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Poland and Britain started WW2


jon357 71 | 20,799
14 Jan 2023 #151
Prezes K

Yes, Kwaśniewski is a great man.
mafketis 35 | 11,556
14 Jan 2023 #152
I woulnd't go that far..... a better president overall than Wałęsa but flawed and not.... great.
pawian 200 | 21,490
14 Jan 2023 #153
In the future Bereza Kartuska and the May Coup will be discussed only by historians specializing in the period.

I see. You advocate national amnesia.
How about Ukraine and its Bandera whose contribution to Wołyń will also be remembered only by Ukrainian historians ???

Pułaski, Paderewski, Piłsudski, Prezydent Wałęsa, Premier Tusk, Pan Kleks...all great Poles start with "P".

Pawian.
jon357 71 | 20,799
14 Jan 2023 #154
great.

The right person for the time is always great. He wasn't perfect, however he did what was written on the label and of course he was from the better side of the political spectrum.

Wołyń

This should never be forgotten. It should be remembered with sadness more than anger and as part of the whole horrors of that part of the twentieth century.
pawian 200 | 21,490
14 Jan 2023 #155
This should never be forgotten

Yes. Just like Piłsudski`s ignoble acts.
jon357 71 | 20,799
14 Jan 2023 #156
Better to remember the good things and decide how societies should move forward, away from capitalism, gun violence and nationalism.
pawian 200 | 21,490
14 Jan 2023 #157
away from capitalism,

What???? :):):)

Capitalism is good!!! It makes the world go round, contrary to communism. :):)
Paulina 13 | 3,327
14 Jan 2023 #158
Better to remember the good things

Sure, jon357:

latnet.org/org-blog/2022/1/27/holocaust-remembrance-day-never-forget-never-again

Why should we remember about the homosexual prisoners of Nazi concentration camps, right? 🙄🤦
jon357 71 | 20,799
14 Jan 2023 #159
Why should we remember about the homosexual prisoners of Nazi concentration

Odd you mention that specific group.

We should of course remember all crimes of fascism, nationalism and totalitarianism as a whole. To understand how they occurred and to prevent them happening again.

Even more than that, we should focus on glimmers of hope, on the people who defy the mob, who make situations better rather than worse. We should look at their example as beacons of light in dark times and encourage people to emulate their decency.
Paulina 13 | 3,327
14 Jan 2023 #160
@jon357, it's not odd at all, you know very well why I mentioned it.

We should of course remember all crimes of fascism, nationalism and totalitarianism as a whole.To understand how they occurred and to prevent them happening again.

Exactly.
jon357 71 | 20,799
14 Jan 2023 #161
@Paulina
All of the 'forgotten' groups (I'd includeNon-Jewish Poles, Roma/Sinti, Trade Unionists,Black people, Jehovah's Witnesses, LGBT, Freemasons, Occultists, Communists and people who as individuals fell (as I do) into more than one of those groups) deserve to have their stories told. We shouldn't forget that it was primarily a crime against Jews, however those other groups are often forgotten by the wider world due to the scale of the crime.

Above all, we must say Never Again.

And I do worry about the camps in China.

At least the two countries mentioned in the title of this thread have clean hands regarding WW2.
Alien 12 | 2,675
14 Jan 2023 #162
people who as individuals fell (as I do) into more than one of those groups) de

May I guess: Jehovah's Witnesses and LGBT?
jon357 71 | 20,799
14 Jan 2023 #163
MYOB.

The point is to remember not only the victims and survivors, but those who risked everything in dark and dangerous times.

Some people say the war was between 1939 and 1945. That's a very legalistic way of looking at it. Really it all started earlier, from the rise of the nazis, the Holodomor, the Stalin terror if not before and went on in one way or another in some places until into the 1950s.
call1n 2 | 151
17 Jan 2023 #164
The war started because Stalin and Hitler could not agree over who should own Poland and the Baltic states. Keep in mind that the so called free democracies of the United States and UK, never came to the aid of Poland and say Poland "has a right to exist." Hitler is a pinko commie. The Nazi movement was a communist movement in the beginning. It was only after the dispute about Poland did Hitler change his stance. He still a socialist. President Roosevelt even politely visited Stalin even after it was known the Ukrainian genocide. He knew what was in store for Poland, and it did not include Poland to become its own state.
jon357 71 | 20,799
17 Jan 2023 #165
The Nazi movement was a communist movement in the beginning

It wasn't. It was the very opposite and right from the start was bankrolled by industrial capitalists. They banned Trade Unions.

Hitler is a pinko commie.

What a silly comment.

The war started because

The causes are more complex, however a nationalistic sense of "manifest destiny" among the Germans as well as access to oil both play their part. There was no single cause.
call1n 2 | 151
17 Jan 2023 #166
You don't believe me? Read The Roosevelt Myth by John Flynn
jon357 71 | 20,799
17 Jan 2023 #168
by John Flynn

A journalist who was a well-known Germany apologist as well as holding extreme political views.

Theere are better books on WW2. In fact, almost all of them are better.

And yes, the fascist government in Germany were to blame for that war; they started it. Poland was innocent of that.

