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So called "inconvenient parts" of Polish history - what do you think?


Sokrates 8 | 3,346
16 Jun 2011 #61
I agree that information from Wikipedia has to be taken with a grain of salt

No, its to be taken as absolutely worthless.

but in this case the whole article was full of links to the sources from which the quotes were taken.

These sources are mostly rubbish as well for several reasons, they do not account for Gestapo and SS members nor german police and german citizens who were killed for participating in genocide and atrocities on Poles.

They do not differentiate between casualities inflicted by Poles and Russians.

In other words they deliberately mask the whole truth in a disgustingly revisionist manner.

but do you really want to argue that all sources are only there to put Poland in a bad light?

More to the point they're not to put Poland in a bad light but to put Germany in a good light. The dry facts are that the vast majority of german civilians who died were killed as punishment for proven acts of genocide, theft or expulsion of Poles and they deserved it but by putting all the deaths in one bag the anglo-saxon authors as well as Germans attempt to revise the picture and paint Poles as murderers rather than avengers.

What they paint as genocide was wartime justice, nothing more.

Reasons to that are in the early 50s when Poland was communist and therefore smeared in sh*t as with all easter bloc countries, Germans themselves took to it instantly attempting to revise their history of genocide by a smear campaign against the Poles which continues to this day in the west by simple principle of a thing put in motion decades ago.

Post #24:
"Every time there is even the slightest criticism of Poland, you can bet that someone will either respond with a personal insult or answer with a "but".".
You are a perfect example... :)

Not at all, you're biased against Poland and will attempt to twist the facts to point in the direction you want and the direction you want is to make Poland look bad regardless of the topic at hand, you believe Poles deserve less and will attempt to prove so by lies and underhanded rhetoric every time.
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #62
More like Polish people were detained & died in the GERMAN concentration camp of £ambinowice.

And then Poles used it to detain and kill German people. Learn a little about the history of the land you claim to represent.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
16 Jun 2011 #63
The Polish trait of denying everything, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, has a lot to answer for.

Same reason the Russians get roundly mocked by those in the West - same absolute inability to accept responsibility.

Heck, even Serbs and Croats are dreadful for this. Maybe it's just a Slavic thing?

Yes, English people deny that the Irish Potato Famine was a genocide they created.

I would say it is more of a Western European thing to try to scape goat Russians & Other Slavs.

To make Slavs look worse & take the pressures away from Western European crimes to humanity.

When in reality much of the Russian Atrocities didn't even happen completely due to Russians.

Like Stalin the Georgian, German blooded Russian Tsars. Jewish Communists, Half Volga German lenin, Jew Lazar Kaganovich behind the Holodomor.
Jew Yagoba who setup the Gulag system.
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #64
Yes, English people deny that the Irish Potato Famine was a genocide they created.

I would say it is more of a Western European thing to try to scape goat Russians & Other Slavs.

And out comes another of the classic Polish approaches to history: when you can't blame the Jews, blame the British.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
16 Jun 2011 #65
Not at all, you're biased against Poland and will attempt to twist the facts to point in the direction you want and the direction you want is to make Poland look bad regardless of the topic at hand, you believe Poles deserve less and will attempt to prove so by lies and underhanded rhetoric every time.

Hey, that counts as a personal insult. Quod erat demonstrandum... ;)

Maybe Palivec was right?
So called "inconvenient parts" of Polish history - what do you think?
Marynka11 4 | 675
16 Jun 2011 #66
I've just provided you with a photograph of a Polish SS volunteer

Ok, so we are up to 2 Polish SS. Still 19,998 missing, given that you claim that one in 5 of the 100,000 was SS.
Even if we get up to 300, it's nothing worth arguing about for 3 days.

that is almost as pathetic as your claim that Dachau was not a concentration camp.

Where did I say it? You are hallucinating.
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #67
Yes, I mean the British only betrayed Poland in Potsdam & Yalta by letting Poles be engulfed in Soviets with Poles instantly going into Gulags due to Potsdam & Yalta.

