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Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?


Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #121
This little pig Harry wants to connect after WWII commie camps with WWII German camps.

Non of them were Polish. Ask those who sold Poland in Yalta about this post WWII Soviet camps build by NKVD and by right Stalins hand in Poland - Jakub Berman.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakub_Berman

As to WWII camps they were German operated.

Don't feed Harry.
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #122
This little pig Harry

Good to see that you have to rely on personal abuse now that your statements have been exposed as anti-semitic lies.

wants to connect after WWII commie camps with WWII German camps.

Do you deny that both the Jaworzno and Zgoda Polish concentration camps were formerly sub-camps of Auschwitz?

None of them were Polish.

The post-WWII concentration camps in Poland were run by Poles at the order of Poles. They were Polish.

Ask those who sold Poland in Yalta

Know the names of any good mediums? Churchill and Roosevelt are both dead....

about this post WWII Soviet camps build by NKVD and by right Stalin hand in Poland Berman (Google this name).

As has already been stated: the post-WWII Polish concentration camps were built by the Nazis. Poles just decided to make use of the existing facilities.

As to WWII camps they were German opperated.

Yes they were.

Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish". Either that or admit that you have been telling anti-semitic lies.
sjam 2 | 541
19 Feb 2009 #123
I am sure they did, even though Kossak- Szczucka was ani- semitic - that is very Christian;)

Miranda your point was that:

don't mix religion with it. She was a good person because she was a good person, not because she was a Christian.

and my reply showed quite clearly that religious belief did play a part in her actions for good. So mixing religion with it was not mixing but a fact borne out in action.

And yet despite being an openly antisemite Kossak- Szczucka did not believe that Polish Jews should be treated as less than human. I see no conflict with this view and she was not trying to murder them or extort money from them in fact she did the opposite. So what does that tell you!

What was the penalty for smuggling? What was the penalty for aiding Jews?

German threats of execution didn't seem to stop women like Irena Sendlerowa or Zofia Kossak-Szczucka saving several thousand Polish Jews from death. They were not they only ones. Just read He Who Saves One Life by Kazimierz Iranek-Osmecki and you will see not every Pole was out to extort from the Polish Jews no matter what the very real German threats were for doing so.
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #124
I understand, but why do you have to do it on this thread.

I am attempting to discuss Auschwitz and what happened to parts of it after the war. Therefore this is the correct thread because this thread asks about Auschwitz.
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #125
You are manipulative and provocative but we play in one team. :)

Poles just decided to make use of the existing facilities.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakub_Berman

Between 1944-1956 Berman was a member of Politbiuro of Polish United Workers' Party (PUWP) responsible for Urząd Bezpieczeństwa (State Security Services), propaganda, and ideology. In this capacity he was directly responsible for Stalinist-type terror and repressions against real and imagined political opponents of the communist regime in Poland. Urząd Bezpieczeństwa prosecution of ex-Home Army members, Roman Catholic Church clergy, and purges in the military, resulted in at least 6,000 death sentences, imprisonment and prosecuction of estimated 500,000 Polish patriots.

Berman is brother of Adolf Berman, a Zionist activist.

Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Morel

In 1998, an extradition request for Morel was rejected by Israel. A reply sent to the Polish Justice Ministry from Israeli authorities said that Israel would not extradite Mr Morel .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Wolińska-Brus

Helena Wolińska-Brus (1919-2008) (born as Fajga Mindla Danielak) was a former military prosecutor from Poland, involved in Stalinist regime show trials of the 1950s.She has been implicated in the arrests - and in some cases deaths - of key figures in Poland's anti-Nazi resistance. From 1999-2008, Poland had been seeking the extradition of Wolińska from the United Kingdom to stand trial in Poland.

Wolińska was born in a Polish Jewish family in Warsaw.

In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Wolińska said she would not return to "the country of Auschwitz and Birkenau", claiming she would not receive fair trial in Poland. Despite her involvement in Stalinist-era crimes she called to forget that period in her life and, in her own words, "not to disrupt her with this silly prosecution"

Of course there were oppositionists with Jewish origin, and "ethnic" Polish commies.
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #126
You are manipulative and provocative but we play in one team. :)

You are a plain and simple liar.

Between 1944-1956 Berman ......

An excellent quote (forgive me for not repeating it in full) but one that says nothing about who built the Polish concentration camps. Do you deny that both the Jaworzno and Zgoda Polish concentration camps were formerly sub-camps of Auschwitz?

Harry: Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish".

a) Helena Wolińska didn't run concentration camps.
b) Helena Wolińska didn't live in Israel.
c) Helena Wolińska didn't pretend to be Israeli.
d) Salomon Morel is one camp commander. You said "the men". Who are the others?
e) Salomon Morel doesn't live in Israel.
f) You haven't named a single person other than Morel who commanded a Polish concentration camp.
g) You haven't named a single person other than Morel who commanded a Polish concentration camp and lived in Israel.
h) Are you going to name the the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish" or are you going to admit to telling anti-semitic lies?
miranda
19 Feb 2009 #127
I admire that in her, however her being openly anti-semitic does not hold well when Christian values come into play. However, I have nothing but respect for Polish people, who helped Jews during the WW2. Many of them will probably remain unknown. I also understand that during those time Polish people were oppressed by Germans, which made it even harder to think of helping others when their own lives were at stake.
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #128
Harry you are povocartive and you are looking for excuse to use "Polish concentration camp"

I am realy sorry but this camps are offcialy called "Stalinist camps" because they were operated by Stalinists from different countries with different ethnic background.

