Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland)

@Spike31
In police we refer to our colleagues as comrades. Same do firefighters amd others in that aspect.

As for Ukraine, im German. I give a **** about Ukraine. I care for my own country and people and i advice others to do the same.

Ukraine can go to hell.

As dor Ukrainians, yes its official AfD stance. Ukrainians are not Germans, we have no responsibility for tehem.

And to say one thing, im sick for that retarded thinking that we are responsible for evryone. I dont care about africa, arabs ukraine or who else wants to get our money.

And no, im not national socialist. I hate socialism in any form.

This pipeline is in german interest. Its not in our interest to support Ukraine.

You know I have met German police at football games or traffic stops and they never seem the type to lose sleep about Ukraine and pipelines.

I dont lose sleep either. I just say i wont pay a single cent for Ukraine or Poland.

I want Germany first. Im patriotic. Nobody else would ever help us but all always want concessions from us. I say screw them.

Patriotism and one-sided nationalism aren't the same!

I wonder what separates AfD's future "dictatorship" from Merkel's quasi-dictatorship? One's right-leaning, the other left-leaning, and so what, actually where's the difference here?

Perhaps the fact that Merkel's government is not in any way a dictatorship, and that the AfD only represents a small minority in the country?

AfD represents majority of East Germany and broke up merkels regime.

Are you sure you are German? I would swear you are Trump's smarter twin.
BTW, if you decide to run for president here, I will vote for you.

Many Germans are sick of this pathetic "we must save the world". We are responsible for Germany, nothinh else

My American version of the same is shorter: Fu** the World.
And the climate change.

Has anyone so far told you that you are a Russian troll spreading dissent in the civilized and oh so wonderful world of the kind and the progressive?

If not, get ready for it.

Im from Thüringen, they say we and the Saxons are all evil Bazis.

Btw i love to fly Australia. The longer the flight, the better. Im happy to hurt the liberal scum.

I will be here to share the joy.
One of the weirdest moment at this forum was when I told your weasel Germans that I, being Polish by birth, am a better German patriot than they are with all that apologetic crap about immigrants, refugees and s*** like that.

I assume you meant Nazis. B and N are close, but not the same.

We had a pact in Germany. A compromise. That was broken in 2015. Its over now.

Im a young man. In 2015 was first time in my life i was scared. And i swear revenge. And i know many around me do same. We bote AfD. We destroy what the liberals see as important. I want the EU crashed. I love to make far holidays. Chile, peru, australia. Perfect!

I oppose integration. I know no compromise anymore. I love to see the fear in their eyes, seeing their utopia breaking apart.

It's like I am reading my own post.
Stick around and don't let the leftist scum get to you. Now, I know that I am not alone here with a functioning brain.

Lots of Germans think that way. Even more so in eastern Germany.

You're probably right as far as short-term interest is concerned. In the long run, giving the Russians a very nice tool to blackmail eastern NATO member states (which they will, have no doubt about it, use whenever they please) on top of large amounts of money can mean trouble - very expensive trouble. :)

Poland is on the best way to cut herself off the Russian gas -- we have to honour our present agreement, but when that ends Russians won't see our money anymore. Providing nationalist, hostile regimes with means to conduct their aggressive poitics is something that should usually be avoided (and, as a German, you should be well aware of that).

So, enjoy your cheap gas for the time being, and pray to your Friggor, Wota or whomever, that your cheap gas doesn't prove to be VERY expensive one day.


Well, that certainly explains your stance towards EU policies regarding energy sources supply policies. A Germexit? That would be interesting...

Do you want NATO crashed as well? Because last time I checked Germany didn't have nuclear weapons, and your Bundeswehr wasn't at all impressive, so if Poland falls to the Russians (armed with all the brand new stuff bought for the gas money), your chances of stopping them are rather slim. You may, of course, count on the Americans going into all-out nuclear war against Russia over Poland, Germany and the rest of Central Europe, but I really can't see that happening.

It wasn't that long ago when everybody in Poland, Germany and the rest of the EU realised the obviousness of solidarity and close European integration. Something very bad happened since then (also in Poland!). Well, I suppose all the money Russians spend on propaganda and anti-EU trojan horses in Europe wasn't spend for nothing. :(

Sad times are coming for Europe...

Germany is an economic and engineering super power. If needed we can build nukes in a matter of weeks. But i dont see it.

Germany never gets support from others but somehow we always must help others? Sorry but no. Im not willing to pay more without getting something.

Also having the pipeline does not mean we have to take the gas.

And Trump is much less reluable for Germany than Putin.

