Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

RIGHT ON, TORQ!

In addition, the motivation for say, a Pole, to learn English is entirely different from that of a native, college-educated Anglophone. The former learns English much the way the rest of us dullards learn arithmetic - with great difficulty and no special talent for numbers whatsoever. As untold numbers of people count on the fingers instead of in their head as we've been taught, the random Pole has a similar ability with English, in my varied experience!

Somebody from abroad might actually try and get rid of their foreign accent when speaking another language. Yet, this seems to dog most European speakers of English, with exceptions precious few and far between.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

By filling them with pierogi, bigos, assorted golabki and other heart attacks on a plate?
Hmmm, I take it then you're referring exclusively to Polish women:-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

See my private message. You're on the money, Tacitus.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

I concur.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

The best way to a person's heart is through their stomach:-) Rich needed to expand his waistline!

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

I qualified my answer with "foreign language majors". The latter are scarcely your rank-and-file Anglophones, forced into learning high school foreign language requirements! However, for the masses, at least here in the States, I would have to agree, unfortunately.

Method aside though, we don't as often hear about lazy Europeans who speak lousy English:-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Yet, Delph, can you or anybody name us a country such as the former GDR that successfully made that transition from "planned" to "market" economy?

In complete honesty, I can't think of one! Slovenia comes close, yet still hasn't quite attained the level of capitalist neighbors.
Hungary under "Goulash" Communism? Maybe, yet still a tough sell from my point of view.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

The only difference is that Poles, French, Germans, the whole bunch, are literally inculcated, year after year after bloody year with mind-numbing hack English instruction by sinecure monsters sponsored through state-sponsored bribery to even get such government jobs! Typically, they are native speakers of their mother language, not English, and consequently, Europeans in this case, learn English with no particular desire to "sound like" Anglophone out of some desire to reproduce the aesthetics of the English tongue!

A skilled and diligent Anglo-Saxon foreign language major at university from the UK or the US is a different animal all together. They are in my experience from college often ravenous to devour as much of the best which foreign languages have to offer.

Therefore, many on the whole speak a foreign language better than their foreign interlocutor knows English.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

In studying Korean, for example, one learns to communicate in the client's language!
Remember that old wisdom. The most important language in the world is neither English, nor Chinese, nor Russian, nor Spanish, but the language the customer speaks:-)

The "payback" as you call it, is the satisfaction of knowing that one is contributing to an increasingly global economy. Look how many Koreans study English. Yet how many native Anglophones learn Korean! It's all a matter of supply vs. demand. The demand for foreign language speakers world wide is increasing, more today than ever, only folks such as you don't know it.

Your observations are short sighted at best, in a word, typically American.

My analogy before was meant to say that you can try through years of study to turn a Polish speaker into a future English speaker, not though into an English thinker. You can take the boy out of the country......

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

As a matter of fact, Russian, and not German or even English, was the daughter's major at university at the time.
Her goal was to become a foreign language correspondent upon graduation:-)

When we met, she introduced herself as Annuszka.
I did drive, but not in Europe and actually train service was better than I had expected.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

Oh, I agree in theory!
But ya can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, it ain't gonna happen...in our lifetime anyway:-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

I guess I was referring more to the that time BRD:-)

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

In fact, kaprys, Bartek would take us, his wife and daughter, along to Szczecin for shopping.As far as how I "entertained" myself for just two weeks or so, like any visit, I would join the family in whatever they did. As Annuszka was a teen ager and I was in my early thirties, I mostly spent time on my own, taking any of the local buses into town.

As it was intended to be a sort of language "immersion"/vacation excursion, I enjoyed discussing current events with Bartek to the extent that my Polish would allow. In addition, since it was barely just under two hours to Berlin by train, towards the last day of my stay, I took a bus into Berlin, spent several hours there, and than arrived back to Bartek's house (can't recall the name of the village to save my lifeLOL) more or less in time for podwieczorek:-)

Still in touch with the family, although for mostly family reasons, I haven't returned to Poland in so long.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Just curious, B.B. Would you consider one of your former Chancellors, the late Dr. Erhard, to be an "austerity" leader?

