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So called "inconvenient parts" of Polish history - what do you think?


JonnyM 11 | 2,620
27 Jun 2011 #121
those Poles for a most part were traitors

In your opinion. The fact remains that there was support for communism in Poland before 1989. And elections won afterwards by the reformed communist party.
hubabuba - | 113
27 Jun 2011 #122
before the war communism in Poland had much lower support(if any)than in Western Europe.
The elections in 1989 were won by almost 100% by solidarity, what are You talking about then?about Kwaśniewski?dont You see a difference between communists and his party?You are using words You dont understand my dear, and learn a little bit about the situation at that time why he was chosen, surely not because he was ex communist, how can You oversimplify things when it comes to history?

In your opinion

not, only to his opinion, it is according to the law-the communist goverment was not a legal one, but again pointing out the number of communist party members Your are oversimplifying things,
OP Ironside 50 | 11,122
27 Jun 2011 #123
In your opinion.

Yes, in my opinion. However my opinion is based on an unquestionable principle that states being colonies or pupped states cannot be hold responsible or accountable for actions of their respective governing bodies as if they would had been independent states.

The fact remains that there was support for communism in Poland before 1989.

What support ? Scum and traitors, opportunist and a sad souls born in enslavement and knowing no better?
You know that Red Army lived Poland in the early 90'. That Soviet Poland was a police state run by the regime answerable and controlled by the Kremlin. So, who really did support that :

a. a traitor
b. a fool

And elections won afterwards by the reformed communist party.

These elections was won because commies were left free to roam about Scott free and grab a large chunk of the state property.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
27 Jun 2011 #124
ou are using words You dont understand my dear, and learn a little bit about the situation at that time why he was chosen, surely not because he was ex communist, how can You oversimplify things when it comes to history?

Perhaps a little more than you. The fact remains that the PRL enjoyed support within Poland and the successor to the PZPR enjoys support today. You are twisting facts to avoid an inconvenient truth.

not, only to his opinion, it is according to the law-the communist goverment was not a legal one

It was legal and recognised as such by the international community.

but again pointing out the number of communist party members Your are oversimplifying things,

Or being precise and accurate. Over 10% of Poles belonged to the PZPR, whether you like it or not.
Harry
27 Jun 2011 #125
before the war communism in Poland had much lower support(if any)than in Western Europe.

Really? So in which country did the respective communist party have more members of Parliament: Poland or the UK?

according to the law-the communist goverment was not a legal one

Why do you bother with such lies? Under Polish law of the time the government was perfectly legal.
Marynka11 4 | 676
27 Jun 2011 #126
The elections in 1989 were won by almost 100% by solidarity, what are You talking about then?about Kwaśniewski?dont You see a difference between communists and his party?You are using words You dont understand my dear, and learn a little bit about the situation at that time why he was chosen, surely not because he was ex communist, how can You oversimplify things when it comes to history?

There many more names. Let's not deny it. Leszek Miller, Jozef Oleksy, Krzysztof Janik, to name a few ad hoc.

And the SLD won by a landslide in 2001.
hubabuba - | 113
27 Jun 2011 #127
Perhaps a little more than you.

want to elaborate?

The fact remains that the PRL enjoyed support within Poland . You are twisting facts to avoid an inconvenient truth.

Or being precise and accurate. Over 10% of Poles belonged to the PZPR, whether you like it or not.

please, do tell where I twisted the facts?I wouldnt call it support- people were born and raised in that system, if You talk to older generation they will tell You that noone believed there can be sth else, how would You see it?how people should oppose in Your opinion?if I lived during communism I might have joined the party out of pragmatism,it is like You said that North Korea's goverment enjoys a great support,

successor to the PZPR enjoys support today

successor o PZPR in what respect?

It was legal and recognised as such by the international community.

I dont want to open the pandora box and start talk about the Western betrayal, and the goverments that recognised, imposed Polish goverment. when the legal one was in London. Kaczorowski handed insignia of presidential power to Wałęsa?aint I right?if You call a goverment imposed by another country a legal one then it is Your problem

Harry please I am trying to ignore You and Your stupidity, I already explained that I dont see a sensein talking with You as You are biased and You are lying
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
27 Jun 2011 #128
imposed Polish goverment. when the legal one was in London.

The legal one was actually in Warsaw, under international law, Polish law and force majeur.

