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Polish treasures in Sweden?


passivus 1 | 3
22 Jul 2019 #1
I understand that when Sweden was a major Baltic power, they invaded Poland and also carried away many treasures from Poland, some of which are now in Swedish museums. I think one such treasure was a metal statue of an auroch. Can any members throw light on these issues. Also are there any attempts by the Polish authorities to recover these national treasures which were looted and are now stored and admired overseas?
kaprys 2 | 1,915
22 Jul 2019 #2
@passivus
I think there have been some attempts to regain these goods but as usually in vain -just like in case of other exhibits stored in museums worldwide.

As for the loot, a hunting horn made of a horn of the last auroch living in Poland was looted. I don't know if there is any statue of an auroch among the exhibits.

I think they also stole some valuables from Krzyztopor - I must have read about it somewhere.

But they left some cannon balls at Jasna Góra. You can still see them.
Tacitus 2 | 889
22 Jul 2019 #3
Kind of difficult to solve this anyway when one of these conflicts was basically a conflict between a Polish king claiming the crown of Sweden vs another foreign claimant.

Most of the looted treasures belonged to Polish aristocrats, and most decidely not to the Polish state (the Polish aristocrats were insistent on this).
Lyzko 24 | 6,801
22 Jul 2019 #4
As the realm of the Vasa extended well beyond her own native domain, not too much of a stretch that, as with the Hanseatic League, the Swedes might indeed have plundered Polish national icons.
Crow 137 | 7,756
22 Jul 2019 #5
Swedes are dirty thieves. Good that you Poles joined force with Russians and kicked Swedes in time, when they tried to scr** you totally.
Lyzko 24 | 6,801
22 Jul 2019 #6
Ohhhho, Crow!
Be careful before you castigate your Swedish "brethren". After all, wasn't Rurik, the "first " Slav, actually an ancestor of the Swedes??!
:-)
pawian 161 | 9,971
22 Jul 2019 #7
Also are there any attempts by the Polish authorities to recover these national treasures

No, there`s no way and no Polish government has ever tried to. The reason is simple: when Sweden attacked and occupied Polish territory, it wasn`t solely Poland but the Commonwealth - Poland united with Lithuania. Formally, today`s Poland has no right to represent the Commonwealth in court. Also, Tacitus is right about aristocratic or royal property.

some of which are now in Swedish museums.

A Swede tried to explain it to me. It doesn`t matter in which museum they are - Polish or Swedish. What matters is that they didn`t disappear or get destroyed during all wars, risings and occupations which happened in Poland during next 300 years after the Swedish Deluge. They have been preserved as the heritage of European culture and that matters most.
Lyzko 24 | 6,801
22 Jul 2019 #8
Absolutely correct, paw!

If anything, the onus lies with Sweden who may well have '"purloined" said artifacts, as I already posted earlier.
It was once again, Sweden, not Poland, which had considerable trading hegemony throughout much of Europe during the 17th, up through the middle 19th century, only to be overtaken (with a vengeance, I might add) by Germany:-)
Congress
22 Nov 2019 #9
Well, the matter of looting was settled at the time of the Vienna congress 1815. As a result of the congress, you can not reclaim loot prior to 1815.
Lyzko 24 | 6,801
22 Nov 2019 #10
Yep, yep, yepski! Ol' Metternich was a smart one:-)

By the by, Congress person, be ye Swede or Pole aka friend or enemy? Only kidding.
lol
jon357 63 | 14,255
28 Nov 2019 #11
settled at the time of the Vienna congress 1815.

Indeed. And even if it hadn't been, most of the items have now been in Sweden longer than they ever were in Poland.
Lenka 3 | 1,514
28 Nov 2019 #12
And that makes it ok? So if someone steals your car after you had it for half a year and keeps it for a year it should become his?
jon357 63 | 14,255
28 Nov 2019 #13
your car

Yes, it makes it very OK. It isn't a car, nor is it any other sort of recent purchase or acquisition. It's about items that have been in Sweden for a very very long time. If there was a legal or moral case for returning them (which there isn't), every country that had ever been in a war would have to part with items (including a few exhibits in the Muzeum Narodowy).

And it's isn't as if there's any particular fondness or sense of loss in Poland for minor items that haven't been there since centuries before living memory.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,560
28 Nov 2019 #14
war would have to part with their historical items.

I'm shocked Jon , I never took you for a supporter of imperialism, guess it's down to your roots where your country enslaved and pillaged most of the globe, so the Greeks won't bet their marbles back any time soon?
jon357 63 | 14,255
28 Nov 2019 #15
"I'm shocked"
No you aren't!

imperialism

What imperialism? It was a war between two countries, both regional powers, both monarchies, both with large territories.

your country

Yours too!

Greeks won't bet their marbles

There's a strong moral case for the various countries that have Parthenon Marbles to return them (and I'd support this). There isn't however a legal case, since they (at least the ones in London) were bought, to save them from destruction, rather than plundered.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,560
28 Nov 2019 #16
Yours too!

Yeah cos I was born there , no worries , but sorry my family suffered and lost to imperialism, as Lenka suggested let me know where you park you car , I can steal it for a very long time and it will be mine.

Please don't let it be a prius.


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