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Why Was D-Day So Significant for Poland ?


Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #91
But the thing is they fuked it up because they started murdering civilians and burning entire villages down.

What I said....
Strzelec35 27 | 868
25 Jun 2021 #92
Ok now I read your entire point or post. But militarily even if usa was not in the war in any way and britain sued for peace i just dont see it happening with the way they waged war.
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #93
Stalingrad was more significant. It was not the American tanks that rolled through and liberated Poland.
Strzelec35 27 | 868
25 Jun 2021 #94
New article on the subject btw I just found:
nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/operation-barbarossa

An interesting scenario would have been if US was postponed for Japan and the land of the rising sun had decided to team up with Hitler in a pincher attack or a two front attack on Stalin:

nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/hitler-nazi-germany-pearl-harbor
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #95
..... i just dont see it happening with the way they waged war.

During the first months whole armies just gave up and surrendered to the Wehrmacht. It had been so many that there weren't enough german soldiers to keep them all, but they weren't needed, the Russians didn't fight and obeyed....a "morale" was actually non-existent....they felt safer with the german army, they didn't want to fight anymore...

What did Hitler and his cronies do? Instead to take care of these masses of men, feed them, try to convince them to get back to the field and fight for their own liberation now with the military support of the Germans...nooo....they let them starve cruelly to death!

With that they made sure no Russian would again try to surrender and rather fight to the death, even if he feared Stalin, he hated the Nazis more!

THATS how the Germans lost that war, not because of weapons or lone battles or what not....
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #96
It was the Nazis themselves who blundered

It was the Germans. That "Nazi" line is used to suggest that there were Germans in the German army that didn't want to have any of that and simply disobeyed the orders that were inhumane.

The US is at least honest and never claims that it was the Democrats who dropped the nukes. It was the US and the Americans. No whitewashing.

What did Hitler and his cronies do?..they let them starve to death!
"Hitler and his cronies" were a dozen guys. It was the millions of "good" Germans who "let them starve to death".
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #97
It was the Germans.

No, in this case it was the Nazis! These policies were made up, thought out, implemented and ordered by the members of the NSDAP and their believers...NAZIS!
Strzelec35 27 | 868
25 Jun 2021 #98
They had unlimited resources of men though so that didnt matter. Plus unlimited geography again once they started to outproduce them with the t34 and other weapons and germans failed to capture and convert oilf or their productio in addition to germans never matching 1:1 the side of their army in front of them no matter how many they killed encircled etc. were always outnumbered it was done. They couldnt even capture two cities no matter how hard they tried how do you expect them to get to siberia where stalin mvoed all hisw ar production to? Stalingrad and Leningrad. Their logistics wouldnt even let them go that for or even to that aa line and slowly by slowly they would be outkilled and their tanks outnumbered more and more by t34s 20000 per month or whatever it was production.

The other thing to remember is Stalin ordered order 22 or the not one step back order and also started to let zhukov and his commanders command instead of try to be a general and less encirclements and mistakes from 1941 occurred. So the Germans never could count on that lasting that long.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #99
They had unlimited resources of men

They still needed them to be willing! What use would be men who fear the commissar behind them more than the enemy up front? Surrendering would become an option!

Hitler made sure it wasn't so...
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #100
No, in this case it was the Nazis!

Who dropped the nukes? Americans or the Democrats?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #101
The president?

Who gives the order?

I would never lay the blame on a 10 year old child going to school somewhere in Sacramento, California for destroying Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
Strzelec35 27 | 868
25 Jun 2021 #102
Interesting from that second article:

The German defeat in front of the Soviet capital was the result of many factors, but above all of a serious German logistical overstretch, with replacements lagging behind losses, spare parts and fuel hard to come by, and reinforcements altogether absent. The drive on Moscow petered out in late October, with the arrival of the autumn rains, restarted briefly when the mud froze, then got stuck together with the hard freeze and snow of mid-November. The Soviets even liked to brag about two of their most stalwart and heroic commanders: General Mud and General Winter. By any reasonable standard, the time had come for the Wehrmacht to take stock, consolidate a good defensive position, and then use the new line as a jumping off point for an offensive in 1942.

nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/hitler-nazi-germany-pearl-harbor

I dont know this seems kind of far streched to me. I always thought hitler was just cocky ad impatient and thats why he didnt dig in in late 41. It is possible though that he knew pearl harbour will happen way ahead of when it did? and he was trying to change their minds to attack the soviet union instead? maybe if hitler managed to take it right before winter truly hit and he had to dig his troops in late 41 japan would have done it?
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #103
The president?

If this is your answer, then it was Hitler, not Nazis.
Again, who decided to drop the nukes? Americans or the Democrats?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #104
I always thought hitler was just cocky ad impatient

I think we can agree on that Hitler did everything wrong!

But then, he was a luckless painter....I put the blame on the professionals, the german High Command, they should have known better, they should have done something!

Again, who decided to drop the nukes? Americans or the Democrats?