Furthermore, the left enjoyed plenty of support even before the war, and enjoys plenty of support now.
hubabuba - | 113
27 Jun 2011 #129
ok JonnyM I will take my books and give the exact details of "support" before the war
as for now again please elaborate
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
27 Jun 2011 #130
I honestly wouldn't trust your 'books', however a poster above pointed out the existence of Communist deputies in parliament, and the left has a healthy showing in every level of election today.
Harry
27 Jun 2011 #131
I dont want to open the pandora box and start talk about the Western betrayal

Not that load of old cobblers yet again! Do I really need to remind you again what Article IX of the Potsdam Declaration said?

the goverments that recognised, imposed Polish goverment.

You mean the one which included the former Prime Minister of the govt in exile?

when the legal one was in London.

Not under any law in 1945 it wasn't.

Harry please I am trying to ignore You and Your stupidity, I already explained that I dont see a sensein talking with You as You are biased and You are lying

Could you perhaps point out some of my lies? I am always very happy to point out your lies.

I note that you have completely ignored my question about in which country did the respective communist party have more members of Parliament: Poland or the UK. I wonder why you would want to ignore that, could it be because we both know the answer?
hubabuba - | 113
27 Jun 2011 #132
Could you perhaps point out some of my lies?

so You are not denying being biased?
Harry
27 Jun 2011 #133
I've yet to meet even a single person who is not biased in some way.

Personally I am, for example, very biased against plastic 'Poles' who bring disgrace on Poland by telling their pathetic lies and spewing their racist filth. And no I'm not talking about you there (although I am biased against people who lie about Polish history and who lie about and what I say, and yes I am talking about you with that bit).
hubabuba - | 113
27 Jun 2011 #134
There many more names. Let's not deny it. Leszek Miller, Jozef Oleksy, Krzysztof Janik, to name a few ad hoc.

yes, but WHY were they elected?because they were excommies?since 2002 we have the Communist Party of Poland however I dont see much support...

Furthermore, the left enjoyed plenty of support even before the war,

KPRP and later KPP was illegal under Polish law since 1919,

in 1922 communists under the name "Związek Proletariatu Miast i Wsi"- gained 2 mandates,
in 1928 - different communist parties-829416 votes,
in 1930 -286 612 votes

so tell me again what support are You talking about?
Marynka11 4 | 676
27 Jun 2011 #135
yes, but WHY were they elected?because they were excommies

I believe that people's choices are mainly motivated by pragmatism, not by ideology. There are people who had good lives in the PRL. They would entrust the same people running the country again.
Harry
27 Jun 2011 #136
n 1928 - different communist parties - 829416 votes,

Given that slightly less than half of those able to vote did so, if we assume that communists were equally evenly represented as other groups in those who did not vote, that makes considerably more than one and a half million communists in Poland. So much for your claim that there wasn't much support!
hubabuba - | 113
27 Jun 2011 #137
Personally I am, for example, very biased against plastic 'Poles' who bring disgrace on Poland.

Harry let Poles decide who bring disgrace on their country, ok?if I llearned Polish history by Your posts I would view it as a bloodthirsty warmonger,who attack all its neighbour out of greed, but when they attack Poland it is fine. We fought communism just so we could install it few years later. Poland is a country whose people kill Jews for hobby(if there are no Jews around we can kill anybody else-we are not biased in that), we are never right and we did nothing right, and if We had any decency in ourselves we would commit a collective suicicde.

I might not agree with many thing they write but at least their intentions are good, and They want sth good for this country.

You being biased is exactly the problem, how can You have a conversation about history if You are biased?it is so easy to take some random sentence or incident out of context and then trying to prove by it Your truth, You are not looking at the whole picture but the one element that suits You, and thats why I see talking with You as fruitless
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
28 Jun 2011 #138
There many more names. Let's not deny it. Leszek Miller, Jozef Oleksy, Krzysztof Janik, to name a few ad hoc.

Very true. The thing is that both of these clowns would otherwise claim that for example Kwasniewski is a perfect democrat, a great European politician etc. and his opponents are "Polish fascists/antisemits/homophobes" etc. These koonts use SLD only now to support their idiotic claim that a large part of Polish society supported communism.

Given that slightly less than half of those able to vote did so, if we assume that communists were equally evenly represented as other groups in those who did not vote

Yes, let's assume that people who didn't vote were supporters of communists, Harry's "logic" :) Old prick, come on :))
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
29 Jun 2011 #139
Kwasniewski is a perfect democrat, a great European politician

That part is certainly true, and election results show that the Polish electorate do not want the religious right-wing to be in power.

Paid back your share of Poland's generous EU subsidy yet, as you said you would?
Harry
29 Jun 2011 #140
Yes, let's assume that people who didn't vote were supporters of communists, Harry's "logic" :) Old prick, come on :))

So your stance is that not a single person who didn't vote was a communist supporter? Well that is highly likely, isn't it. In fact it is much more likely to accurate than the assumption that communist supporters were the same percentage of those who did not vote as they were the percentage of those who did vote.

