and published their theory of a connection between the Sarmatian people and the history and later legend of King Arthur.

Crow 143 | 7,412    
9 Mar 2008  #6
OK so maybe I will continue. Polish nobels thought that only them form Polish society had origing in Sarmatia. (later some historicans realized that is is not true

agree on this but have something to add

In the last stage of existence of ancient freeSlavic world, before era of slavery occurred, on the territory of Poland, Czeska, Slovakia and today's Hungary- was positioned last great core of Sarmatian/Slavic world, recognized from all Sarmatians/Slavs.

Note designation for region Panonia (known as Roman province). Name, coming from Polish word Pan- Mister, Master and represent trace of time when border line of Polish influence and importance of warlords from Polish speaking/cultural area had great global Sarmatian/Slavic importance. So, by analogy and thru translation- Panonia would mean `ancestral land of masters/nobility` and because of great importance of Panonia for all Sarmatians (Slavs), that region later becomes target and was devastated, destroyed from Roman legions, Teuton knights and Huns.

That's why later Polish nobility claimed that `coming from Sarmatians` (referring on universal Slavic name from the powerful/glorious days) and also referring on fact that in their veins flow blood of ancient warlords and masters of great Sarmatian/Slavic tribal alliance.

Key reasons why old Sarmatian (Slavic) core was displaced from Western Balkan (Serbia) to the Poland, via Panonia- were on the first place security reasons and then economic factors. After all, population increased and seized larger portion of territory affected interests of nobility. But, it is amazing that we with almost absolute certainity can analize how blood (connections/interests) of ancient nobility (continued even in middle age) flow on the dirrection Balkan-Baltic. Very, very interesting fact, which support thesis that Slavic world is much older then many of us can imagine.

Old core (on the territory of today's Serbia) was consolidated, as even genetic science confirms, due to evolution from the Paleolithic, in time which come after Ice Age was finished.

That primordial ancestral population slowly increased, developed and spread along the Danube, Sava and Tisa Rivers (then, etc, etc rivers), especially after agriculture was invented. With time, Mediterranean trade becomes key source of profit for old warlords. On Mediterranean, Sarmatians (Slavs) clashed for the first time and fought for primate and for survivor, fighting against Semitic races.

Then, amber was found when Sarmatians (Slavs) reached North of Europe. Amber trade routes and security reasons due to advancing Semitic newcomers (Greece, Northern Italy), made that ancient nobility change center of its activity, and redirect its attention from Mediterranean to Panonia and territory of today's Poland, deeper in Sarmatian (Slavic) inland.

Fact that old Sarmatian core was on Balkan was one of key reasons why original form of Sarmatian name survived in use among Balkan Slavs and then spread along the Danube river together with population and stays remembered as universal name of all Sarmatians/Slavs (as old chronicles and linguistic science suggests).

On example of Siberia we see trace of Sarmatian (Aryan) intercontinental migrations and in Rg Vedic scripts we can read about time when Sarmatians clashed with Black races to preserve their primate even on Ind river. We clearly see that Sarmatian (Slavic/Proto Slavic) world was stretched from Ind River in today's India, via Eurasia and near East to the British islands and west of Europe.

To be continued [with focus on evolution of universal Slavic names based on forms with roots- SRB, SLAV and RUS]
osiol 55 | 3,922    
9 Mar 2008  #7
I thought Sarmatians were more Iranian than Slavic.
Did they smoke dope like the Scythians did?
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
9 Mar 2008  #8
I think you don't understand everything ;)
osiol 55 | 3,922    
9 Mar 2008  #9
I understand most of what you said there, but not everything.
So... dope-smokers or what?
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
9 Mar 2008  #10
hen, amber was found when Sarmatians (Slavs) reached North of Europe. Amber trade routes and security reasons due to advancing Semitic newcomers (Greece, Northern Italy), made that ancient nobility change center of its activity, and redirect its attention from Mediterranean to Panonia and territory of today's Poland, deeper in Sarmatian (Slavic) inland.

Yes I remeber what I have said about origin of Husaria.

geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/hussar14.jpg
osiol 55 | 3,922    
9 Mar 2008  #11
Here is something a little more precise. In my other post I just wanted to state that I didn't think the Sarmatians could be equated with Slavs.