It was not the Russian money. It was the EU stupidity plus a million or two of non-EU scum you invited and cuddled. With more on the way.

Building nukes is not that difficult - even Poland could build them in a matter of weeks (well, months maybe, with all the bureaucracy :)), but both you and I know that it's more complicated than that, and it's not about technical capabilities anymore (it was 50 years ago).


You make your own choices, and you will have to face their consequences, that's all I'm saying.


Oh, just be careful with Vladi... be very careful indeed.


Some of the people you probably have in mind are indeed criminals or terrorists, but they are minority. Besides 1 or 2 million, in a 500 million Union shouldn't be that much of a problem, should it? There was a humanitarian crisis and the EU dealt with it. We dealt with it clumsily, that's true, but something had to be done. We didn't have the option of sitting and watching it all from across the ocean, eating popcorn.

Well, I least that. We'll see if that statement holds true when it comes to AfD. So far no political establishment in Germany was free from socialism - since Bismarck who invented state socialism - so I'm very sceptical.

Obviously, Polish and German nationalism are very different and both countries have different geopolitical aims and goals so we could never be friends or close political allies but I can't see why not trade partners. Especially since one of AfD goals is Gerexit which practically means the destruction of the EU which will lead to new economic model of Europe.

@Torq

Well too bad its not 1 or 2 million in a 500 million union, since 1.5 million ended in Germany. So for us it is an enormous problem.

The EU did **** to help us. The EU can die and i wont shed a tear.

Putin speaks fluent German and wants a alliance with Germany since decades. Trump hates Germany, insults us nonstop.

That's why the EU is such a game changer.

If you want to set Germany and Poland back on an centuries old, bloody path, it's your choice...I would rather not.


They won't win any elections with that. The contrary is true, to stop the incoming masses Europe needs to secure it's outer borders, that will only work together, when all chip in. It's in Germany's best interest.

The other alternative for Germany, alone...outside of the EU, would be to build a wall to all neighbouring countries, that is not even a workable dream here, rather a nightmare.

There will be no Gerexit, and there will be a longterm solution to this mass immigration. But it won't destroy the EU, it will make it stronger, we would have a real common border then, a border accepted and supported by its members, a step forward to a real union.

Common footie team next... :)


Trump will be gone soon. His term is limited by law...we can sit him out!

I believe you'd be wrong here, Spike. There can hardly be two other countries that are more natural allies (not in historic but in realpolitik terms). But it's a topic for a different discussion.


Yes, it is a problem. And other EU countries, including Poland, refused to offer substantial help (for many reasons). There is very little I can say in defense of my country here. It was a mistake.


I don't see how that would help in anything.


Russia doesn't have allies, they have vassals. It's their mentality, and always has been. They need your help in regaining their imperial status, and when that happens...


So, to spite the US you want the EU to collapse? I'm afraid I fail to see the logic behind that.

There isn't any logic behind. For Trump the EU is a rival on the world markets...

As for Putin, the EU is the main political enemy in his quest for power and influence in Europe...

To make it fail would please both of them.

It's downright illogical for any proud European to want to weaken the EU now.

It's NATO, not the EU which keeps peace in Europe. And Poland has no plans leaving NATO. And to be honest, Poland is one of a very few advocates of the US presence in Europe. And Germany became one of the opponents of the US presence.

I believe that the strength is the best guarantee of peace. Upgrading Polish army to the point of a possible mutual destruction is the key step on this path. That is exactly why cold war was, cold, and not a regular war between US and USRR. Both parties had a mutual destruction capability.

Exactly.

And when something happening would please both Trump and Putin, then I surely don't want to see that happening!

So true...and we (Europe) would be the loser in this on all accounts!

Mutually Assured Destruction.....MAD.....it worked a treat for many years.
Nobody will press the button if they know it will mean their total destruction.
I grew up under that and always felt safe.
We need to go back to it.

Nope, cooperation is the best guarantee of peace. Membership in the same unions, common goals and lotsa common projects. A deep political and economical integration, so that any conflict makes no sense anymore.

As it would be to hurt yourself when you try to hurt the other....THAT is a guarantee for peace!

Germany has 9 neighbours, do you really think there will be peace when all 10 countries point their weapons at each other???

Most people prefer kidney machines to rockets and bombs.

One simple correction:

So true...and we (Germany) would be the loser in this on all accounts!

The EU is your sphere of influence, crafted for German needs and fueling German economy. And Poland has only joined an already established organization ruled by the others. The new economic order in Europe would be the equalizer