Excellent stuff. Sadly though it was actually agreed that in Poland there would be free and fair elections, so there was no betrayal at all. But well done on dealing in classic Polish fashion with another inconvenient part of Polish history.

Then they repay us with Potsdam & Yalta?

Keep repeating that line, the facts still remain the same.

Then Brits hide Wladyslaw Sikorski's death from Poland?

Here's a picture of his secret funeral:

And here is the tiny announcement which sneaked past the British:

tiny.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
16 Jun 2011 #68
Western Europeans make up so much non sense. You wonder why many of us hate you?

You and who else???
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
16 Jun 2011 #69
It isn't like any Pole today can shoulder the blame nor take credit for what their ancestors committed or accomplished.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385
16 Jun 2011 #70
PolskiMoc,

The next personal insult will get you suspended..... yet again.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
16 Jun 2011 #71
Brits kept the documents of Wladyslaw Sikorski's death away from the Poles.

That is the rapayment for Poles helping you in the Battle of the Britain?

Oh but Brits always say they saved Poles. NO 9 months after Nazis Invaded Brits will still sucking spotted dick & The French were still blowing on Frog legs instead of helping Poland.

Where was the vote for Poles to vote against being taken over by Soviets in Potsdam & Yalta?
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #72
given that you claim that one in 5 of the 100,000 was SS.

So you've realised that you've lost this one. Or is there another reason why you lie so tragically about what I said? It was actually "one in fifty".

Where did I say it? You are hallucinating.

You claimed that the Polish concentration camps were not concentration camps because they were run by Poles for Poles: Dachau was run by Germans for Germans and so, in your tiny mind, was not a concentration camp.

Oh, sorry, I forgot that it wasn't run by Poles and so you feel no compulsion to lie about that bit of history.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
16 Jun 2011 #73
PolskiMoc: More like Polish people were detained & died in the GERMAN concentration camp of £ambinowice.
And then Poles used it to detain and kill German people. Learn a little about the history of the land you claim to represent.

Show me a single source of the £ambinowice camp being used by Poles against Germans?

All I can find is the £ambinowice camp. being used by Germans against Poles & the French.
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #74
That is the rapayment for Poles helping you in the Battle of the Britain?

No, your repayment included the Warsaw Uprising, in which several times more British airmen fought than the number of Poles who took part in the Battle of Britain.

Where was the vote for Poles to vote against being taken over by Soviets in Potsdam & Yalta?

"This Polish Provisional Government of National Unity shall be pledged to the holding of free and unfettered elections as soon as possible on the basis of universal suffrage and secret ballot. In these elections all democratic and anti-Nazi parties shall have the right to take part and to put forward candidates." That is what the British and Americans agreed to.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
16 Jun 2011 #75
Show me a single source of the £ambinowice camp being used by Poles against Germans?

"A transit camp, run by the Ministry of Internal Security and commanded by Czesław Gęborski (later put on trial for crimes against humanity for his actions in the camp), was also created nearby, serving as an internment, labor and resettlement camp for German Silesians,[2] as a "verification" point for Silesians,[2] as well as a camp for former veterans of the Anders' Polish II Corps, whom the new communist authorities of Poland saw as dangerous. Out of 8000[3] internees, it is estimated that between 1000 and 1,500 German civilians died in the camp,[2][3][4] mostly by typhus and maltreatment[2] from camp officials."

/wiki/%C5%81ambinowice
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #76
Show me a single source of the £ambinowice camp being used by Poles against Germans?

Accused of crimes against humanity 82 -year-old Czeslaw Gęborski , former commandant of the camp for displaced after the war Silesians , did not live to judgment. He died in the last year .

He was the commander of the camp in £ambinowice when he was 20 years old and was a sergeant MO . According to the Prosecutor's Office were imprisoned inhabitants of whole villages county niemodlińskiego after that, in their homes could settle repatriates from the East. Silesians taken away belongings , fed stale bread and rotten potatoes ...