The various different groups of people who came from the steppes were of multiple origins: Mongols, Turks, Finno-Ugrians and Indo-Europeans. The vastness of the region and the lifestyle that kind of terrain produced in its occupants kept people moving. In some ways, it is almost more like an ocean than a landmass like the heavily-populated and largely sedentary population of Europe.

Tribes would join forces and form allegiances, and other times would break away, seperate and even settle. Hungarians are a good example of this. Their language descends from an Ugric language spoken just north of the steppes. Climatic and cultural change caused them to become more nomadic and do as the steppe-dwellers did, thus picking up a huge amount of Turkic vocabulary.

The Hungarians who invaded Europe eventually mixed with the extant population (probably largely Slavic), whereas those who remained in the east shifted their language to a Turkic one, probably mostly Bashkhort.

Genghis Khan has been quoted as saying that a nation of one culture is weak, whereas a nation of mixed tribes is strong. I take this as meaning they took the best ideas from all who joined them. The English saying 'Somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan' meaning despotic is an idiotic one.

As for terms like 'Sarmatian' or 'Sarmacki' to describe something in the national character, this sort of thing happens in lots of different countries. Gallishness to describe the French is one example. Their 'Pays du Galles' is in fact Wales. The French descend only in part from the Celtic Gauls who once lived in part of France.
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
9 Mar 2008  #12
Mongolians came to Russia after 1100 AD...
and your post was very racist, there is tatar miniority in Poland and they are very decent people.

We were discussing much different issues which happend much ealier and on Polands terytories.

btw I see Osiol that you have some problems with Polish Vikings or Sarmatians ... ;)
osiol 55 | 3,922    
9 Mar 2008  #13
some problems with Polish Vikings

What was my problem with Polish Vikings?
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
9 Mar 2008  #14
To be continued [with focus on evolution of universal Slavic names based on forms with roots- SRB, SLAV and RUS]

I wait for something interesting Crow, because I see you have some interesting informations ... :) See ya later :)
Crow 143 | 7,412    
9 Mar 2008  #15
thought Sarmatians were more Iranian than Slavic.
Did they smoke dope like the Scythians did?

for Proto Slavs and Slavs, in history was used many different names

Speaking particularly about Sarmatians and Scythians (both branches of Proto Slavs/old Slavs) we know that they were kin ethos's which later mixed and difference between them was practically annulled. Some of their tribes were nomadic, some lived from agriculture.

But Osiol, you must have in mind that, what was Iran few thousands years ago, its not what is Iran today (even scientific climatology confirmed that fact).

More in case with Rg Vedic text`s that i mentioned and parts which is important for understandings of Sarmatian/Slavic past...

Most probably that Rg Vedic manuscripts preserved memory on time when Whites (proto Slavs) were pushed from around Ind River, pushed from darker races.

I would remind you that ethnic name of Serbs, form - Srbinda represent only ethnic name of today existing White ethos which is mentioned in Vedic scripts. Vedic word Srbinda has almost identical sound and has practicaly same meaning as word `Srbenda` of modern day Serbian language. (Srbenda - meaning Serb in superlative).

Now, having in mind that linguistic science established correlation between name of Sarmatians and name of Serbs (that word Serbians represent some kind of original form of Sarmatian name) and if we know that Sarmatian name was universal name of all Slavs we can focus our attention on Rg Veda`s text:

HYMN XXXII. Indra.
astrojyoti.com/rigvedabook8b.htm

``2. Strong God, he slew Anarsani, Srbinda, Pipru, and the fiend,
Ahisuva, and loosed the floods.``


What we see here is that Srbinda (read Sarmatians) were victims of `Strong God` (some enemy) but, also of natural catastrophe (flood). Those were reason of Sarmatian disaster on Far East.

Veda`s also remembered who was foe of Srbinda (Sarmatians):

Vedic Glossary...

Srbinda- ``Name of a foe of Indra``

So, considering that Indra in Vedic text designate native population of Indra (Black Indians) from the other/Black side of Ind River and, that Srbinda was their foe, we understand that stronger enemy (in that moment) was, together with natural catastrophe (flood) as I said, reason that most Eastern branch of Sarmatians was pushed back from Ind River.

All this support Vedic thesis that Black India was invaded by advanced culture of Whites (Aryans/in fact Sarmatians) but, that after great struggle Blacks of India pushed Whites back.

