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Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more?


Rich Mazur 4 | 3,141
1 Sep 2019  #271
he kills civilians?

Name one Putin killed.
mafketis 20 | 7,159
2 Sep 2019  #272
He's a bit too subtle to be caught puling the trigger himself...

mediaite.com/trump/putin-with-whom-trump-joked-about-fake-news-has-seen-26-journalists-murdered-during-his-reign/

Tell yourself that Putin had nothing to do with any of those murders and you're admitting he's an incompetent boob unable to protect citizens... an unwilling to address the countries third world murder levels (not to mention sky high levels of drug addiction)
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,141
2 Sep 2019  #273
I read it. It's one and a half murdered journalists a year It's one and half too many, but it's not a number that would indicate it's methodical and that Putin could have prevented them. A good question would be how many of the 26 murders ended up with convictions. And how that number compares with the similar statistics elsewhere, like in the US. To hang it on Putin, we need the dots that link between him with the murders. Just joking at a meeting somewhere is not a link.
mafketis 20 | 7,159
2 Sep 2019  #274
To hang it on Putin

Okay.... the invasion of Donbass (I know people with relatives living there, it was not about separatists but an invasion)

second chechen war,

Or the coverup of the recent nuclear missile mishaps?
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,141
2 Sep 2019  #275
Okay.... the invasion of Donbass

OK, the Civil War here. How many Americans died? Should Lincoln have been prosecuted for murder because the North wanted cheap black labor? No, it was not to abolish slavery as an act of charity.
Ironside 48 | 9,694
2 Sep 2019  #276
But even though Ukrainian

Ukrainian and Polish 70%, Ukrainian Russian 50%.

the USSR does not exist, so neither to Soviets.

Sure they exist, you are one of them.

A troll is a person who lies to rile up.

You have admitted as much before, on this very forum or was it a lie too? Which means ....da dam ...you ARE a T to the T.

By the way I don't care IF you love Putin or s. his D.
Tacitus 2 | 835
2 Sep 2019  #277
Reading the Wikipedia page about the killing of Russian journalist (that they even need a page just shows how significant the situation is) really paints a bleak picture. Especially parts like this.

When the death was not related to the journalist's work the conviction rate exceeds 90%. When the journalist's death was certainly [related to his work] the rate of acquittals rise sharply to around half of the total.

And that even ignores that in cases which have conviction, those who likely ordered the murder are not properly investigated.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
2 Sep 2019  #279
Pure speculation.
Just as with Russia, nothing can be proved.
But why are you defending such a failure of a country as Russia?
Outside of Moscow, St.Petersburg and a handful of tiny enclaves it is virtually a third world country on the edge of Europe.
Many parts of Russia are no better off than Belarus.
I have an engineer friend who spent most of his working life on projects in Africa.
He got a 3 month contract for a job in Minsk,Belarus.
On his return,he was shocked...he told me it was like "a white africa in europe".
Russia is not much better.
Your support of Russia is as hypocritical as Jeremy Corbyn's support for Venezuela.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,141
2 Sep 2019  #280
But why are you defending such a failure of a country as Russia?

A. Russia does not to be defended.
B. I am stating my opinions about Russia and Putin, not defending either.

As opinions go, opinions are never wrong. False claims involving facts can, but not opinions.
Vlad1234 14 | 570
3 Sep 2019  #281
Ukrainian and Polish 70%

Only 10-15% of this 70% are borrowed from Polish. The rest 55-60% have common origins.
Vlad1234 14 | 570
5 Sep 2019  #283
He got a 3 month contract for a job in Minsk,Belarus.
On his return,he was shocked...he told me it was like "a white africa in europe".

To understand mentality of modern nations someone needs to look down the history. Belarussians as well as Ukrainians are former Polish slaves. Obviously there would be difference between a former aristocracy (who had close ties with Europe) and a former tucked up slaves. "The cattle" - a former(?) Polish term for Ukrainians and Belarussians. And which qualities were welcomed in "the cattle" by their masters, you think?

What exactly did he mean compared Minsk to Africa? Salaries, life standards? I visited Minsk couple of years ago as a tourist and my impressions are mixed. In general it is clean, but some places are so-so. Some new buildings are beautiful, some are old. Airport is new and beautiful. Salaries are so-so. Probably still better than African average. For example it is not uncommon for a new supermarket cashier to get salary around USD 500. But prices are lower then in The West. Many people, however may get smaller salaries or pensions. Don't forget this one country is landlocked and poor for mineral resources. There are many newer buildings including stores and hospitals. Air pollution is a problem.

The average salary in Minsk is about 972 BYR or roughly $450, which is way above the Belarus average. Renting a 1-bedroom apartment outside of city center will set you back around $250 per month. Public transport is cheap, costing just $15 and utilities including Internet are at roughly $50 per month.

checkinprice.com/average-and-minimum-salary-in-minsk-belarus/
Ironside 48 | 9,694
5 Sep 2019  #284
Belarussians as well as Ukrainians are former Polish slaves.

