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Sarmatism in Poland


OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
11 Mar 2008 #31
Crow has tendency to exaggerate or dramatise that is why when he is in 60% right it is easy to win over him just because 40% of his statements are magnified. Stonehenge seems Celtic ;-) don't worry.

Ok I see BB is gone :) so I am going to do something interesting
Crow 148 | 9,320
11 Mar 2008 #32
it can easily be proved that Svastika belong to Slavic heritage

let Italian scientist Mario Alinei answer on this... [my favorite quotation]

continuitas.com
continuitas.com/intro.html

e) The totally absurd thesis of the so called 'late arrival' of the Slavs in Europe must be replaced by the scenario of Slavic continuity from Paleolithic, and the demographic growth and geographic expansion of the Slavs can be explained, much more realistically, by the extraordinary success, continuity and stability of the Neolithic cultures of South-Eastern Europe (the only ones in Europe that caused the formation of tells) (Alinei 2000, fc.b)

see also... Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

For the Slavs the swastika is a magic sign manifesting the power and majesty of the sun and fire

That is of importance. Science suggests that Slavs remembered true meaning of Svastika.

Svasika was spread on vast territory, same as Proto Slavs, same as ancient Sarmatians, old Slavs and modern day Slavs.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
11 Mar 2008 #33
Mario Alinei

And I showed you before that Alinei is a lone nutter who is shunned and proven wrong by the mainstream historians and scientists....you really should look to someone better suited to support your points (if you can find someone that is)....but I can understand why you would feel so attached to him.

"Some of his main linguistic contributions related to ideas of "paleolinguistics" have been widely rejected by mainsteam historical linguistics, such as the Paleolithic Continuity Theory, which contends that the Indo-European languages originated in Europe and have existed there since the Paleolithic."

Why don't you bring some other historians and scientists to prove your points? Some more respectable names and works? That would help you greatly to gain more credibility...

Svasika was spread on vast territory, same as Proto Slavs, same as ancient Sarmatians, old Slavs and modern day Slavs.

And there is a difference if you say "Slavs borrowed and used Swastika" or "Slavs invented Svastika/Swastika is of slavic origin" - a huge difference!

Stonehenge seems Celtic ;-) don't worry.

Apropos Stonehenge....they found another one in Germany (or kind of), near Leipzig:

:)

ananova.com/news/story/sm_49311.html

"German Stonehenge predates British site

Archaeologists say they have found the site of a German Stonehenge which is even older than the British one.

The series of rings in a field near Leipzig in the east of the country are said to be at least 7,000 years old - 2,000 years older than Stonehenge.

Archaeologists say it was the site of a stone-age temple where they believe people and animals were sacrificed to the gods.

The 120-metre diameter rings also have gates, one of which works like Stonehenge to direct the sun's rays onto a central point at sunrise on mid-summer's day.

In contrast to Stonehenge, the rings were not made up of giant rocks but of thousands of oak-wood stakes which have not survived the passage of time.

Only the marks in the ground where the stakes once stood have remained - and have now been discovered by the archaeologists."


(but maybe it was the Slavs???)

:):):)

What about the sky disc of Nebra? The slavs too???

"German experts on Thursday hailed Europe's oldest astronomical observatory, discovered in Saxony-Anhalt last year, a "milestone in archaeological research" after the details of the sensational find were made public."

dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,942824,00.html

dw-world.de/popups/popup_lupe/0,,942824_ind_1,00.html
JuliePotocka 5 | 188
11 Mar 2008 #34
Perhaps people were more advanced at telling the sun and moon cycles across the board than previously thought. Why on earth do archaeologists ALWAYS say the past people always killed things, each and every time!? And every time they find a goddess statue, they call it a freaking FERTILITY statue!? That is sooo lame.

Bratboy, I like thinking of you as a blonde Conan.

There is much enjoyment in this, for the Samaritans, and I'll take the King Arthur Legend for Poland, for the WIN!

I do also rather enjoy the link of the Amazons to moi. THAT is rather amusing, and fits my attitude to a 'T'.
shopgirl 6 | 928
12 Mar 2008 #35
SVASTIKA and many other ancient symbols belong to Slavic heritage.

Just so you know....it also appears in Native American culture in the US. This is an ancient symbol......older than we can imagine. :)
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Mar 2008 #36
And there is a difference if you say "Slavs borrowed and used Swastika" or "Slavs invented Svastika/Swastika is of slavic origin" - a huge difference!

What is sure Svastika was Slavic symbol the same as other tribes ... I am not going to argue who invented it, I am sure not Germans. In old Slavic mithology it is connected with God "Svarog" and it symbolise "Fire"

What about the sky disc of Nebra? The slavs too???

