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Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?



_Fiish_ 2 | 9    
18 Feb 2009  #1

From a polish perspective what did you what did you learn about in school about The ghetto's and The Jewish camps in Poland since 1938.

Particulary Auschwitz.
Im really interested in history, and I was wondering if anyone actually from Poland tell me about what they learnt about these subjects?


Bzibzioh    
18 Feb 2009  #2

The ghetto's and The Jewish camps in Poland since 1938.

Well, we learn that there were no ghettos and Jewish camps in Poland in 1938 :)

I was wondering if anyone actually from Poland tell me about what they learnt about these subjects?

It was and still is part of school curriculum to go to Auschwitz at least twice. We know much more than average American student.
OP _Fiish_ 2 | 9    
18 Feb 2009  #3

But...there was?
Why don't you learn about them??????? :o
Bzibzioh    
18 Feb 2009  #4

But...there was?

In 1938?
osiol 55 | 3,927    
18 Feb 2009  #5

Ghetto is not as easy a term to grasp as "camp" (often accompanied by words like concentration, extermination or death). Ghettos have existed for a very long time, but have varied from being something close to the "camp" type of thing, so simply areas of Jewish communities where people have chosen to live together in close proximity. 1938, as Bzibzioh has pointed out, is a little too early to study the nastier side of things. To understand the situation before WWII with regards to Jewish communities in Europe, and specifically Poland, it is necessary to look further back than just before WWII.
Easy_Terran 3 | 309    
18 Feb 2009  #6

Why don't you learn about them??????? :o

What is it? A provocation?
Now you're gonna preach primitive, naive and ignorant locals about their unknown history?
Davey 13 | 389    
18 Feb 2009  #7

1938

the war didn't start until 1939, which must be the cause of your confusion
1jola 14 | 1,893    
18 Feb 2009  #8

Fiish,

We learned that the ghettos were established by the Germans. They were run by the Judenrat. They were policed by the Jewish police, who were very cruel to their fellow men. In 1942, the deportations started. The Jewish police helped the Germans to load the trains to Treblinka. If you are Jewish, you might want to drop the subject, or you will find out things you don't want to know.

Auschwitz was established for Poles in 1940. Two years later they started shipping Jews there. Earlier, it was stated that 4 million Jews died there. Now we know that that figure was incorrect by about 3 million.

BTW, we write Polish not polish. The second one is a verb or a noun.
sjam 2 | 541    
18 Feb 2009  #9

They were policed by the Jewish police, who were very cruel to their fellow men. In 1942, the deportations started. The Jewish police helped the Germans to load the trains to Treblinka.

Where is the balance in that statement?
Did Polish teachers not teach you about the Polish 'Blueys'?

Polish 'Blueys' also helped Jewish ghetto police with deportations; policing the ghettos; extortion rackets; bribary and brutality against ghetto inhabitants? The 'Blueys' weren't standing there issuing parking tickets.

Fiish, if you are Jewish you might want to drop the subject unless you have a thick skin as many will deny the Jewish Holocaust happened at all.
Sokrates 8 | 3,352    
18 Feb 2009  #10

Polish 'Blueys' also helped Jewish ghetto police with deportations; policing the ghettos; extortion rackets; bribary and brutality against ghetto inhabitants? The 'Blueys' weren't standing there issuing parking tickets.

Of course you should mention that polish "blue pollice" would get executed down to a man if it refused, it wasnt exactly willing.

Also blue police did not help directly in the crimes, even Nazis knew that Poles couldnt be made to do some of the things they did.

Fiish, if you are Jewish you might want to drop the subject unless you have a thick skin as many will deny the Jewish Holocaust happened at all.

There is no question that it happened however Jews do overplay the numbers killed and intentionally lower the numbers and significance of murdered goys.
Harry 78 | 13,533    
18 Feb 2009  #11

The only concentration camp in Poland in 1938 was one run by the Polish government and it was for Ukrainians who objected to their country being occupied by Poland and their people being oppressed by Poland.
Sokrates 8 | 3,352    
18 Feb 2009  #12

Really ?! Where was that!
sjam 2 | 541    
18 Feb 2009  #13

Of course you should mention that polish "blue pollice" would get executed down to a man if it refused, it wasnt exactly willing.

Also blue police did not help directly in the crimes, even Nazis knew that Poles couldnt be made to do some of the things they did.

Please. The Polish 'Blueys' weren't forced into extortion rackets; taking of bribes; beatings etc., in the ghetto and neither were the Jewish Ghetto police, nor the 13's, nor the German guards; they were all willing and eager self-serving criminal participants in the exploitation and ultimate destruction of the ghetto inhabitants.

