Poland and Britain started WW2

@Bobko
Possibly. Some of the ideas are a long way from reality. History is just a way of looking at it, however it's hard to blame WWII on anything other than German (and Japanese) imperialism.

@jon357
To be honest, Mussolini can take the blame a lil bit with his conquest of Ethopia. Leading up to other dictators trying to get the best of him

Franco too; they all enabled each other. And the European democracies emboldened them by not acting in a timely way in Spain, Abyssinia and the Rhineland.

We (or specifically France with international support) should have acted when Germany invaded the Rhineland and nipped it in the bud.

Are you nuts?


I think he did.

Says a country which travels over half the globe the "get back whats theirs" (Falklands).....a tad hypocrit?

Don't be silly. A hostile state with no claim be it historical, legal or moral, invaded it, and (unlike the Rhineland post-Versailles). And of course in the recent referendum (a referendum, not a 30s 'plebiscite'), 99.8% of the residents (including those with Argentinian nationality) confirmed that they want the status quo to remain.


No.

You're going off-topic however. Germany started WWII, not Poland, not Britain, and the warning signs were there not just at the illegal invasion of Sudety but also earlier at the illegal invasion of the Rhineland.

Are you nuts?


Exactly!


There you go BB.

It's the 80th anniversary of VE Day this week with parades and celebrations. It wasn't the end of the war of course; that was still raging in the east however it's a time to reflect on those events. There are chilling parallels between the 30s and now and of course r*SSian imperialism is the big threat rather than German, though it's chilling to read about the levels of support there and in Hungary, Slovakia etc for r*SSia.

There's a good parallel. Putler is right now holding parades in Moscow and making maximalist demands, despite being on the back foot and not having good future prospects. The Germans in the last weeks and months of the third reich were much the same. Will things turn out in a similar way?

There's a good article (link below) about how deluded that regime and its helpers were.

At first, Chancellor Hitler really believed that there was still a chance, despite how unrealistic that was. There were even counteroffensives in late 1944 and he really did expect his generals whose troops were dead and ammunition depleted would be able to drive the So jets from Berlin.

Then, after his suicide, the Flensburg 'Government' of Donitz were actually making plans for the future. They genuinely believed they would be allowed to continue a Nazi administration post defeat. When it started to dawn on them that this could never happen they were even trying to negotiate a conditional surrender.

When Monty pointed out that they were in no position to request any conditions whatsoever the Nazi General that Donitz sent to Field Marshal Monty left in floods of tears.

They still couldn't accept their abject defeat and tried next to request surrender to the western Allies rather than the Soviets. This time the asked Eisenhower who also said no. Then they started trying to buy time for civilians to escape westwards from the Soviets. This of course was also unacceptable and Eisenhower told them that if they continued to delay, the western Allies would no longer accept their abject defeat surrender of German troops; they'd either be shot or sent back to the Soviet controlled areas.

Delusion, just as Putler in moscow is deluded that he had any possibility of winning, any chance that his demands will be met.

Poland was devastated by war last time and war in Europe is happening now with the aggressor threatening t make it a world war.

We should never forget those who gave their lives fighting fascism, never forget their sacrifices or the hardship on the home front.

The major powers let the Germans do the appalling things they did through complacency; they'd either could have been stopped several years before the war by robust military action when they were more vulnerable.

Should we act now more decisively against r*SSia or sit back hoping WW3 won't happen? Either way, Poland is in a geographically difficult position.

After the war, it was possible to show mercy to Germans and eventually allow them to re-establish a state; despite huge support for the nazis, some, even many, were good people and there were good things and good things in their society as well as bad. Harder to say the same about r*SSia. Besides, the zones of occupation were cripplingly expensive for decent people who'd challenged and defeated their aggression.

How true is that about r*SSia? President Wałęsa suggested reducing their population to around 40 million. That won't happen except by attrition and natural waste since two wrongs never make a right.

So what should we do?

The Third Reich's final days were marked by delusion, paranoia and despair as the Führer's regime crumbled, but even his successors didn't think the end had come

thetimes.com/uk/history/article/im-not-giving-any-more-orders-how-hitler-and-the-nazis-fell-r3rltv578

The article is by the way a very interesting read.

Oh, the irony...

First, they let the USSR bleed and win WW2 for them.

Then, the mother fvckers provoked Russia into a war...

Now, they are won't invite Russians to celebrate their holiest of days - May 9.

On behalf of all Russians - dead and alive ...fvck you, Western scum...

A great post Jon, especially the paragraph above.
Germans have shown that they can change for the better.
Russians cannot make that claim,they have been the same for well over 100 years.


Help to win WW2? the Russians DID NOT win that war.And all along they had their own agenda for sending young Russians into the meat grinder.... the control of Eastern/Central Europe.Typical Russian cynicism.