Unbelievable

Yes. Unbelievable. Next he'll blame the victims of the Holocaust for the Holocaust.
call1n 2 | 151
18 Jan 2023 #169
A journalist who was a well-known Germany apologist as well as holding extreme political views.

That is why he states that all the communist supported Hitler. In fact, communism was pro-peace. It was only Hitler and Stalin could not agree about Poland, did all the "pro peace" communist become pro war.

He used the word "pinko" because many of these communist, including Hitler were homosexual.
jon357 71 | 20,799
19 Jan 2023 #170
That is why he states that all the communist supported Hitler

He could state what he liked. The opposite is true. The political left opposed the Nazis and their racist filth.

He used the word "pinko"

Foreign slang.

these communist, including Hitler were homosexual.

No they weren't and no he wasn't. Ask Eva Braun

Your journalist sounds like a loony.
call1n 2 | 151
19 Jan 2023 #171
No they weren't and no he wasn't. Ask Eva Braun

Many communist were homosexual. In fact, communism was very much pro-Hitler. Stalin and Hitler were buddies. It was just after their argument over who should run Poland, did the stooges for Stalin become anti-Hitler.

Read the book the Roosevelt myth. There is nothing in that book that is not factual even if it has a slant towards being pro-polish for condemning the UK and the US,for not telling Stalin and Hitler that Poland should have its own sovereignty and government.
johnny reb 40 | 8,625
19 Jan 2023 #172
May I guess: Jehovah's Witnesses and LGBT?

I think you just nailed it

He used the word "pinko" because many of these communist, including Hitler were homosexual.

This is true
jon357 71 | 20,799
20 Jan 2023 #173
Many communist were homosexual.

Many people of all political views (sometimes extreme, mostly moderate) or none are. Plus the 50% of the population who are on a spectrum between gay and straight in their orientation. That's a lot of voters. No shortage of right-wingers either, not that this is sexuality is relevant to politics since there is no hard and fast correlation between the two things.

Stalin and Hitler were buddies.

They weren't. They never met.

did the stooges for Stalin

What 'stooges' do you mean?

And why do you think Poland was to blame for its own invasion?

The book doesn't sound interesting. Something by an American journalist wth a grudge against a great President. Read something (not online) written by a rigorous historian instead.
call1n 2 | 151
20 Jan 2023 #174
What 'stooges' do you mean?

All the pinko communist of the 1930s were pro Hitler. They were homosexual and Hitler was also a homo. They were all "peace not war." Hitler said that Poland should be dissolved into Germany. Stalin said Poland should be dissolved into USSR. The argument broke out into war. Then all the pinko communist were pro war. And I do not even need to talk about the fact that Pearl Harbor was staged. They knew it was coming and were going to use it as a lever to get into the war.

Most Americans were anti-war as how unpopular World War 1 was. They did not want to get involved. What a convenience Pearl Harbor was? A great lever to get America into an unpopular war. Did I mention Roosevelt visited Stalin even after he knew about the Ukrainian genocide?
jon357 71 | 20,799
20 Jan 2023 #175
pinko

What's with the 'pinko' thing? What does that even mean?

And no, Communists didn't 'support Hitler'. They were two opposites.

Not were any significant figures in the Communist movement LGBT and very few fascists

Pearl Harbour wasn't 'staged' and nobody cares nowadays what the American public thought about the Great War of 1914-1918 It was nearly over by the time their government got involved.

Are you still trying to blame Poland for WW2?

It's a bad idea to victim blame, especially given how devastating WW2 was for Poland and how many millions of Poles both gentile and Jewish were murderer buy right-wing nationalists.
call1n 2 | 151
20 Jan 2023 #176
pinko = gay homosexual communist

The Nazi movement was pro Stalin.

Hitler was a pinko, it was only after his dispute with Stalin over Poland did he become anti-communist.

Listen to Yuri Bezemnov. The Soviet Union practiced apartheid. He even wrote letters to Jane Fonda, saying that she is a 'useful idiot' The Soviet Union even said who you were allowed to marry (just like the nazis). Just look at history. Once the useful idiots succeed in establishing communism, the useful idiots are put out. Once they see what communism really, they would no longer support it. Communist governments know this and that is why they have this policy.

That is why Hitler took out the brown shirts once he took power. The brown shirts were full of communist and homosexuals. That is why John Flynn uses the word 'pinko'
Alien 12 | 2,675
20 Jan 2023 #177
Communists didn't 'support Hitler'.

Of course they did, until 1941.
jon357 71 | 20,799
20 Jan 2023 #178
No they didn't.

They were in a secret alliance with the fascists due to Poland. They didn't support their politics.

pinko

Pinko sounds a made up foreign slang word. Nothing to do with either sexuality or economic theory.

The Soviet Union even said who you were allowed to marry

They didn't.

And you still avoid the question which is why you think Poland and Britain were responsible for WW2.
Alien 12 | 2,675
20 Jan 2023 #179
a secret alliance with the fascists due to Polan

It wasn't secret, it was open alliance and continued after the division of Poland.
jon357 71 | 20,799
20 Jan 2023 #180
It wasn't secret

It was certainly secret until people found out, and it wasn't an alliance.


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