Where is your documentary evidence that the Polish 'Blueys' were forced to police the Warsaw ghetto and take part in the corruption rackets?
Harry 78 | 13,533    
18 Feb 2009  #14

Really ?! Where was that!

Bereza Kartuska concentration camp.
Sokrates 8 | 3,352    
18 Feb 2009  #15

Bereza Kartuska concentration camp

You mean Bereza Kartuska PRISON which at the height of its activity house around 7000 people 4500 ukrainian activists from OUN who were sent there for being extremist separatists and the death toll was 17 people in total attributed to natural causes and diseases ?:)

The conditions there were harsh but it was FAR from being a concentration camp.
sjam 2 | 541    
18 Feb 2009  #16

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereza_Kartuska_Detention_Camp

The inspiration for the establishment of a detention centre for political prisoners at Bereza Kartuzka came from Hermann Göring's during his visit to Poland in 1934

The number of deaths in detention was kept artificially low by releasing prisoners who were in poor health.

A number of modern non-Soviet sources have also characterized the facility as a concentration camp, including Yale University professor Timothy Snyder, the Library of Congress, and the Polish Nobel prize-winning author Czesław Miłosz.

OUN members who were incarcerated at Bereza Kartuska have testified to the use there of torture. There were frequent beatings (with boards being placed against inmates' backs and struck with hammers), forced labor, constant harassment, the use of solitary confinement without provocation, punishment for inmates' use of the Ukrainian language, etc.

Harry 78 | 13,533    
18 Feb 2009  #17

You mean Bereza Kartuska PRISON which at the height of its activity house around 7000 people 4500 ukrainian activists from OUN who were sent there for being extremist separatists and the death toll was 17 people in total attributed to natural causes and diseases ?:)

Prisons are for people who have been convicted of crimes.
Prisons are not places where torture is common.
Prisons are not places where 70 peope are put in a single cell which has no benches or tables but has a concrete floor which is constantly showered with water so that inmates can not sit.

Would you like us to talk about the post-WWII Polish concentration camps?
Prince 15 | 592    
18 Feb 2009  #18

sjam

Harry

I knew it. Place where 200 people died (including Poles) isn't Aushwitz

Would you like us to talk about the post-WWII Polish concentration camps?

Criminals who runed this camps are in Israel.
Harry 78 | 13,533    
18 Feb 2009  #19

I knew it.

You mean you knew that Poland had pre and post WWII concentration camps? Good to see that you are finally learning to accept what your country did (i.e. the good bits and the bad bits).

Place where 200 people died (including Poles) isn't Aushwitz

Quite right but:
Central Labour Camp Potulice: At least 2,915 of the inmates died (other sources mention 4,500 or 5,000 victims). From 30,211 inmates.
Central Labour Camp Jaworzno: According to 1990s research, 6,987 people died in COP Jaworzno.
Zgoda Labour Camp: This figure includes only the documented causalities, the overall toll is estimated at 2,500. The inmates were systematically maltreated and tortured.
£ambinowice Camp: It is estimated that between 1000 and 1,500 German civilians died in the camp.
Prince 15 | 592    
18 Feb 2009  #20

You mean you knew that Poland had pre and post WWII concentration camps? Good to see that you are finally learning to accept what your country did (i.e. the good bits and the bad bits).

Tell me more about Post WWII camps and give me commanders names :) Tell me why they live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish.

I don't suport conspirancy theories but it is fact that this people claim to be victimes of anti-semit plot. So if they existed (as you claim) tell me more.

Lets start: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Morel
pawian 127 | 6,581    
18 Feb 2009  #21

From a polish perspective what did you what did you learn about in school about The ghetto's and The Jewish camps in Poland since 1938.
Particulary Auschwitz.

Im really interested in history, and I was wondering if anyone actually from Poland tell me about what they learnt about these subjects?

Books about Holocaust are done at school, especially high school level. Recently we went to the theatre to see a play based on Marek Edelman`s story :Zdążyć przed Panem Bogiem. It was really thought-inspiring.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek_Edelman

There are a few other books about Holocaust on the list which students are supposed to read for Polish classes. Later high school exams include these books.
Prince 15 | 592    
18 Feb 2009  #22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Ukrainian_War

Lviv, was in 1910 17% Ukrainian and around 60% Polish, and was considered one of Poland's cultural capitals.

Spot on here ...

In Lviv the Ukrainian residents enthusiastically supported the proclamation, the city's significant Jewish minority accepted or remained neutral towards the Ukrainian proclamation, while the Polish majority was shocked to find themselves in a proclaimed Ukrainian state.

Harry 78 | 13,533    
18 Feb 2009  #23

Tell me more about Post WWII camps and give me commanders names :) Tell me why they live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish.