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

@Rich,
Language dissection is no end captivating, I must roundly disagree! Furthermore, NO country will ever become "completely" any-other-language speaking apart from her own mother tongue. Yours is a pipemare aka pipe dream nightmare, because language is actually little more than a thought process in the long run, and NOT merely a speech utterance:-)

If you bother to inform yourself concerning linguistics prior to posting flip answers, read Pinkert, Chomsky, Vygotsky and others concerning both the development as well as the practical application of language in everyday life. A Polish speaker speaking English, is still thinking in Polish with English coming out.

Multiply that by any other country's language!

@Wincig,

Exactly right. You took the words from out of my mouth. Just because Rich believes that nearly every country will soon becoming English speaking, that surely doesn't mean that it will necessarily also be English thinking.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Fru Thunberg is seen by many, both abroad, perhaps at home as well, as some sort of tool or spokesperson for the Climate Change Movement, whose words are solely politically motivated.

While I'm not quite as cynical as some, it's only natural to be suspicious of anybody's motives which seem so pure:-)

@Spike,
What you say makes a degree of sense, but again, we'll simply have to wait and see what happens.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

Perhaps that's why, Rich!

I'm presently learning Korean. Asking my native-born teacher about particles in Korean would almost be like asking the everyday, even educated, American
English native speaker to describe for a foreigner when to use tenses.
Unless you're an English TEACHER, chances are you won't know and you won't care much since it's second nature to you:-)

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

?? I couldn't have had a more relaxing, not to mention, comfortable time, kaprys!
Odd how you came to the exact opposite conclusion without even knowing what it was actually like:-)
I not only found how practical my Polish turned out to be, as nobody in the household really knew much coherent English, but as it happens, the brother-in-law had lived in

Berlin for a number of years, and so spoke fluent German. If ever I was at a loss for a Polish word, he could supply the German.

I had a chance to socialize some with their neighbors, and so on the whole, it was a lovely experience. Furthermore, Monika, Bartek's wife, was a fabulous cook. I imagine

she still is.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Spike,
Just how would said "disassemblage" then take place?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

I maintain that a Polexit would be an even more disastrous, precipitously unthought out move for Poland than Brexit for Britain.
The former would merely be shooting herself in the foot!

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

@kaprys,
I was in Poland for a total of two weeks, several hours in Szczecin this is true, subsequently though, on the outskirts of town at the home of my Polish teacher's brother-in-law! Albeit not a long time in the scheme of things, yet more than enough for my purposes at the time as well as my pocket bookLOL

Surely, perfunctory comments about their own home town oughtn't have been that overwhelming for those whom we met and preferred to speak English. I can only attribute their reaction to cultural differences.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

Undoubtedly for me, the biggest problem with Polish remains my frequent doubts as to when to apply perfective vs. imperfective verb forms:-) For whatever reason, vocabulary, even the counting, doesn't confound me to the same extent.

Rather as with German, the language with which I grew up and currently teach, unlike Polish, foreign learners must decide when (often why) certain verbs take their respective cases. In Polish, as an adult foreigner learner (being nearly thirty before my first Polish lesson!) I continue to grapple with those aspectual issues.

Then again, I can only speak for myself.

Life / Are Poles flashy? [11]

As I leaf through popular magazines such as Wprost, Polish politicians seems no more immodest than most other politicians! Perhaps flashy isn't the word I'd use, but demure, never!!

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

@kaprys, I think you underestimate the need for public relations right off the bat. Not everybody will react as you suggest they might.
You also make the assumption that the average Pole off the streets will necessarily know "good" English, at least good enough for an intelligent, pleasant conversation. This is a nice thought, and yet, at least when I was there last, not always the reality.

Granted, most foreigners will be initially shy, perhaps uncomfortable about speaking with strangers in another language. And yet, if such be the case, why not politely admit same, rather than continue with the charade that they really do understand more English than actually is the case?

