The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / History  % width posts: 86

Polish mathematicians who solved the Enigma machine


Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
20 Jun 2022 #61
It's crazy to say they don't receive credit.

Jon, who is the one that says they did not receive the credit, but let me illustrate
my side of the discussion. First, you are not the filter or a dispenser of the glory. The credit exists on its own merit; the Poles don't need you to ration perverted, twisted, manipulative Enigma truth. We don't need the crumbs, and we own the whole loaf of bread. Breaking the Enigma code was a significant factor in winning the war.

Our contribution was enormous deserving the "Amazon" of credit, not the rivulet crumbs you assigned to us. The truth from British sources is not the truth at all it is the effort to minimize our and maximize your (Johnny come lately) part. You point to a pile of crumbs and calling it full credit is pathetic at best
jon357 71 | 20,468
20 Jun 2022 #62
who is the one that says they did not receive the credit,

Read the thread.

Breaking the Enigma code was a significant factor in winning the war.

They didn't though, did they. As mentioned earlier in the thread, two mathematicians calculated how the rotors were wired. That system was changed in 1939.

And back then in the 30's, Poland did not have any state of the art equipment (computers

Did anyone?
johnny reb 33 | 7,332
20 Jun 2022 #63
If it wasn't for Poland, the Enigma would have never been cracked.
Everyone else gave up on it except Poland.
Poland finally cracked it so Poland therefore deserves the credit as many historians agree.
A memorial to Marian Rejewski, the mathematician who first broke Enigma and educated the British and French about Polish methods of cryptanalysis
Here joun, educate yourself on the subject.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine
jon357 71 | 20,468
20 Jun 2022 #64
Everyone else gave up on it except Poland

Good that Bletchley Park didn't.

As you were told, the two Polish mathematicians figured out how the machine rotors were wired. Before the system was changed.

A memorial to Marian Rejewski

Yes, I posted about that several days ago.
Bobko 11 | 1,007
20 Jun 2022 #65
Good that Bletchley Park didn't.

Pity, however, that Chuchill judged it not necessary to share the work of Bletchley Park with his ally, Russia. Another example of the reprehensible behaviour of perfidious Albion.

Thankfully men of conscience, like John Cairncross, ensured that we received the information in a timely manner. Later, it was revealed that some information was on Stalin's desk sooner even that it had reached the War Office.
Lenka 3 | 2,765
20 Jun 2022 #66
Another example of the reprehensible behaviour of perfidious Albion.

Considered how you were Hitler's pal at the beginning it's a wonder you got it at all....
jon357 71 | 20,468
20 Jun 2022 #67
Pity, however, that Chuchill judged it not necessary to share the work of Bletchley Park with his ally, r*ssia.

No pity at all. A greater pity that the r*ssians were spying on the UK.

A very good thing that the Soviet leadership were so paranoid that they disregarded their own spy's reports.

Cairncross,

A traitor.

r*ssia seems to specialise in spying on people.

They always get unmasked in the end.
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
20 Jun 2022 #68
You're still pretending to ignore the huge amount of work at Bletchley

No one is ignoring the work done at Bletchley. They should be proud of their work, but that comes after code-breaking by Polish mathematicians and Enigma delivery to the British intelligence. Jon, take all the credit you want but don't try to convince us that you were improving Enigma before we deliver it to you, knowing your arrogance, maybe before Enigma was invented
jon357 71 | 20,468
20 Jun 2022 #69
should be proud of their work,

They were, since they cracked the codes. And they could never discuss it; many died before their role was known.

but that comes after code-breaking by Polish mathematicians

The two mathematicians figured out how the rotors were wired (on the three-rotor Luftwaffe system).The Germans were aware of the flaw and added another rotor in January 1939. This has been covered in this thread. Nobody figured it out for the kriegsmarine system until Turing (who invented computers).became involved.

Turing also figured out the more complicated and very different Japanese machines.

I wonder if you imagine that the messages came out in plain text? They still had to be decrypted even after the means of mechanical transmission was known. This was done by humans.

all the credit you want

I don't take credit since I want involved, just as you weren't since neither of us was born then. Very few people who worked there are still alive and most had to take their secrets to the grave.
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
20 Jun 2022 #70
Nobody figured it out for the kriegsmarine system until Turing (who invented computers).became involved.

Americans did after they captured the German submarine, but that was after we broke the Enigma Code. Later improvements were significant but not nearly as important as original code braking.

Jon, you are not suggesting that the invention of a model T was possible without inventing the wheel?::))
jon357 71 | 20,468
20 Jun 2022 #71
broke the Enigma Code.

'You' didn't. Though some mathematicians from Poland figured out how the rotors were wired. For this they are given much credit. Or have been since both the secretive PRL ended and the world-changing role of Bletchley Park, especially hut 8, became known.

Later improvements were significant but not nearly as important

They changed it substantially then replaced it with a different and far more complex system,the Lorenz machine. As you know.

inventing the wheel?

Something which independently evolved in different periods on different continents. The Model T Ford was however as regressive as its unpleasant producer.
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
20 Jun 2022 #72
Was changed in 1939. Already mentioned in this thread.