Camps from WWII :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_death_camp

UNESCO change the official name of Auschwitz from "Auschwitz Concentration Camp" to "former Nazi German concentration camp Auschwitz-Birkenau" in order to make clearer that the concentration camp was built and operated by the Germans.

Lets stick to official names of this camps. This issues has been debated by UNESCO. You can take your lies with you. You can writte to UNESCO and use your debate skills :)
sjam 2 | 541
19 Feb 2009 #129
Yes, who?

The food smugglers were mainly Jewish children from the ghetto itself not Poles. Though there is one excellent memoir of a non-jewish boy joining the Jewish boys smuggling food from on the 'Aryan' side into the ghetto, but he was not taking gold or other payments for his smuggling. Title escapes me.
1jola 14 | 1,879
19 Feb 2009 #130
Pay attention to the second paragraph.

"Of the 318 people working for Ganzweich, 300 formed the “police force,” [not to be confused with the much larger Jewish order police which reported to the Jewish council], eight were employed as drivers, motor-car mechanics and in similar honest occupations, and the rest were lawyers, who formed a court that went through the legal motions of trying people guilty of profiteering and blackmarketeering. In fact, only a few small bakers, butchers and smugglers were heavily fined or kept in The Thirteen’s prison until they paid up. The 300 policemen performed the functions of an American gangster’s hoodlums and with their help Ganzweich forced all the important businessmen in the ghetto, irrespective of whether they were honest or dishonest, to pay him protection money, which he shared with his Gestapo patrons.

As practically everything needed in the ghetto had to be smuggled in, Ganzweich’s protection racket also extended to this vital activity. Before any article could be brought into the ghetto, bribes had to be paid to the Polish police, the ghetto police and to officials of the German Crminal Police, and even then there was no guarantee that it would reach the ghetto, for a German gendarme patrolling around its walls might seize it. However, if one paid protection money to The Thirteen, the article was certain to reach the ghetto without any other bribes being paid."


70 Reuben Ainsztein, The Warsaw Ghetto Revolt (New York: Holocaust Library, 1979), 9–16, 88; Reuben
Ainsztein, Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe (London: Paul Elek, 1974), 557–63.

So who was extorting who?
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #131
I am realy sorry but this camps are offcialy called "Stalinist camps" because they were opperated by Stalinists from different countries with different ethnic background.

Don't lie. UNESCO haven't said a word about the names of the post-WWII Polish concentration camps.

And the 'official' name for these camps does not include the word "Stalinist". Centralny Obóz Pracy w Jaworznie = Central Labour Camp Jaworzno

ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/2/71

Centralny Obóz Pracy w Potulicach = Central Labour Camp Potulice
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Labour_Camp_Potulice

Obóz Pracy Świętochłowice-Zgoda = Świętochłowice-Zgoda Labour Camp
ipn.gov.pl/portal.php?serwis=pl&dzial=239&id=3758&poz=3

Obóz Pracy w £ambinowicach = £ambinowice Labour Camp
cmjw.pl/www/index_gb.php?id=oboz_prac

Are you going to name the the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish" or are you going to admit to telling anti-semitic lies?
1jola 14 | 1,879
19 Feb 2009 #132
Title escapes me.

You operate with no sources whatsoever, pumpkin.
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #133
Harry I love this debate :)

I like debate you provoke but just read first link you posted.

ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/2/71
First words:

Response by the State of Israel to the application for the extradition of Salomon Morel and a report by Dr. Adam Dziurok and Prosecutor Andrzej Majcher on the subject of Salomon Morel and the history and operation of the camp at Świętochłowice-Zgoda.

:)))
1jola 14 | 1,879
19 Feb 2009 #134
So they were Polish labor camps, not Polish concentration camps.

I'm glad we got that settled. Good day, sir!
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #135
I did indeed read the link. And nowhere in it is there information that the official name of the Polish concentration camp at Świętochłowice-Zgoda was the "Stalinist concentration camp at Świętochłowice-Zgoda". In other words, you have been proved to be lying when you claimed that the official name of the Polish concentration camp at Świętochłowice-Zgoda was the "Stalinist concentration camp at Świętochłowice-Zgoda".

Are you going to name the the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish" or are you going to admit to telling anti-semitic lies?
miranda
19 Feb 2009 #136
hey, I think that he did name Salomon Morel who ended up in Israel. What is your point Harry. I am just sticking to the facts here.
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #137
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

Poland has been sold in Yalta by Allies. 500 000 of Polish people were arrested.

You can't claim this camps to be Polish as long as Poland was Sovied occupied.

