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British schoolboys very sensibly dealt with by the Poland's authorities after theft in Auschwitz


Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
23 Jun 2015 #1
Hats off to the Polish authorities, for dealing with this misdeameanour toute de suite, even though there was no real reason for the schoolboys arrested for picking up historical fragments from the grounds at Auschwitz to be imprisoned overnight.

bbc.com/news/uk-33237625

I assume they will be getting six of the best from the headmaster?



Lyzko 25 | 7,139
23 Jun 2015 #2
At best, a sound and harsh reprimand would have been sufficient!

It is my opinion that the flagrantly thoughtless behavior of the boys perfectly reflects the often lackadaisical manner in which the Holocaust is presented in certain countries. Take Austria, even Russia, for example. Until the plug was finally pulled, the former allowed a company to issue a board game in which one team would be the prisoners, the opposing, the concentration camp guards etc... Perhaps this is the root of Holocaust denial as well as other acts of rampant anti-Semitism.

The above is only one man's point of view.
jon357 63 | 15,214
23 Jun 2015 #3
I assume they will be getting six of the best from the headmaster?

With any luck. At least they didn't remove the bits of button or whatever it was.

Amazing they could just pick stuff up there though.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
23 Jun 2015 #4
Jon,

When I visited the Dachau Memorial Site many years ago, the lax way in which the grounds were patroled was indeed curious. I could almost touch the barbed wire inside the gates and grab any one of the pebbles lying on the soil.

Makes one wonder as to the maintenance issues at such places:-)
OP Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
23 Jun 2015 #5
Take Austria

Mmmm. Less said.............. I wonder if they respect the concentration camps and other holocaust sites in the same way as Poland does.

The British press though, as usual, forget to mention the enormous numbers of Polish catholics who were murdered in Auschwitz, my wife's grandfather being just one.

These public schoolboys probably didn't engage brain. That horrible place does strange things to your mind.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
23 Jun 2015 #6
True enough, yet the very experience being commemorated is so ghastly as to seemingly preclude the random lifting of even the strayest of stray objects. A concentration camp site is exactly that, sacred ground, hallowed soil, preserved for one and one purpose only, NOT for one's own prurient purposes such as a photo op, an ice-cream "break" or (shudder) the discoteque idea once proposed by the Polish government in a misguided attempt to extract state revenue from Auschwitz aka 'Ośwęcim'.

Barbaric!
jon357 63 | 15,214
23 Jun 2015 #7
NOT for one's own prurient purposes such as a photo op, an ice-cream "break" or (shudder) the discoteque idea

Yes. Some visitors even do 'selfies'...
OP Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
23 Jun 2015 #8
PS: I apologise for the Obamaesque " their concentration camps." Please edit MODS. No offence intended.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
23 Jun 2015 #9
No offence taken:-)

Apropos "Whose Camp was it anyway?", clearly Germany bore the brunt of the atrocities. After all, to be historically accurate, Auschwitz was NOT in Poland, but rather in Nazi-occupied Poland, i.e. Nazi GERMANY!! The Poles. many at least, were simply willing accomplices to German-sanctioned and administrated mass murder!!
isittime
1 Sep 2015 #10
Time to tear down the place and turn the page?

"Auschwitz 'showers' offend some visitors to the former Nazi camp"
"Because of the extreme heat wave we have experienced in August in Poland, mist sprinklers which cool the air were placed near the entrance to the Museum," the Auschwitz Memorial Facebook page said. Temperatures soared to the low 100s over the weekend."

""As a Jew who has lost so many relatives in the Holocaust, they looked like the showers that the Jews were forced to take before entering the gas chambers," Meir Bulka told the Jerusalem Post.

"All the Israelis felt this was very distasteful," he said. "Someone called it a 'Holocaust gimmick.'""
OP Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
1 Sep 2015 #11
Time to tear down the place and turn the page?

Er.... no is the answer to that. Protected by international law. Poland has to maintain the site. An element of visiting jewry clearly are as odd and nationalistic as their Polish conservative counterparts and really shouldn't be heard, unless they have something sensible to contribute.
isittime
1 Sep 2015 #12
Dougpol1 , is Poland receiving international funds to upkeep? The Nazi concentration camps should remain in Germany IMO. I am not necessarily for tearing it down but could be persuaded. Could you estimate what percentage of citizens in Poland would be in favor of ending it?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
1 Sep 2015 #13
Perhaps you should remember that Auschwitz was also the scene of the murder of nearly 400,000 Polish citizens.
isittime
1 Sep 2015 #14
Yes, Millions of Poles perished in WW2. Does the camp encourage foreigners with Polish background to make their first visit to Poland - yes. But it is also used as a manipulation tool because most Israeli's/Jews on these tours are only visiting historic Jewish areas and even questioning the native culture.

Polish History didn't start with WW2 and this seems to be lost in Western culture.
jon357 63 | 15,214
2 Sep 2015 #15
Polish History didn't start with WW2 and this seems to be lost in Western culture.

It isn't lost, however people do not visit that site because they want to learn about something else. A bit like not 'learning about' the wild west when you go to New York.