It is known that White`s gave nobility (ruling castes) to Black`s of India. In general, Whites of Rg Veda`s aren`t remembered as something evil that happened to India. On the contrary, Whites (Sarmatian) were remembered as more advanced newcomers which played positive role in Indian history.
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
9 Mar 2008  #16
ok I think Sarmatism isn't about whiteness and blackness ...

as to Mongolians it was part of old Polish - Russian discussion (Russians didn't like to talk about that so Poles like to talk about that esp after partitons of Poland) ... finaly we went in to wrong direction.

Ok so what Poles consider to be Sarmatian.

Art form 1600 - 1800s is considered very Sarmatian.

Poles consider patriotism as very Sarmatian.

In later era when Poland was patitioned, Poles believed that Poles are "choosen by God" and era of Polish romantism is considered as influnced by some Sarmatian traditions.

Golden Freedom and Noble Democracy is considered as very Sarmatian.

High Women possition in society is considered Sarmatian.

There are some examples of poetry which are considered Sarmatian.

Some military traditions are considered Sarmatian.

I see my post about Polish Sarmatians made some confusion on forum ok to make everything clear:

Poland:

bi.gazeta.pl/im/6/3896/z3896456X.jpg

siatkarki

Iran

India

Ok I used CFM idea to make it clear ;-)

maybe now G will comeback ;)
Ozi Dan 26 | 569    
11 Mar 2008  #17
Whatever happened to the Sarmatians? Where did they go?

Can anyone trace their family roots to Sarmatians?
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
11 Mar 2008  #18
This link is hard core :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

Ukrainians feel Sarmatian as well ...

When you will read my previous posts, you will notice some noticeable connections with Sarmats in Polish culture.

Can anyone trace their family roots to Sarmatians?

Honestly there are so many theories about Sarmatians/Aryans etc. that nothing is sure. And it is very sensitive case ... so you know.

Finally everybody want to be Sarmatian ... and want to exclude others ;) Germans tell Slavs are not Aryans (Sarmatians), Slavs that Germans are not Sarmatians , Brits have their theories as well ... Finally DNA researches show that in XX century we all are mix ...

I think you should rather talk to Crow or Bratwurst to know more ;-) I am interested about Polish meaning of Sarmatism in XVI century. What means Noble democracy, tolerance, political system...

and it has nothing to do with XX century ideologies.
Crow 143 | 7,412    
11 Mar 2008  #19
What means Noble democracy, tolerance, political system...
and it has nothing to do with XX century ideologies.

it is shame brate how you deflect from rightfull Polish contribution to global civilization

Obviously, Poles today need Serbian support more then Serbians need Polish. I mentioned that already once

Germans tell Slavs are not Aryans (Sarmatians), Slavs that Germans are not Sarmatians

truth is truth no matter what people want and, there is no progress without truth. That`s why informative age bringing revolution on the field of Slavic history

Germans are connected with Sarmatians/Aryans as much as they are ready to admit that great deal of modern German nation represent just germanized Slavs

(we used some signs before Hitler ;) look properly on this coin)

SVASTIKA and many other ancient symbols belong to Slavic heritage. So, there is no need that you in the beggining of story about Sarmatians apologise to anyone for you talk about our great heritage.

Its not Slavs who should apologize. Its sin of others who used Svastika (symbol of light and sun) as symbol of evil and hijaced symbolism of it.

For me, Nazi/Hitler use of Svastika was just one more attack on Slavs, attack on spiritual and even on methapisical level, part of `drang nach osten`

Masks would fall down sooner then many think and Slavs would walk with dignity. World would be batter place, balanced
cfm - | 5    
11 Mar 2008  #20
Its not Slavs who should apologize. Its sin of others who used Svastika (symbol of light and sun) as symbol of evil and hijacked symbolism of it.

Indeed my Slavish brother Crow! All evil in this world come from Germany, they stealed out symbols and soo they will try to steal our land on their `drang nach osten` again! Everyone can see what German Federation of Expellees intend to do. But once alll Slavs shall unite under leadership of Poland and then we shall do 'drag nach westen' !
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
11 Mar 2008  #21
All evil in this world come from germany,

Erm....:)

But once alll Slavs shall unite under leadership of Poland and then we shall do 'drag nach westen'

And that's better than pan-germanics "Drang nach Osten" because.....?