Maybe you claim American prisons in Iraq to be Iraqis :)
1jola 14 | 1,879
19 Feb 2009 #138
The Potulice concentration camp was established during World War II by German state authorities in occupied Poland in Potulice near Nakło. It is notable as a detention centre for Polish children that underwent the Nazi experiment in forced Germanisation.

Central Labour Camp Potulice (Polish: Centralny Obóz Pracy w Potulicach) was a detention centre for Germans and Poles established by Polish Communist authorities after the end of World War II in Potulice, in place of the former German Nazi Potulice concentration camp. The camp was in operation since 1945 until 1950.

Harry, can't you read?
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #139
hey, I think that he did name Salomon Morel who ended up in Israel. What is your point Harry. I am just sticking to the facts here.

He claimed the men who ran the post-WWII Polish concentration camps now live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish. I pointed out that just one camp commander fits that description and asked him to provide the names of the camp commanders. I provided the names of two men who commanded post-WWII Polish concentration camps and were not Jewish and had never lived in Israel (including one who was put on trial in post-communist Poland but then had his case dismissed because he was feeling a bit unwell). I can provide more names if need be.

Prince is refusing to to name the the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish" because he knows that his claim is a lie.
miranda
19 Feb 2009 #140
well, based on your discussion with Prince I have lernt that Morel was the only one who ended up in Israel and was of a Jewish decent Pole

- but I haven't done my own research, so I am just basing my conclusion on your exchange with Prince.

I can provide more names if need be.

that would be good.

Prince is refusing to to name the the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish" because he knows that his claim is a lie.

there seem to be one so far. Are there more of Jewish decent people to your knowledge who shared similar to Morel's history?
I am just curious.
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #141
Harry, can't you read?

I can but apparently you can not. From the wikipedia page you pulled your quote from:
"The site of the camp was used as a detention centre (Central Labour Camp Potulice) by Polish Communist authorities after World War II.[7] About 3500 ethnic Germans died in the camp in the years 1945 to 1950." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potulice_concentration_camp

Although I must say that I fail to see anything in either wikipedia page you quote from that names the the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish".
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #142
Harry this stroy is not about the Jews ... but I have mentioned many names just to make this debate more interesting. I don't think that communism was Jewish conspiracy.

From the other hand we can see that for sure ethnic back ground wasn't barrer in career in Stalinist Poland...

This debate is about what have happend in sold by Allies for communist who in free Poland had no chances.
miranda
19 Feb 2009 #143
one problem I have notice in this exchange:
- semantics in relation to Polish concentration camps vs. labour camps (during communism) which in their nature were like concentration camps (during German occupation in Poland)
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #144
that would be good.

For Jaworzno we have Stefan Szablewski, Włodzimierz Staniszewski, Stanisław Kwiatkowski, Ivan Mordasov and Teofil Hazelmajer.
sknp.umcs.lublin.pl/materialy/Obozy_pracy_w_Polsce_Ludowej_Jaworzno.pdf

"Teofil Hazelmajer" is not a particularly Catholic sounding name but it's a bit of a stretch to say that because of that name he must now "live in Israel and claim to be Israeli not Polish".
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #145
Harry this communist from west Germany would behave in the same way:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

but they were in miniority in western German ... if west Germany was given for Soviets they would act as commies in all countries.

Why Poland has been sold for Soviets ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
Pinching Pete - | 558
19 Feb 2009 #146
Prince

.. boo hoo, who bankrupted the Soviets? It wasn't you that's for sure. You wouldn't even be in the EU without the West. Betrayal? What a clown.

You marched on the Czechs, okay? You and the Bear. Skip the sanctimony.
Harry
19 Feb 2009 #147
Harry this communist from west Germany would behave in the same way:

A fascinating bit of conjecture there.

Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish". Either that or admit that you have been telling anti-semitic lies.
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #148
Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish".

I don't know anny Polish concentration camps but surly in camps established by NKVD one of commanders was Morel.

.. boo hoo, who bankrupted the Soviets?

Americans.

Kukliński helped you a lot.

Kuklinski

A placard with a dedication to Ryszard Kukliński in Warsaw.

Kukliński is buried in the honour row of the Powązki military cemetery in Warsaw, and has been given honorary citizenship of several Polish cities, among which most notable are Kraków and Gdańsk.

You marched on the Czechs, okay? You and the Bear.

As long as we weren't free ... and people wanted Czechs to win ... we haven't marched on them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryszard_Siwiec

Ryszard Siwiec (1909-September 12, 1968) was a Polish accountant, teacher and former Home Army soldier who was the first person to commit suicide by self-immolation in protest against the Soviet-led invasion of Czechoslovakia. He set himself ablaze in Warsaw during a national harvest festival on September 8, 1968 at the Dziesięciolecia Stadium

Harry
19 Feb 2009 #149
I don't know anny Polish concentration camps but surly in camps established by NKVD one of commanders was Morel.

So you mean you can not name the men you claimed to exist. OK, nice of you to admit that you were lying.
Prince 15 | 590
19 Feb 2009 #150
Harry you try to make Poland responsible for crimes committed here ... when majority of Poles preferred to be nuked than see Soviet victory...

Morel existed and it is another issue.


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