Worth mentioning that most visitors go there while staying at Krakow.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
30 Dec 2015 #16
theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/two-british-teenagers-to-face-auschwitz-theft-trial-says-prosecutor
Cough.

My thread title was " British schoolboys dealt with sensibly by authorities in Oswiecim.."

Typically, it seems that the boys are now going to be prosecuted. Apparently British advisors advised them to change their plea to not guilty to theft, and now the Poles are going to charge them with theft from a war protected site.

They have already been punished, and shamed.

Absolutely pathetic, and the prosecutors need something...... (DISCLAIMER: the word I'm thinking of also starts with an S - but is a colloquial term and not be taken literally)
dolnoslask
30 Dec 2015 #17
Yeah dougpo I got to agree with you, this is a matter of education and not prosecution, again doug kids without the knowledge of our fathers, no one seems to be teaching them.

Probably more our fault and not theirs.
Ironside 49 | 10,301
30 Dec 2015 #18
Other people who committed the same crime were sentenced to two years in prison (suspended sentence) and a fine.
pweeg3
31 Dec 2015 #19
Apparently British advisors advised them to change their plea to not guilty to theft, and now the Poles are going to charge them with theft from a war protected site.

If they plead not guilty then they have not been punished, a trail is inevitable. To avoid a trial they would have to admit guilt and contrition.
dolnoslask
31 Dec 2015 #20
Makes me wonder what the teachers explained to them before the trip, Sounds like they did nothing to explain the sensitivity or the history of this place, but most importantly they should have told them how they should behave while on site, and the consequences that go with any desecration and disrespect of the millions that died there.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
31 Dec 2015 #21
Absolutely - but the British moneyed classes are dim-witted stay away parents - and nanny didn't think it was her place to tell Harry how to behave.....

PS people shouldnt be admitted before the age of 17 - first Matura year. Earlier than that, their minds can't take in the gravitas of the location.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,154
31 Dec 2015 #22
Maybe you're right Dolnoslask, but I find it hard to believe that they weren't given advice on behaviour if nothing else.
Sounds to me like they were just very thoughtless and didn't realise the implications of what they did.
Why they were advised to change their plea I don't know. They were fined, given suspended sentences and that should have been the end of it.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
31 Dec 2015 #23
They were fined, given suspended sentences and that should have been the end of it.

Again, bang on.

they have not been punished,

They were punished, and their names would have been reported in the UK press. This is why daddy wants them exonerated.
Whoever daddy is - money wont help here, and the families are obviously stupid to go back on the acceptance of a caution and fine.
dolnoslask
31 Dec 2015 #24
I think the problem is that when they returned to the UK, either they or their parents realized what the possible long term effect that their convictions would have on their future lives / career opportunities, hence seeking out legal advice to try and overturn the Polish courts, the only winners here will be the lawyers i think.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,154
31 Dec 2015 #25
I think you're right Dolnoslask, but it's backfired badly.
They were minors when they received their punishment first time round, so I doubt it would have had any serious effect on their future prospects, but by the time this comes to trial, they will be adults, and therefore they will have criminal records.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
31 Dec 2015 #26
their parents realized what the possible long term effect that their convictions would have on their future lives / career opportunities

Yes - although it was a silly mistake made by schoolboys...I made a few stupid mistakes myself as a schoolboy and look where I am now..................

Oh wait............ in cavernous Dougpol Mansions on the windy Baltic in minus 5, with only dog and Budweiser for company....
So I see what you mean.

By that token, the parents are doing what any parent would try to do - protect their child's interests. I was going to say that nobody died - but that would be wholly inappropriate in the circumstances.

Just over zealous schoolboys. That place definitely does have a deep effect on the psyche and once was more than enough. Today, all of us get to leave Auschwitz after a couple of hours, and we must never forget.

I think the Polish authorities are being pedantic here - they should simply log the change of plea, find them guilty in abstentia, and issue a statement that such behaviour will be thelegal responsibility of the school, and then move on.

But Polish lawyers (aka the establishment) have to heat their countryside spoiling villas, so the ridiculous merry-go-round has to turn as you said Dolno.
G (undercover)
31 Dec 2015 #27
Jezus, dude If they claim to be not guilty, there need to be a trail. They got a chance to get away with it quite easily and they fecked it up.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,845
31 Dec 2015 #28
the British moneyed classes are dim-witted stay away parents

interestingly one doesnt become one of the "moneyed" class by being dim witted. Just saying.
dolnoslask
31 Dec 2015 #29
Well I guess they were from a posh school with posh parents, maybe no future job In MI5 for them, but financially they will be ok

Tell me Dougpo what did you do wrong to get Exiled to the Baltic minus 5 (Joking), Its Minus 4 here, they said we would see the northern lights down here, did you see anything up your end.
Tictactoe
31 Dec 2015 #30
Who cares. For all anyone knows they might even have Polish heritage, you don't know they might !!.

Posh or poor they are no better than the people making money out of such a dreadful crime scene, which is what it is. So before the Polish government get all moral they should look at themselves, keeping such a place open to the public its distasteful and it needs to go.

It should be torn down and a monument of peace erected in its place and the souls of those who walked the halls and lost their life's rest in peace and it not be a Disneyland of mass killing.


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