Now instead of trying to respond on facts I posted you try to catch me in "Crows" trap of maginfieing something. LOL Find my post about Sarmatians or Slavs which was untrue... or try to debate instead of trying to tell I posted that Stoneheadge is Slavic ...

I think it is just lack of arguments...

Honestly when we have new tools to make researches, Germans and their XX century ideologies look more and more pathetic ...
JuliePotocka 5 | 188
12 Mar 2008 #37
From sources online:

The swastika (from Sanskrit svástika स्वस्तिक ) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either right-facing (卐) or left-facing (卍) forms. The swastika can also be drawn as a traditional swastika, but with a second 90° bend in each arm.
- Linked to Odin, Navajo, other religions around the globe!

Other links:
...
Different forms of the Svastika:
...

The word swastika comes from the Sanskrit svastika, meaning welfare (su = "well" + asti = "he is").

everything2.com/index.pl?node=swastika

- I can go on and on about it; it is more than 3000 years old, to be in Ancient Mesopotamia!
Crow 148 | 9,320
12 Mar 2008 #38
Saxony-Anhalt??

good luck of Net surfing abandened you Wurst and plus, you and me know very well that it has anything with luck

Isn`t it the same region from where originated Russian Emperess Cathrine the Great which was of Sorbian (Slavic) origin?

Catherine II of Russia

arikah.net/encyclopedia/Catherine_II_of_Russia

A German princess with a very remote Russian ancestry, and a first cousin of Gustav III of Sweden and of Charles XIII of Sweden, Sophie Augusta Frederica (Sophie Friederike Auguste von Anhalt-Zerbst), nicknamed "Figchen", was born in Stettin (now Szczecin, Poland) to Christian Augustus, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst, who held the rank of a Prussian general in his capacity as Governor of the city in the name of the king of Prussia.

`German Stonehenge` was found in ancient Slavic region- in Danubian cultural area- which population was germanized, not so deep in past.

So much about `German` ```contribution``` to global civilzation in antiquity. Man, five Hitler`s won`t be enough to consolidate your false heritage.

Builders of Stonehenge found

He is the earliest metalworker known from Britain, and his grave contained the earliest gold objects in Britain. Tests on his teeth showed that he came from central Europe.

more facts...

Archaeologists find 'Russian Stonehenge' (UPI Science Report)

Publication: UPI NewsTrack
Publication Date: 28-JAN-05

MOSCOW, Jan. 28 (UPI) -- Russian archaeologists have found the site of a 4,000-year-old concentric wooden structure resembling Britain's Stonehenge, the Art Newspaper reported Friday.

Another Stonehenge Found in Russia?

By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News

"Within the circle, two couples of the poles (in the rectangular area) make up gates," Ahmedov told Pravda. "Sunset can be seen through the gates if an observer stands in the center of the circle. One more pole outside the circle points at the sunrise."

news from one more Slavic country...

Macedonian Stonehenge in the village Kokino

by Kumanovo, in the region of Taticev Kamen the only megalithic observatory in the Balkans was discovered. The observatory is one of a kind. The locality is called Macedonian Stonehenge. This structure served to researches of the Sun and the Moon; it was built on Vulcan rocks, on a hill 1.013 meters above the sea level. It was confirmed that this location is from 1.815 B.C. The Kokino observatory was approximately built about 4.000 years ago.

more in case with dilemmas about Arthur...

Historian: King Arthur Was From Russia

By Kevin O'Flynn
Staff Writer

THE MOSCOW TIMES

The quests of King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table have held a far-reaching grip on imaginations for more than a millennium.

Some claim he was Welsh, others Scottish or Roman - while others say he never even existed - but a new book adds another twist by saying that much of the legend of King Arthur may come from a band of nomadic tribes whose descendants now live in southern Russia.

Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
12 Mar 2008 #39
LOL Crow....I will save your post and show it around. Why should only I have a good laugh! Thanks man! :)

Is there anything you DON'T attribute to your miracle people, your Überslavs??? ROFL
Crnogorac 3 | 111
12 Mar 2008 #40
The series of rings in a field near Leipzig

Interesting you mention this city...

HISTORY
Leipzig was the crossing place of two of the Roman Empire's most important trading routes and gets its name from the Old Sorbian word for lime tree, which is still today one of the most common trees found in the city. The religious reformer Martin Luther (1483-1546) was active in Leipzig. Music thrived through the genius of Johann Sebastian Bach, who lived and worked in Leipzig for 27 years until his death in 1750. The movement to tear down the Berlin Wall started in Leipzig.

Even BB cannot possibly deny this? ;)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
12 Mar 2008 #41
Boy...as this holy site was build there didn't exist a Leipzig....we are talking 7000 years back...no city in Europe existed back then! LOL

You where not even near! :)

HISTORY The movement to tear down the Berlin Wall started in Leipzig.