If that's my choice I say the Democrats. But even that would be wrong. I'm quite sure that alot of the million members of the Democratic Party had been against such mass destruction...

So, I put it to those people who actually ordered to "push the button" and those who actually "followed orders" and did push the button.

Please kindly accept my decision, thank you!

PS: To call "The Americans" is actually just a try to broaden the blame....to lessen the blame on those actually responsible!
Strzelec35 27 | 868
25 Jun 2021 #105
Maybe if they went for the caucuses oil fields as the prime objective in 41 and instead of army groupe center had the bulk going south while diverting or making it look like they care about the other fronts and they actually captured that region and then dug in and held it who knows? They could have also launched fomr the middle east while capturing some of that iraqi and arab oil as well.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #106
Maybe if they went for the caucuses oil fields as the prime objective in 41

Even so....burning the land and turning a usually rather lethargic population into hostiles was the worst of all ways to go about it, they HAD to know that!
Strzelec35 27 | 868
25 Jun 2021 #107
but thats the war they waged or only knew how. that was their method.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #108
but thats the war they waged or only knew how.

I disagree...the war they fighted in the West was totally different, no Untermenschen....it was the racist Nazi ideology which destroyed them, first Russia and then Germany.
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #109
Pleasy kindly accept my decision, thank you!

I will when you drop that "Nazi" crap. It was the Germans, not just the Nazis, who cheered and supported "Hitler and his cronies" with smiles on their faces and love in their hearts when their brothers were killing people who did them no wrong.

Then came Stalingrad...and the smiles were gone.
Luckily, the Soviets didn't know the fate of their brothers taken prisoner by the barbarians or they would be justified in executing yours right there and then. Every last one for not applying for visas.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #110
It was the Germans, not just the Nazis

Do you really believe it had been "the Russians" who murdered the millions of people during Stalin's reign? (About 20 MILLION people)

Who murdered the polish intelligencia at Katyn? Russians or Stalinists?

All of them guilty? From the newborn baby to the old Babushka?

Luckily, the Soviets didn't know the fate of their brothers taken prisoner by the barbarians

I dunno....if I follow your logic "The Russians" had been quite the barbarians themselves....murdering 20 million people (worse than the holocaust!)....maybe the Germans would had been right in trying to kill them all? To end that murdering and for revenge of course....

Your logic sucks seriously, Rich!
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #111
Who murdered the polish intelligencia at Katyn? Russians or Stalinists?

The Soviets. There was no such thing as "Stalinists". You are making this crap up to justify your "Nazis".
Off-subject but telling...Do blacks want reparations from the slave owners' estates or from the US taxpayers - including me?

.if I follow your logic "The Russians" had been quite the barbarians themselves...

And you would be right in a different conversation. This one is about German barbarisms.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #112
The Soviets.

Do you make a difference between the Soviets and the Russians? Why now?

Do blacks want reparations from the slave owners' estates or from the US taxpayers - including me?

Germany just agreed to pay a few Billions to the Hereros, because they colonized Namibia for a few years....ask me how I like that!
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #113
What I resent is this woke Western desire to spare your feeling with "it's the Nazis" line. At the very worst, British documentaries will say, "Nazi Germany" - as if there were two Germanys back then.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #114
Nazi Germany

Germany had lotsa names during its long past....maybe they just use it to differ between the Germany's till 1933 and from 1945 onwards? :)
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #115
Do you make a difference between the Soviets and the Russians? Why now?

Before the breakup, it was the USSR or Soviet Union. Today, it's Russia or Russian Federation.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #116
"Soviets" means also Communist, at least members of the communist party....I doubt the illiterate farmer could count as either...

But it all had been ethnical Russians (+assorted ethnicities).

So, you could also say Russians when you talk about their barbarism....but that's not so easy as you see them rather as the pure hearted "damsel in distress" fighting and winning against the german monsters!

Ask the Poles which barbarian they preferred as both sat over Poland to partition it like a cake!

So....either it was Nazis against Soviets....or Germans against Russians....that would be only fair, don't you think?
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #117
maybe they just use it to differ between the Germany's till 1933 and from 1945 onwards? :)

They should always use the official names. Editorializing names to convey feelings is dishonest.
There never was a "Nazi army". It was the German army and so was everything else - including the extermination camps.
When Germany was paying reparations to Israel, did the German government charge only the ex-Nazis? That was a rhetorical question.
Miloslaw 20 | 4,813
25 Jun 2021 #118
@Bratwurst Boy

For me it's Germans against Russians.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
25 Jun 2021 #119
They should always use the official names.

That seems to be a problem.

Germany's official name between 1933 until 1943 had been
"The German Reich"....and between 1943 till 1945 it was
"The Greater German Reich".

That seems to overwhelm non-german readers and writers....nothing with Nazi innit!
Novichok 4 | 7,924
25 Jun 2021 #120
"Soviets" means also Communist, at least members of the communist party..

Wrong and wrong.

Soviet:

1. an elected local, district, or national council in the former Soviet Union.
2. a citizen of the former Soviet Union.


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