Although I note from your personal abuse that you realise that you're going to lose this one and so instead try to provoke me into responding in kind. Yawn.
JulietEcho 3 | 100
30 Jun 2011 #141
There were no signing-up to being German.

- Sadly, even first paragraph of Wikipedia says otherwise. Or have you heard it from the "usual source of yours". The nameless british solder, who contrary to what his british gov. openly manifested, fought for Polish independence? The same one who reported Waffen SS corp being full of Polish solders?

Name the one who pays you to write all this nonsense with manic stubbornness's.

british gov. openly manifested

- Correction. British gov. never openly manifested not supporting Poland, or not supporting Poland's independence. "Just smile and keep waving" when you need them and back stab them when you don't. Typical anglo-saxon school.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
30 Jun 2011 #142
That part is certainly true, and election results show that the Polish electorate do not want the religious right-wing to be in power.

Yep, there's been a clear rejection throughout the years. In fact, almost every party in power has had roots in socialism - as far as I can tell, the religious vote is only around 10% in Poland. Far more significant is the "moustache" faction - with - surprise - roots in socialism.

Never understood why so many people in Poland deny that the country is fundamentally socialist. Even the current government contains quite a few socialists who would never join the SLD for ideological reasons.
Harry
30 Jun 2011 #143
Sadly

Hi liar. Been down to Krakow to put flowers and candles on the graves of the men you claimed didn't exist? Sadly not? You really are utterly pathetic.

Wikipedia says

The problem with Wikipedia is that anybody can edit it, including Polish liars like you.

The nameless british solder, who contrary to what his british gov. openly manifested, fought for Polish independence?

Nameless? Try 'Lt. John Ward' as just one single example. But of course you will deny that he even existed.

British gov. never openly manifested not supporting Poland, or not supporting Poland's independence. "Just smile and keep waving" when you need them and back stab them when you don't.

Could you perhaps go into detail about this 'stab in the back'? I so often hear Polish liars like you banging on and on and on about the supposed 'stab in the back' but whenever I ask for details, none are forthcoming. Perhaps you could go into detail as to exactly what Britain could have done between September 1939 and May 1945 to help Poland but did not do? But I somehow think that I'll be waiting for your detailed reply for as long as I'll be waiting for you to make good the promise you made here, namely "The first grave you will (miraculously) find I will drive to and plant flowers and light some candles", i.e. for the rest of eternity.

unlike your gay ass I stand behind my words.

Just another lie from just another Polish liar.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
1 Jul 2011 #144
Perhaps you could go into detail as to exactly what Britain could have done between September 1939 and May 1945 to help Poland but did not do?

How, About Britain & France could have attacked Germany in september 1939 which would have made Germany have to regroup back into Germany.
& that would have likely won WW2 alot quicker.

But, England supported Germany in the Silesian Uprisings.

Personally I think England just get's off on other people's misery.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
1 Jul 2011 #145
likely won WW2 alot quicker.

How about a yankee know nothing,who's country only went to war AFTER hitler declared war against them in late 1941 just shuts the feck up?
pawian 178 | 15,520
6 Jun 2021 #146
I know nothing about Poles in SS

Neither do I.
But you forgot to mention the so called Blue Police - Polish pre-war police force kept by German occupiers. Their role is dubious - some belonged to the underground and obtained useful info about Germans or helped to save imprisoned patriots. But others didn`t act so decently and e.,g they took part in the Holocaust.
OP Ironside 50 | 11,122
6 Jun 2021 #147
Blue Police

So, what? Who cares at the stage?
pawian 178 | 15,520
6 Jun 2021 #148
How can you be so inconsistent? Isn`t the controvercial issue of the Blue Police covered by the topic of your thread? Inconvenient parts of Polish history??
OP Ironside 50 | 11,122
6 Jun 2021 #149
Isn`t the controvercial issue o

How long ago it was? Ten years? Let leave it for historians to dwell on some ambiguous details that doesn't really matter.
Those issues are political nowadays anyway and won't be decided by some pointless debates about history.
Anyway those are not controversial just some like to stir people by claiming that this or that is controversial.
OR it is about politic and ideologically biased narrative ....
pawian 178 | 15,520
6 Jun 2021 #150
Those issues are political nowadays anyway

Yes, PIS and other rightards made them political by denying and rejecting most inconvenient parts in Polish history.
But, does it mean we can`t discuss them??? Of course not. Try to stay away from PiS sick narrative and think independently.


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