Let me guess, the "lime tree" makes Leipzig slavic regardless of Luther or Bach, right?

You people are really weird....
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 Mar 2008 #42
Svastika

Funny, always thought that the Swastika was the Sanskrit sign for the Sun, symbolising the rise of power and goodness...Easily proved as well....

M-G

Actually, I have some more funny news for Crow, our hysterical Slavic nationalist: Did you know that the name "Slavic" actually literally comes from the fact that the Romans kept these ppl as slaves? The Romans saw them as slaves and the name Slavic is literally derived from this fact.

M-G
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Mar 2008 #43
OK I see instead of discussion about Sarmats we have discussion about the same. Bratwurst post his crap maps where Poland is occupied by Germans and Crow has his world as well.

Thank you Julia for your link with with Swastika forms :

There is more Polish Coat of Arms based on Swastika form :

sw

bo

In Poland it is widely considered Swastika and some other symols come from Sarmats.
Now we have question where are Sarmats now.

There are 3 theories:

1) Sarmats = Slavs (Crow supports it and this time he is in majority ;) )

2) Sarmats = Slavic and Baltic mix

3) Sarmats conquered Slavs and later assimilated.

Some claim he was Welsh, others Scottish or Roman - while others say he never even existed - but a new book adds another twist by saying that much of the legend of King Arthur may come from a band of nomadic tribes whose descendants now live in southern Russia.

it is about Sarmats ... this time they were living on landsof todays Russia some time before were living somewhere near near India (like half of todays European nations)

Later they moved on west.

When we look on origin of Swastika (India, Iran or generaly middle east) and on tribes who could bring it to Europe ... and on DNA in European nations (new interesting tool very useful especialy in discussions with German Scientists and their theories) there is no doubt that It is Sarmatians job.

Look on Drogomir Coat of Arms and now look on one of English coat of Arms (Man Island) :
osiol 55 | 3,922
12 Mar 2008 #44
the name "Slavic" actually literally comes from the fact that the Romans kept these ppl as slaves?

Wrong way round. That Latin word's origin is Slavic.
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Mar 2008 #45
exactly

In Polish: Slavic is Słowiański ... and slave is niewolnik ...
Crow 148 | 9,320
12 Mar 2008 #46
Thank you Julia for your link with with Swastika forms

yes, thank you sister Julia

Let me guess, the "lime tree" makes Leipzig slavic regardless of Luther or Bach, right?

listen, if Germany is democratic state, many germanized Slavs would simple come back to mother Slavia. But no, Germany isn`t democratic and even today tend to assimilate as much as possible Slavs.

In Poland it is widely considered Swastika and some other symols come from Sarmats.

God bless fact that Poles preserved alive memory on Sarmatian schlachta. I admire to Poles because of that

You see now, thru practical example, why i always telling to you that Poland is piedmont of Slavdom and last core of Sarmatia.

just, please sc*** Tusk political career for me

MareGaea wrote:
the name "Slavic" actually literally comes from the fact that the Romans kept these ppl as slaves?

Wrong way round. That Latin word's origin is Slavic

so nicely and precisely said
Crnogorac 3 | 111
12 Mar 2008 #47
Actually, I have some more funny news for Crow, our hysterical Slavic nationalist: Did you know that the name "Slavic" actually literally comes from the fact that the Romans kept these ppl as slaves? The Romans saw them as slaves and the name Slavic is literally derived from this fact.M-G

This is just an example of completely false propaganda.

They are from a medieval Latin word Sclavus and its slightly later form Slavus, both of which referred first to any person who belonged to the large group of peoples of central and eastern Europe who spoke Slavonic languages. Medieval Latin borrowed the word from the Slavs' own name for themselves. In Old Slavonic, Slovene was the word for a Slavic person. It means literally "speaker" from Old Slavonic slovo, "word." They were the people of the word; that is, they spoke a Slavonic language.

Slavs have named Germans for example Nemci or in translation = "people who do not speak the tongue" so what?

MareGea why dont you concentrate and worry about what people from your own country are called? Why do you disturb yourself when clearly you have limited knowledge and try to discredit others - from your perspective foreign countries?
southern 75 | 7,096
12 Mar 2008 #48
They are from a medieval Latin word Sclavus and its slightly later form Slavus

I think the Byzantines first called them Sklavinoi in the 6th century.A lot of Sklavinoi were captured in the wars and sold as slaves,so the name Sklavos came to mean the slave.
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Mar 2008 #49
Pffff ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples

(I like part about Germans ;) )

Vikings and their Ukrainians allies captured Consatntinopol ... so I don't know who was Slave ...
Crnogorac 3 | 111
12 Mar 2008 #50
When did Slav come to mean "slave"? In the tenth century, during the eastward expansion of the Franks under Otto I (AD 913-973), many speakers of Old Slavonic were in fact conquered and enslaved. The change in meaning from Slav to slave occurred a little later in Italy , after the raids made by Venetians upon Slavonia(a province in present day Croatia) during the time of the Crusades.