No Jon, The British, got the code and Enigma; they disrespectfully removed the original code breakers from the inner circles thinking they no longer needed them, in other words, dumped. That's when the Germans drop the "bomb" by changing Enigma. Brits tried their hardest but could not crack the improved Enigma and were forced to bring Polish mathematicians back. They broke the codes again. End of the story, the rest are just details
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
21 Jun 2022 #73
argue my findings so I copy and pasted just enough for you to find it and post it. lol

I fail to understand Joun's logic. How in the world do copy and past changes anything. Truth is the truth, even copy-pasted. Or you should have to ask Jon's permission before posting, make sure that sources other than British are permitted. You should be commended for the effort and the job well done.

The lowbrow popular history page? The one you copied here word for word without referencing?

So what, Jon, what is the problem? Truth is the truth; who cares if it is pasted?

With tremendous help from the USA, you Brits have done a hell of a job and deserve gratitude and credit. Bask in the glory, at the same time, give the credit where it belongs.
johnny reb 33 | 7,332
21 Jun 2022 #74
Poland deserves all the credit for breaking the codes since it was Polish brilliance that did it.
We will never know how many lives they saved.

I fail to understand Joun's logic.

There is none.
Joun wants to point out that we copy and paste (to save time) to try to diminish and shame us for doing it.
Paulina likes to point that out too for the same reason. Pffffft !
BFD !
It makes it tuff for them to argue with googled Wiki.
The more they point it out, the more I do it just to watch them rant and have a meltdown.
jon357 71 | 20,468
21 Jun 2022 #75
disrespectfully removed the origina

The two mathematicians?

They were in Vichy France.

Brits tried their hardest but could not crack the improved Enigma

Actually they did, as you know. And the Lorenz machine.

were forced to bring Polish mathematicians back

They moved to England in 1943 however they weren't "brougt back" as well you know. They worked for the Polish Army doing something else. That is covered early in this thread.

If you're going to try to troll, at least try to stick close to facts. Rather than just making things up.

Otherwise you just make a fool of yourself.
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
21 Jun 2022 #76
The Model T Ford was however as regressive as its unpleasant producer.

Yeah, but to be legitimate, it needed wheels; the rest of your post I dismiss as a work of slippery serpent:::)))
jon357 71 | 20,468
21 Jun 2022 #77
legitimate

Not very legitimate given the degree of exploitation involved. In this case however there wad none: just cooperation between four countries with Bletchley very much in the lead.

rest of your post I dismiss

Feel free. Nothing but accuracy there.

slippery serpent

Like those too, do you...
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
21 Jun 2022 #78
The Model T Ford was however as regressive as its unpleasant producer.

Otherwise you just make a fool of yourself.

Now I reverse your statement and apply it to you. Do you see how it fits like a glove? Reread our entire discussion, look hard in the mirror, and there are your answers.
johnny reb 33 | 7,332
21 Jun 2022 #79
Brillant Ptak but I am afraid that Slippery will deny that too.
Poland desrves all the credit as others gave up on it, PERIOD !
Without Polands perseverance it would have never been cracked.
Hats off to Poland for cracking the Enigma !
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
21 Jun 2022 #80
Not very legitimate given the degree of exploitation involved.

More from a slippery serpent. Class struggle and exploitation were not a part of the discussion. Don't forget, for the potential of being exploited, and any applicant would gladly give a left testicle for a chance of a job at Ford.
jon357 71 | 20,468
21 Jun 2022 #81
Class struggle

Rzewuski was after all a loyal communist who returned to the PRL despite excellent offers of work in Western Europe and elsewhere. Turing was no conservative either.

any applicant would gladly give a left testicle

The tired and hungry maybe.

my birthday

Happy Birthday!
Przelotnyptak1 - | 272
22 Jun 2022 #82
Happy Birthday!

I don't see myself thanking you for wishing me a happy birthday. Thank you much for the nice gesture, even coming from a Slippery Jon::))
amiga500 2 | 1,377
23 Jun 2022 #83
@jon et all
have you guys read Enigma by Robert Harris?, cracking historical novel by a world class author.
jon357 71 | 20,468
23 Jun 2022 #84
Enigma by Robert Harris?, cracking historical novel by a world class author.

It was a good book and a good film. It hardly mentioned Turing or cryptanalysis (to be fair to the author, much was still classified information at that time) and was more about spies who were spying on the project and other spies who were spying on them (plus love and sex between them) however the book is worth reading (it was at number one in the best sellers list) and the film is worth watching.

Someone posted a grumpy review, perhaps written online by someone, probably a yank, who thought the film should have been a documentary rather than a spy thriller.

But no one would join one enemy against the other. It was impossible

Google Mieczysław Kosmówki
amiga500 2 | 1,377
23 Jun 2022 #85
and was more about spies who were spying on the project and other spies who were spying on them

Well one can say Robert Harris is the spiritual descendent of John Le Carre and that is why I love him for it, plus it did describe the mathematics and concepts of the enigma rotors etc.
jon357 71 | 20,468
23 Jun 2022 #86
John Le Carre

I like his books.

Harris too Not so much the Roman ones however the spy books are good and his recent one The Second Sleep is excellent.

plus it did describe the mathematics and concepts of the enigma rotors etc.

Yes. More so in the book than the film for practical reasons. The film was beautifully done but didn't really go into the science.


Home / History / Polish mathematicians who solved the Enigma machine
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.