PolskiMoc 4 | 324
16 Jun 2011 #77
No, your repayment included the Warsaw Uprising, in which several times more British airmen fought than the number of Poles who took part in the Battle of Britain.

All of this would have not happened if Westerners had followed the great Josef Pilsudski who was the first to stand up to Soviets in the Polish Soviet war.

Pilsudski also wanted Poland & France to attack Nazis in 1933 as a preventive war.

Now, If The west had helped Poland in the Polish Soviet war then we could have eliminated the Soviet threat.

IF Westerners had helped Poland & France take out Nazis in 1933.

We could have saved like 100 + million European lives.

But, Yet, Still in 1939 the French & English were too cowardly to attack the Nazis. If France & England had attacked Germany when Germany was invading Poland it would have taken the Nazis out.

But, Personally I think everything is a big game to Western Europeans you get off on Controlling & Weakening nations like Poland.

A way of getting rid of the competiton.

"Out of 8000 internees, it is estimated that between 1000 and 1,500 German civilians died in the camp, mostly by typhus and maltreatment from camp officials."

Good Germans deserve to die.

it should be a crime against humanity to let a single German live.
Marynka11 4 | 675
16 Jun 2011 #78
So you've realised that you've lost this one.

I gave it to you. Enjoy your little victory.

Or is there another reason why you lie so tragically about what I said? It was actually "one in fifty ".

(You still didn't produce the evidence for 498 to be completely clear.)

Dachau was run by Germans for Germans

According to Wiki on the camp in Dachau (which conveniently today became a reliable source of information): "The camp was originally designed for holding German political prisoners and Jews."
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #79
But, Yet, Still in 1939 the French & English were too cowardly to attack the Nazis.

And yet another classic Polish approach to an inconvenient part of their history!

OK, I'll ask the question which is never ever answered: exactly what could Britain have done in 1939 to help Poland which it did not do? I look forward to seeing you dance all round the question.
OP Ironside 50 | 10,910
16 Jun 2011 #80
Well, that is only YOURspeculationsso far Harry !
Nobody is stopping you from hiring some historian to research that subject!

But to Polish sources he is Belorussian. What was I saying about denial?

Not only Polish sources but also German. Let say, he was Polish - so what ?

A few hundred actually, but that fact is also inconvenient, let's sweep it away.

That a few clearly shows your bias and prejudice sunshine, two hundred. There was documentary in Polish TV about that, few years ago. So, your claim about sweeping it away is burst

The term "concentration camp" was used by contemporary media to describe the camps in question. But it is easier to simply deny that fact.

What fact? The fact that before WWII there was political prison in Poland, and if you want to call it concentration camp to maliciously bring connotations with German camps from the times of WWII.

Sure, all you did was ban their language, close their schools, close their churches, close their libraries, close their reading rooms, ban their organisations

Not that bad, considering times and circumstances - maybe not nice and I do not condone that but not that bad. Once again, nobody denies that, well nobody is going about it round the clock, but your claim that it is not dealt with is empty and invalid.

ban their organisations and send anybody who objected too loudly to a concentration camp. None of that is bad!

Yes, terrorist organizations or organizations closely associated with terrorists !

The fact is that there were several. But it is easier to deny again.

Several ? When? After WWII camps was run by Soviets and traitors. Poles were in those camps as the victims along with others !

Really? Could you be so kind as to point out the US law which said that Jews could only sit on certain benches in universities?

Fine, but those practices () started in 1937 and there hardly been time to implement them before 1939. Again, hardly a secret, some do goodies and other pussies ram that down our throats every now and then, probably because it was about Jews. Hardly a big deal considering.As for others countries (not that it matters):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus_in_the_United_States

The Blue Police perhaps

Police was OK!

The Świętokrzyżka brigade maybe?

They were doing a good job !
Harry, what is your issue ? Time to confess:)
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
16 Jun 2011 #81
France & Britain together could have invaded Germany in 1939 while Germany was busy fighting Poland. It would have been like Normandy in 1939 & would have ended the war.

The Nazis were a threat. Pilsudski attacked Soviets not Russians.
Pilsudski wanted to Attack Nazis not Germans.