When I was visiting Szczecin, I was with a German lady friend who spoke no Polish, we were both in our early '30's and were wearing knapsacks. We met up casually with some local students, who, hearing of course that neither I nor Corinne were Polish, began to speak English. Fine. I offered to switch back to Polish if it were easier, to which the one student replied that the group was perfectly happy to continue in English. I then made some remarks about what a lovely Old Town there was, when one of the group hesitated, and said "Oh, maybe it's old. But nobody knows it..."

It was clear that the conversation was above their heads, but, as my travelling partner only spoke English and German, I kept the conversation going for as long as we could. It was like pulling teeth:-)

Work / Moving to Poland from Ireland - starting a professional life [32]

There is much to be said about what Atch stated, in my experience at any rate.
The Irish certainly see themselves as having the proverbial gift for gab, at certain almost devil-may-care way about them, not given to the Poles, who had years of

oppressive Communism, something Ireland was thankfully spared.

Generally, the Poles I've met here in the States, particularly those entrenched in middle age, never struck me a particularly happy lot, nothing that smoking and

a good shot of wodka couldn't cure.

Again however, these are cultural stereotypes, yet are such given the fact that a large number seem to fit that description.

The millennials though are a different matter, I will agree.

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

In large part agree, Lenka.
Language learning is always a work in progress, no matter how good on is (...or thinks they are)!
If I choose to continue speaking Polish while my Polish interlocutor insists, even claims to adamantly prefer, to speak in English, there is probably a good reason for it:-)

I've been to Europe, lived there, and spent time there over the course of nearly a decade in years past, and have been on occasion more than happy to allow my partner to practice their English, if I could in all truthfulness say to myself, that this person understands where I'm "coming from" with basically native-speaker fluency in order that I can express myself as comfortably as I could with a fellow Yank from back home. In my long experience, that happened only once, maybe twice, in Austria, when I was visiting grad school friends from Krems.

Point 2 is right on the money!

Work / Moving to Poland from Ireland - starting a professional life [32]

@Atch, while I realize I'm being awfully rude by preempting your question on Irish1234's behalf, one of the major differences I've observed between Irish and Poles, is that the former are typically one to joke wonderfully and openly about being a Catholic! They have, so it seems, not only the gift of gab, but more important, a talent for self-deprecating wit.

The Poles, at least those I've known and with whom I'm still in contact, really don't joke about their faith! They tend to take it much more seriously and ritualistically, particularly when speaking with strangers aka foreigners.

Sorry about that:-)

Work / Moving to Poland from Ireland - starting a professional life [32]

Aside from the fact that you're both Catholic, I'd imagine the more subtle cultural differences take a while to get used to....even if you end up speaking English between you.

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

True enough, and yet I found those with whom I'd spoken pretended perhaps not to notice.
If honesty were the eternal touchstone of any, even superficial, relationship, I figure we'd all kill one another in fit of uncontrolled pique:-)

If someone's goal is to visit another country, particularly if they're a native Anglophone, and immerse themselves in both the language and the culture, not merely to meet someone of the opposite sex, it's especially important to use whatever ruses necessary to ensure that agenda! What harm would be done, if say, you and I met at random, anonymously on the streets of your home town, and you, hearing I was foreigner, decided to switch to English, whereupon I maintained the desire to continue speaking in Polish?

Merely a blow to your sensitive ego, no more, no less.

Life / How to really meet Polish people in Poland and actually socialize with people in their Late 20s/Early 30s? [34]

Best way in any non-native country to "socialize" with the locals in their language, and not, as you post, with other ex-pats, is to do what I did when I was a student traveler, and simply avoid the company and/or contact with those from your own country. I'd go to local bars, outdoor events which don't seem dodgy, attend movies, and in essence, hang out with as many Poles as you possibly can.

If your further goal is to improve your Polish skills, that might be hard in large city, being as today far more people want to practice their English than I was last there in the late '90's, and at least basic Polish was an absolute must!

What I would recommend is to politely feign non-comprehension if your partner insists on speaking English, maintaining the "fiction" that it would be easier for both parties if you guys stuck to Polish:-)

I was last in Europe in 2008, and the ploy somehow worked.