Basically, MG tried to insinuate that Slavic was derived from the word "slave" which has no relation with reality, and is against common sence, but on this forum it is not surprising because it is possible to find even more problematic posts.

So MG educate yourself before you make such tendencious comments. You only discredit yourself with so called (easily refuted) "facts".
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Mar 2008 #51
the Franks under Otto I (AD 913–973), many speakers of Old Slavonic were in fact conquered and enslaved

Who? where ? which nation ? I don't know Serbs history. I know Polish and only durring WWII we can talk about slavery of Polish people (like a lot of european people)...

Poles for Scandianvians were Vends. Poland was Venland. For Germans Polen, On east we were Lachs.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 Mar 2008 #52
Hahahaha, Lukasz, this is one of the most funny remarks I have ever read here...Thanks!

PS: I don't mind Crow and his little depraved world, as long as he does not turn into a serial killer :)

M-G (has just posted the B-side of his new single on MySpace => go have a listen!)
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
13 Mar 2008 #53
My statement about being racist was very impulsive. I just wanted to point something out ... (post about Jews look) In my opinion you should be more careful with your judgments ... like slav= slave. I haven't noticed statemnts like Jews =rats.

PS: I don't mind Crow and his little depraved world, as long as he does not turn into a serial killer :)

Serbia has traumatic past and I consider them victim, the same as all Balkan countries. They are just after the war ... so you know.

has just posted the B-side

I don't sides are not the best idea on forum ... sometimes I just feel that some people judge Poland based on stereotypes and sometimes our contr-reactions here strenghten this stereotypes.
southern 75 | 7,096
13 Mar 2008 #54
Vikings and their Ukrainians allies captured Consatntinopol

When?

I did not write where the word Slav came from.Probably Slavs called themselves like this.I commented how it came to mean the slave.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
13 Mar 2008 #55
Vikings and their Ukrainians allies captured Consatntinopol

This is false. The only Vikings to step foot into Constantinople while it was under Byzantine rule, were merchants, and men who made up the Varangian Guard, an elite unit under the emperor.

Where do you get your information from?
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746
15 Mar 2008 #56
Bubunoic Plague (Black Death) in middle ages:

bulbonic

AIDS in europe

aids

Drugs
Alek - | 1
18 Mar 2008 #57
Does it really matter either you have such glorious ancestors or not? It’s of far more importance who you are in the present or the newest history. As far as I know, the Poles did not hold whatever similar reputation during their history. It’s funny, but mostly insignificant nations try to provide themselves with the background of glory heritage.
Czerwony Lis 1 | 33
23 Mar 2008 #58
I've read a portion of this thread and plan to finish it when I have more time

Recently I've been informed that after high resolution Y-DNA genetic testing that I may trace my ancestry from Polish R1a1 to the Sarmatians. My family is from Poland and I've been able to find out some very interesting things, such as possible Polish viking ancestors (with near matches in England) in addition to this new Sarmatian possibilty. Someone before asked if anyone could trace their family back. Well I may be able to.
Czerwony Lis 1 | 33
24 Mar 2008 #60
I went through the discussion and there are some side issues. But every forum does the same thing about the original subject matter.

My introduction was more on the lines of using genetic genealogy to determine deep ancestry. So far testing through Family Tree DNA has provided me with information regarding my deep ancestry. Y-dna testing may provide any male with insight to their deep ancestry. If you know that you are related to Szlachta from Poland, then it would be good to take a test. However, just having the surname does not necessarily make one noble. People changed their surname in the 1800's to emulate noble names. Mine for instance is referenced in two herbs: Junosza and Korczak, but until I can establish a blood relation, I have no title to either.

However, I can discuss my genetic ancestry and based on near matches on large databases I can infer historical context based on genetic distance. Genetic distance - the changes noted when comparing haplotypes (your genetic roadmap); one can calculate distance to most recent common ancestor. Although I have no real close matches; those with moderate distances are found or originated in Scotland, England, Poland and India. By estimating the distance you can then turn to historical information to look for a reason for the movement of peoples to far off places from their homeland including Polish Vikings and Sarmatians

ftdna.com I recommend joining the Polish Project first to get a discount. go with the highest reslution test that you can afford. You might be surprised what will turn up.


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