£ambinowice Camp: Run by Czesław Gęborski. Not Jewish. Never went to Israel. Cleared by communist-era court. Trial cancelled in post-communist era because Gęborski was feeling unwell.

Zgoda Labour Camp: Commanders were Aleksy Krut and Salomon Morel. Aleksy Krut wasn't Jewish and never visited Israel.
Potulice: Do tell us who was in charge there and where he lives/lived in Israel.
Jaworzno: Do tell us who was in charge there and where he lives/lived in Israel.
Bzibzioh    
18 Feb 2009  #24

concentration camp.

Since you are such an expert on concentration camps - care to remind me who invented them and used them first?
ShelleyS 14 | 2,900    
18 Feb 2009  #25

sjam

It's easy to judge people for what they have done, under the circumstances which we all know were harsh, I am sure many many people acted in ways they would not have imagined possible. Can you honestly say, under the same circumstances that you would not have done anything to keep your family safe, warm and fed? It's really easy to say how a person might react in a situation, but until you have walked in those shoes, you just cant.

War brings the best and the worst out in people.

Since you are such an expert on concentration camps - care to remind me who invented them and used them first?

We rounded up young male German immigrants living in the UK at the outbreak of The Great War..but we didn't starve them or beat them as far as I am aware.
miranda    
18 Feb 2009  #26

War brings the best and the worst out in people.

I have to agree with that but obviously some people will go on and on, and on about the past, as if the war itself was not part of the human condition.
Bzibzioh    
18 Feb 2009  #27

We rounded up young male German immigrants living in the UK at the outbreak of The Great War..but we didn't starve them or beat them as far as I am aware.

Don't think that's it. Will wait for Harry's expert opinion. Or not.
Harry 78 | 13,533    
18 Feb 2009  #28

Since you are such an expert on concentration camps - care to remind me who invented them and used them first?

The name was first used to describe British camps during the second Boer war. But the name would most certainly apply to camps set up by the USA in the 1830s to deal with Native Americans.

(Edit to add that the term would apparently also apply to camps set up by Spain and the USA in the Philippines prior to the British camps).
miranda    
18 Feb 2009  #29

Don't think that's it. Will wait for Harry's expert opinion. Or not.

he seems to research his info correctly and sticks to fact so I am looking forward to what he has to say.

I am more interested in facts that in opinions and sentiments.
Prince 15 | 592    
18 Feb 2009  #30

Harry

Tell me one thing. How this discriminated Jews could be commanders in "concentration camps" ? You like to talk about after WWII pogroms and so on.

Tell me why this people could make carrer in Poland :

He orgainsied this all camps: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakub_Berman

Between 1944-1956 Berman was a member of Politbiuro of Polish United Workers' Party (PUWP) responsible for Urząd Bezpieczeństwa (State Security Services), propaganda, and ideology. In this capacity he was directly responsible for Stalinist-type terror and repressions against real and imagined political opponents of the communist regime in Poland. Urząd Bezpieczeństwa prosecution of ex-Home Army members, Roman Catholic Church clergy, and purges in the military, resulted in at least 6,000 death sentences, imprisonment and prosecuction of estimated 500,000 Polish patriots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Józef_Różański

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatol_Fejgin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Brystiger

Julia Brystiger (nee Prajs), born November 25, 1902 in Stryj, died November 9, 1975 in Warsaw, was a Polish Communist activist and a member of the Stalinist apparatus. She was also known as Julia Brystygier, Bristiger, Brustiger, Briestiger, Brystygierowa, Bristigierowa, and by her nicknames Luna, Bloody Luna, Daria, Ksenia, Maria. The nickname Bloody Luna was a direct reference of her Gestapo-like methods during interrogations

After the joint Nazi and Soviet attack on Poland, Brystiger accepted Soviet Union citizenship and became an active member of the Soviet administration. She created the so-called Committee of Political Prisoners, which helped the NKVD to imprison several members of prewar Polish opposition movements . She was denouncing people on such scale, that she antagonized even Communist party members

Where is Harry ?

This person is responsible for post WWII terror and he organised this all camps:

Between 1944-1956 Berman was a member of Politbiuro of Polish United Workers' Party (PUWP) responsible for Urząd Bezpieczeństwa (State Security Services), propaganda, and ideology. In this capacity he was directly responsible for Stalinist-type terror and repressions against real and imagined political opponents of the communist regime in Poland. Urząd Bezpieczeństwa prosecution of ex-Home Army members, Roman Catholic Church clergy, and purges in the military, resulted in at least 6,000 death sentences, imprisonment and prosecuction of estimated 500,000 Polish patriots.

Berman is brother of Adolf Berman, a Zionist activist.

so Harry how this people mentioned by me could make carrer in Poland.

What is your opinion on this issue ?

I am waiting for your answer.




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