SVASTIKA and many other ancient symbols belong to Slavic heritage

Let me guess...some Pole (or half Pole) invented it, right?

To bad that the rest of the doesn't know your truth!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

"Archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates from the Neolithic period. An ancient symbol, it occurs mainly in the cultures that are in modern day India and the surrounding area, sometimes as a geometrical motif and sometimes as a religious symbol. It has long been widely used in major world religions such as Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Buddhism and Jainism."

And now you don't only claim the Swastika but now Slavs are Aryans too...ROFL

You are all really happy in your little, weird world, aren't you? :)
Can't you stay with something of your own?
Crow 143 | 7,412    
11 Mar 2008  #22
But once alll Slavs shall unite under leadership of Poland and then we shall do 'drag nach westen' !

Poland has its place in Slavic world, on a golden pedestal- that`s for sure

i won`t complaint if leading movement for Slavic Alliance or Union, comes from Poland. Poland was great Sarmatian center, last remembered core of free ancient Slavic world. It would be rightfull that Slavs continue from point where they were interupted because of outside invasion- when era of slavery occured
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
11 Mar 2008  #23
Hey Crow....the last weeks you were so deeply disappointed as all your prognoses were proven wrong:

First: Kosovo will never dare to declare Independence
Second: Nobody will dare to recognize it
Third: All your slavic Brothers will take up fight for Serbs
Fourth: At least your russian brothers will march for Serbia

You got it all wrong!
What makes you think your next prognoses will happen??? :)
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
11 Mar 2008  #24
Let me guess...some Pole (or half Pole) invented it, right?

I see you try to insinuate some theories, The fact is that this sign appears ... in Finalnd, Poland, Ukriaine, Russia, Sweden, Iceland ... in some parts of ancient Roman empire as well. I am not going to argue who invented it, the fact is that Germans slandered this sign ...

What makes you think your next prognoses will happen??? :)

Of course ! :) Now Serbs should give up Kosovo join EU be "good boy" be our friend in EU and wait to moment when you will think about increasing amout of musilims in your country ...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
11 Mar 2008  #25
The fact is that this sign appears ... in Finalnd, Poland, Ukriaine, Russia, Sweden, Iceland ...

That was not my point!
My point of amusement was your implication that it's somehow of slavic ORIGIN!

Now Serbs should give up Kosovo

Earth to Lukasz...that's no longer a serbian choice! It's gone..

(And I doubt reverting that will make the Turks in Germany go home)

they should use your methods, join togheter with Albanians EU and simple start buying land in Kosovo ...

That would be a possibility!

More and more people started to think about their origin and more and more money is used to check some theories

Been there, done that....you imitators look lame! :)
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,750    
11 Mar 2008  #26
That would be a possibility!

That is why you need permition to buy something more than house or flat ...
now when prices are similar maybe something will change ...

Been there, done that....you imitators look lame! :)

Hitler looks lame and your avatar looks lame LOL ... he used wrong ideology !
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
11 Mar 2008  #27
your avatar looks lame

Hey! My girls like it! :)
Crow 143 | 7,412    
11 Mar 2008  #28
My point of amusement was your implication that it's somehow of slavic ORIGIN!

it can easily be proved that Svastika belong to Slavic heritage

Svastika as symbol appeared in agrarian society, based on devotion to solstice, sun circles (scientific fact!). Bearers of agriculture in Europe were old Slavs via Danubian culture and surrounding kin cultural areas. Scientific facts and evidences suggests that anciant Slavic population extracted Svastika as spiritual symbol.

Now, linguistics... [just one example well known in linguistic science]

Comparing Slavic languages with German language we see that old words in German, in connection with agriculture were borrowed from Slavs and are Slavic words in origin. Conclusion- invaders come, conquored Slavs, enslved them and on the and claimed (tried to steal) even Slavic spiritual heritage (Svastika, for example).

German nation is young one. That`s why German state is so agressive
Zgubiony 15 | 1,554    
11 Mar 2008  #29
it can easily be proved that Svastika belong to Slavic heritage

It didn't. It originated with the paleolithics
osiol 55 | 3,922    
11 Mar 2008  #30
devotion to solstice, sun circles

Wow! I never knew before that Stonehenge was in fact... Slavhenge!


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