Well, that is a kind of BS. If anything Russian and Soviet politics should take the blame.
Vlad1234 14 | 570
5 Sep 2019  #285
In Western Ukraine and Western Belarus Soviet rule existed just 45 years (since 1944). Until that they were part of Poland (till 1939).
Velund 1 | 391
5 Sep 2019  #286
For not so long time, of course...
Ziemowit 12 | 3,455
5 Sep 2019  #287
Belarussians as well as Ukrainians are former Polish slaves.

This is, of course, a Soviet-inspired manipulation. Generally, all peasants were treated almost like slaves in the Polish Commonwealth until its very end in 1795. But to say they were "Polish slaves" is simply untrue. All peasants were like slaves irrespectively of their nationality and the same fate was shared by ethnicly Polish peasants, too.

Whatever one may say about the condition of a Polish Commonwealth peasant, their fate bacame even more harsh after they came under Russian jurisdiction as it happened as a result of the First Partition of the Commonwealth in 1772. Diplomatic correspondence betwen the court of Catherine II and that of Poland's king Stanislas August is full of cases in which Catherine II demanded the Polish authorities to seize and send back to Russia those Belorussian peasants who were escaping back to the Commonwealth across the newly established border with Russia from those manor farms taken over by the new Russian masters across the territory of the Russian partition.

The first steps to improve the condition of peasants in the Commonwealth (despite efforts made by individual farm owners) was the general declaration in the Third of May Constitution of 1791 that the Polish Commonwealth takes all peasants under its care. But Catherine II (also known as Catherine the Great) has no intention whatsoever to tolerate this liberal Constitution in the semi-independent Poland and ordered her armies to march into Poland in 1792. No such declaration was attempted to be made in the tsarist Russia.
Vlad1234 14 | 570
5 Sep 2019  #288
those manor farms taken over by the new Russian masters across the territory of the Russian partition

Were there many cases when Russians expelled Polish landlords and farm owners from their lands? I didn't read about it. Even contra, Catherine II ordered Russian troops to suppress those Orthodox peasants who rebelled against their Polish masters and either kill them or return to their Polish nobles. For example you may read about Gonta and Gajdamaky uprising.
Ironside 48 | 9,694
5 Sep 2019  #289
Were there many cases when Russians expelled Polish landlords and farm owners from their lands? I

Only if they 'rebel' against tzar. It that way Old Russia was better than (some other ways too) Soviets, Soviets were/are utter scum.

Still, slaves from Russia were voting with their feet, they rather be ;slaves' in Poland than in Russia.
Vlad1234 14 | 570
5 Sep 2019  #290
And now Poles vote with their feet running out of Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,705
6 Sep 2019  #291
If "voting with their feet" really is a criteria then Germany must be the most loved country in Europe! :)

(Especially by Poles!!!;)
Vlad1234 14 | 570
6 Sep 2019  #292
By European standards Germans achieved relatively good life standards, but only relatively. Still nothing "supernatural".
mafketis 20 | 7,159
6 Sep 2019  #293
Germans achieved relatively good life standards

Far better than the incredibly stratified norm in Russia with a tiny group of mega rich and masses of modern serfs....
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,705
6 Sep 2019  #294
By European standards Germans achieved relatively good life standards, but only relatively.

Who's standards are higher?
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
6 Sep 2019  #295
Depends how you measure it but Switzerland and Denmark must be good contenders.
Vlad1234 14 | 570
6 Sep 2019  #296
Who's standards are higher?

These are life standards that a burgers from Middle Ages could be a happy with. A lot of bratwursts, cheap good beer, clean and relatively safe streets and no mass epidemies. But what about something even more...advanced? Doesn't it feel a bit stagnant to you?
mafketis 20 | 7,159
6 Sep 2019  #297
Are you suggesting Russia (with its massive inequality, drug addiction, crime, corruption and belligerent militarism) is not stagnant?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,705
6 Sep 2019  #298
Depends how you measure it but Switzerland and Denmark must be good contenders.

They are tinies with their only achievements to show off being cuckoo clocks, they don't count! ;)

A lot of bratwursts, cheap good beer, clean and relatively safe streets and no mass epidemies.

What's not to like?

Doesn't it feel a bit stagnant to you?

....it doesn't get any better, that's for sure! :(

We might have crossed our zenith...but then, that's the problem of the next generations.
Ironside 48 | 9,694
6 Sep 2019  #299
And now Poles vote with their feet running out of Poland.

Curtesy of Soviet Russia, not only those scum f.. up their own country, they had to go and f it up some other country that has nothing to do with them and their sh..t,, should pay compensation in gold.

By the way, do not move goalpost here. We were talking about serfs and a fact that those serfs in Russia dreamed about being serfs in Poland. That's telling.

If "voting with their feet" really is a criteria then Germany

Well, Poland had been the most loved country in Europe a one time, especially by Germans.:) Given amount of German immigrants that moved into Kingdom of Poland.

By the way BB do you recall what percentage of the pre-war territory German lost to Poland?
Vlad1234 14 | 570
7 Sep 2019  #300
Did not Poles immigrated in large numbers till 1939 out of country? Only in US lives more than 11 mln. of Poles.


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