Who? What? When?


They can celebrate whilst Ukraine attacks their military bases.


You really need to move to Russia............ enjoy........LOL!!!!!

Being pussified woke bootlickers, destroying their economy for somebody's "freedom and democracy" and "climate change", welcoming undeportable Muslim scum by the thousands...that's a change for the better?

In the past, people like this would end up in padded vans on the way to a mental hospital...

Are you fvcking nuts?

Who killed most Germans?

Please do not tell me that Poland or the UK won WW2.

Very true however I'd add a few centuries to that.


Exactky. They started it together with the Hun, both of them invading a country dear to us both in the same month.

"Great" Britain did not got to be "great" without wars and invasions all over the globe....no need to show others the moral finger! :)

...but it's worth trying and hope you are dealing with ignorant and forgetful idiots...

Hey, Milo, so who won WW2? This may be helpful...

German army losses:

Eastern front: 4 million

Western front: 770,000

German losses to the USSR were 84% of the total.

The US and UK losses combined were 4% of the losses on the Soviet side.

For the record: I didn't use the word "NAZI". German soldiers were as patriotic as any other soldiers who were forced into a dog-eat-dog survival nighmare.

It was the USSR that won WW2. Their success is magnified by how close the German army got to Moscow.

Bottom line: If the UK didn't fire a single shot during the war, the outcome would be the same. See below:

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It's a geographical term as you probably know and has been called that since long before the colonial era.

Any country on this planet or elsewhere that either gasses six million people or operates a Gulag system deserves far more than "the finger"

...Germany surely got it! Maybe "Great" Britain needs to get its too....and stop judging others as if it has a leg to stand on!

Who's "judging"? Evil is not a thing to pussyfoot around or relativise. Mistakes of the past are to be learnt from.


We have two legs to stand on, and three if you're Manx.

Who is Manx?

I think there are three legs in the coat of arms of Manx island which lies in the Irish Sea and has some unique legal status within the UK

....something new learned today, thanks! :)

Got it in one. The "triskelion" the symbol of the Isle of Man, or Ellin Vannin in the Manx language (similar to Irish)..

Manxmen and Manxwomen have Manx passports which back in the days of the EU were not EU passports. The Head of state there is the Lord Of Man (which is the King but didn't use to be). Man has one of the oldest parliaments in the world. It's a tax haven and most people there have roots in northern England. A cold and rainy place.

There's a connection to the thread. At the start of WW2 all Germans in Britain were interned there there, mostly in hotels, however since Britain has a slightly different concept of nationality to mainland Europe, they were sent there regardless of whether they were Germans of the Jewish faith or other ones; this led so some conflict among the internees. Even among the non-Jewish Germans there were ardent fascists in the same hotel as antifascist refugees. After a while the situation was resolved.

....hmmm.....camps for whole nationalities? Isn't that racist and un-democratic etc.???

*ducks and runs*

No, not when someone's started a war and in fact the internees probably wouldn't have all considered themselves the same nationality. Anyway, it wasn't one nationality as far as I know. Italians, Austrians etc were also interned.

By the way, when I was a kid there were quite a few elderly German men in our area. They'd been prisoners of war and had liked Britain so much that they stayed there for life.

Ducks and runs even faster!

Heh:)

Dammit...

The UK is no longer in the EU so that post was irrelevant.


I won't but it wasn't Russia or the USA either, it was a combined effort.
Please do more research into your history.


Precisely, to claim that Russia won WW2 when they started it with Germany is completely idiotic.


It wasn't helpful at all.Russians, as they are doing now, are just sending young men into the meat grinder in the hope that it it will get a result.Typical Russian idiocy....it worked in WW2 but it won't work in Ukraine.


HaHaHa!

Soviet losses - 10,000,000

US + UK losses - 400,000

Not enough? OK...

German losses

Eastern front - 4 million

Western from - 770,000

"Combined" my ass...

The fact that neither US and UK will be represented in Moscow tomorrow is beyond disgusting.

Memo to the disgusting Western Nigerians:

That parade will be about remembering the 27 million Soviets who died during WW2, not about about NATO expansion and the war you drooled after for decades to weaken Russia and turn it into another LGBT swamp and Black Rock possession.

Velund is right...

were it not for American trucks, American beef, American boots and plenty other things American, the Soviets would have had much harder time beating Germans if they would have ever succeeded in it

rbth.com/defence/2016/03/14/lend-lease-how-american-supplies-aided-the-ussr-in-its-darkest-hour_575559

If the Soviets didn't keep 200 German divisions busy, there would be no D-Day, four sectors, and unconditional surrender.

Rich, focus, I never said it was Americans who won the war on their own - dismiss