Pilsudski was in control of Poland long before 1933. He knew Hitler & the Nazis were scum & He wanted to prevent WW2 from happening.

Oh but I forget alot of Banks in Britain & Alot of Westerners actually helped fund & empower the Nazis.
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #82
I gave it to you.

Well, by continually lying, you pretty much did.

According to Wiki on the camp in Dachau (which conveniently today became a reliable source of information): "The camp was originally designed for holding German political prisoners and Jews."

And those Jews were French? Belgian? British? Or were they German?

Oh sorry, I forgot that if you admit that Jews could be German, it'll mean you'd have to concede that Jews could also be Polish.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
16 Jun 2011 #83
Show me a single source of the £ambinowice camp being used by Poles against Germans?

"Bloodlands", Timothy Snyder. Over 6000 German citizens were murdered there.
By 1947 over 7 million German citizens were deported from Poland, from the "recovered territories" = Germany.
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #84
France & Britain together could have invaded Germany in 1939 while Germany was busy fighting Poland.

Well done, but I asked you what Britain could have done. I'd like to know precisely where they should have attacked and with precisely what. I look forward to yet more evasion from you.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
16 Jun 2011 #85
"Bloodlands", Timothy Snyder. Over 6000 German citizens were murdered there.
By 1947 over 7 million German citizens were deported from Poland, from the "recovered territories" = Germany.

Awesome 70 million Germans should have been deported there & killed.

Germans don't deserve the right to exist after what they did.

Soviets went way too easy on them.

Soviets & Poles together should have shot & killed every German in site much like Germans did when they invaded our nations.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
16 Jun 2011 #86
Pilsudski wanted to Attack Nazis not Germans.

Pilsudski was in control of Poland long before 1933. He knew Hitler & the Nazis were scum & He wanted to prevent WW2 from happening.

I guess you are US and therefore have no idea about history.
Piłsudski came back to Poland in 1918.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
16 Jun 2011 #87
Soviets & Poles together should have shot & killed every German in site much like Germans did when they invaded our nations.

Who invaded Poland in 1939 once again?
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #88
What fact? The fact that before WWII there was political prison in Poland, and if you want to call it concentration camp

It was called a concentration camp at the time and that is what it was.

Yes, terrorist organizations or organizations closely associated with terrorists !

Any proof? Oh, sorry, of course not.

After WWII camps was run by Soviets and traitors.

Deny, deny, deny, and keep denying!

Police was OK!

Yes, rounding up Jews and packing them into cattle trucks off to the death camps was a perfectly acceptable thing to do. Oh, sorry, yet another inconvenient part of Polish history....
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
16 Jun 2011 #89
I guess you are US and therefore have no idea about history.
Piłsudski came back to Poland in 1918.

Yes & Pilsudski didn't want Poland & France to attack untill 1933 when the NAZIS took over.

Pilsudski knew that Nazis & Soviets were slime.

When Pilsudski invaded the Soviets he attacked Soviets.

Pilsudski could have destroyed the Soviets. This is still when the white Russian army were fighting the Soviets Pilsudski went to war with Soviets not White Russians.

He knew the Soviets & Nazis were slime. If Westerners had followed Pilsudski so many lives would have been saved.

But the Soviets sued for a Cease fire in the Polish Soviet war.

Yeah, IF the West had backed Poland we could have completely stomped out Soviets.

Oh but it was the German Government in WW1 who sent the Bolsheviks with supplies to Russia to destroy Russia with the Soviet Union.

Even U.S President Woodrow Wilson sent Leon Trotsky to Russia to create the Soviet Union.

IT is all a big joke. Western European slime purposefully creating mayhem because they are so vile, controlling & afraid of Slavs getting in the way.
Harry
16 Jun 2011 #90
Pilsudski could have destroyed the Soviets. This is still when the white Russian army were fighting the Soviets

But the Soviets sued for a Cease fire.

So we should blame Poland for allowing the USSR to exist. What an original version of history you tell!


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